I Am A Published Photographer

CaptainPenguin

CaptainPenguin

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Nigel Cliff
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For the first time I sent some of my West Midland League shots to the local paper,Wolverhampton Express And Star,and they were published last night,I wont get paid but I fell rather chuffed
 
CaptainPenguin said:
For the first time I sent some of my West Midland League shots to the local paper,Wolverhampton Express And Star,and they were published last night,I wont get paid but I fell rather chuffed
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You must insist on getting paid. Everytime an amateur gives pictures away for free - some freelancer somewhere is losing out - perhaps for ever.

My local paper has a greater number of 'submitted pictures' now than they used to - they'll happily publish pictures for free rather than sending a photographer out to cover the event. Eventually we all lose! Think about it.
 
awp said:
You must insist on getting paid. Everytime an amateur gives pictures away for free - some freelancer somewhere is losing out - perhaps for ever.

My local paper has a greater number of 'submitted pictures' now than they used to - they'll happily publish pictures for free rather than sending a photographer out to cover the event. Eventually we all lose! Think about it.
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Not wishing to take anything away from the OP, but to me, "published" means getting paid for it - otherwise it's just "the newspaper printed my photos for free" - which is not quite the same thing IMO...

As Andrew states - most papers will print anything if it's free - by getting paid, you have demonstrated not only that your images are worthy of publication but that your skills as a photographer warrant payment - that is the real achievement...
 
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I had an inkling of which direction this thread was going to head in...which is why I let someone else make the first reply! ;)

Sorry to destroy your sense of acheivement but as Arkady and AWP say, newspapers will print anything if its free...regardless of technical ability or how good a photo it is.

News guys have this happen all the time...you head out to get photos of something happening, process and send to a newspaper for a fee...and they turn around and say "no thanks...Joe Bloggs sent some from his phone for free so we'll use them". The photos in question from Mr Bloggs are pants. OOF, under-exposed, grainy, just generally horrid. But they're free...so they use them.

Did you ask for payment and get refused on the "no funds" route, or did you offer them for free?
 
jamesb84 said:
Did you ask for payment and get refused on the "no funds" route, or did you offer them for free?
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Latter i would imagine, now dont get me wrong, this is something i did myself but only the once, i got a hammering from US togs on Fred Miranda and quite rightly so.

Fact is all appers regardless of size and readership have a budget set aside for photography, if your pics are good enough they will pay, my first payment was £25 from a local "free" paper, not a lot but it adds up.

Truth is someone is losing money and if this sort of crap carries on every tog in the country will be working for nothing, someday that tog might be you.
 
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If they say they have no money, walk away. If they want the photos they will pay. Thats what I did. Reporter said "We don't pay for photos" I said "I don't give photos away" and walked out, only to be followed by the picture editor offering to pay.

They will try it on by saying they have no budget, They do!
 
If you look at the OP signature.. I doubt he asked or wanted to be paid.. so your wasting your time telling him to get paid.. he isn't a newbie and has been on the forums long enough to know .. His pics, His choice.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
For the first time I sent some of my West Midland League shots to the local paper,Wolverhampton Express And Star,and they were published last night,I wont get paid but I fell rather chuffed
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Congrats on getting your picture in the paper. :clap:


Telling it on here wasnt clever *** :(

there will be a lot of :dummy:
 
Derek_F said:
Telling it on here wasnt clever *** :(

there will be a lot of :dummy:
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I was wondering about that.. surely the responses where expected given the target audience? talk photogrpahy might have been better rather than shoving it right up sports photogrpahers noses?
 
KIPAX said:
If you look at the OP signature.. I doubt he asked or wanted to be paid.. so your wasting your time telling him to get paid.. he isn't a newbie and has been on the forums long enough to know .. His pics, His choice.
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Which is precisely why I didn't comment first. I saw the signature and had flashbacks to plenty of other threads where this came up.

As an aside though guys...I do a bit of IT Business Consulting on the side. I'm only an amateur and I do it for fun. But would any of you like to use my services? I'm free after all. Particularly interested in working in the Wolverhampton/Birmingham and West Bromwich areas.
 
KIPAX said:
I was wondering about that.. surely the responses where expected given the target audience? talk photogrpahy might have been better rather than shoving it right up sports photogrpahers noses?
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Also why the need to say straight off not paid.. why not just say published and no ones business if you got paid..

Seems to be a bit of a troll post this one :(
 
anniephoto said:
Well done you!
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You really don't get it do you? They'll publish anything if it's free - it's not the achievement you think it is. If he was paid then we'd know the pictures were worth publishing!
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Killjoy everybody has to start somewhere
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Personally I dont and have never have had an issue on tp with anyone getting published for free.. check my history... sometimes its a need to an end..

However your case seems to be different given your sig proclaiming you only take pics for fun and the way you have jumped into sports talk to tell all the sports photogrpahers you got published for free.. you made sure everyone knew it was for free and you made sure all the sports togs would know...

I take issue wiht the...rub there noses in it approach to be honest :(

If its part of a plan to eventualy get paid as your reply to awp suggests then tell us more?
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Killjoy everybody has to start somewhere
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Youre right Nigel everybody has to start somewhere, i did the same thing once but once only, because i said "no fee no photos" im now in a position where im approached for paid work, its not mega bucks but its paid for my gear over a couple of years and kept the bailiffs away from the door.

However, if i'd have continued to give stuff away where would i be now, probably still shooting with a 6 year old 10d and a manky beat up 70-300mm lens.

Getting paid gave me the chance to buy better equipment and also gave me the impetus to improve my technique.

As long as you give stuff away the likelyhood is your local paper will eventually lay off a staff photographer.
 
Dave Stone said:
If they say they have no money, walk away. If they want the photos they will pay. Thats what I did. Reporter said "We don't pay for photos" I said "I don't give photos away" and walked out, only to be followed by the picture editor offering to pay.

They will try it on by saying they have no budget, They do!
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But its not always the case... I was the only person with a pic of a little girl emptying her piggy bank at a football club in crisis to help the cause.. little girl from a very small town wiht a once a week paper... paper asks me for the pic and I offer it them for 10 quid which up here that size of publication is about right.. they said they wouldnt pay so i said i wouldnt supply..

they then sent a photogrpaher to the girls house and got her to pose with a footy scarf above her head.. they used that instead of paying 10quid for the better pic of her actually emptying the piggy bank at the game..

beggers belief but proves some will not pay even if they really want it.
 
It's a sad day when you can't do a bit photography for fun or is it just that TP is now becoming just a clique for photographers who earn money instead of getting encouragement for us lesser mortals.

Fair enough we all have a living to make regardlesss of occupation, but as the OP said in his sig he's "An Amateur I Take Photographs For Fun" so why slate him. for doing something he obviously enjoys.

If you can't be pleased for the guy being happy that he got some pics printed in his local paper for the first time in his hobby then don't respond. Do you give as much thought to tradesmen such as painters & decorators etc when it comes to repainting your living room...didn't think so after all you are doing the same to them.
 
frank said:
It's a sad day when you can't do a bit photography for fun or is it just that TP is now becoming just a clique for photographers who earn money instead of getting encouragement for us lesser mortals.

Fair enough we all have a living to make regardlesss of occupation, but as the OP said in his sig he's "An Amateur I Take Photographs For Fun" so why slate him. for doing something he obviously enjoys.

If you can't be pleased for the guy being happy that he got some pics printed in his local paper for the first time in his hobby then don't respond. Do you give as much thought to tradesmen such as painters & decorators etc when it comes to repainting your living room...didn't think so after all you are doing the same to them.
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As has been said several times now...no-one has anything against people doing photography for fun. I do photography for fun, surprising as that sounds.

As for not encouraging people...why do you think I wrote 2 tutorials on sports photography? For the good of my health? Come on now, we encourage as much as anyone else...if not more so in some ways.

However, this thread just reads like a big middle finger to the majority of photographers on here who do rely on sales to make ends meet.

If you wish to see TP as a clique for "higher mortals" as you put it...then fine, but you'll enjoy it a lot more if you see as what it actually is...a community of people, some of whom earn money and are concerned about their livelihoods being eroded.

To use your analogy...would you go onto a tradesmans web forum (if there is such a thing) and start a thread entitled "I Just Painted My Living Room"?

Didnt think so.
 
frank said:
It's a sad day when you can't do a bit photography for fun or is it just that TP is now becoming just a clique for photographers who earn money instead of getting encouragement for us lesser mortals.

Fair enough we all have a living to make regardlesss of occupation, but as the OP said in his sig he's "An Amateur I Take Photographs For Fun" so why slate him. for doing something he obviously enjoys.

If you can't be pleased for the guy being happy that he got some pics printed in his local paper for the first time in his hobby then don't respond.
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:agree:

People love the idea of getting a picture published, hell I do too...
Think about all the 'readers images' and 'readers portfolios' in magazines, they are all printed free and the buzz it gives you as a photographer is incredible.

Stop giving the OP a hard time and just be pleased for him - Lets not forget the reason we take photos is firstly for the LOVE OF PHOTOGRAPHY, to some people that is ALL that matters. They never have and never will care about the monetary side of their hobby - recognise that fact and just be pleased for them.
 
Snowball said:
:agree:

People love the idea of getting a picture published, hell I do too...
Think about all the 'readers images' and 'readers portfolios' in magazines, they are all printed free and the buzz it gives you as a photographer is incredible.

Stop giving the OP a hard time and just be pleased for him - Lets not forget the reason we take photos is firstly for the LOVE OF PHOTOGRAPHY, to some people that is ALL that matters. They never have and never will care about the monetary side of their hobby - recognise that fact and just be pleased for them.
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Clearly the OP does care about the monetary side of it...otherwise why mention that he didn't get paid?

He could have left out that part of his original post and this wouldn't have descended into this mess. The last sentance is just trolling for a reaction in a section which has already become the home of a lot of sports guys who are passionate about their jobs.
 
My 2p's worth - the original post including the not being paid part, coupled with his signature it seems he was looking for the reaction he's got. In my opinion, of course.
 
KIPAX said:
Personally I dont and have never have had an issue on tp with anyone getting published for free.. check my history... sometimes its a need to an end..

However your case seems to be different given your sig proclaiming you only take pics for fun and the way you have jumped into sports talk to tell all the sports photogrpahers you got published for free.. you made sure everyone knew it was for free and you made sure all the sports togs would know...

I take issue wiht the...rub there noses in it approach to be honest :(

If its part of a plan to eventualy get paid as your reply to awp suggests then tell us more?
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I am regretting even posting this I did not know that this was just the domain of pro sports togs I just thought naieveley that as it said Talk Sport it would be the place to share my news,yes I am an amateur and these are shots I just take for my West Midlands league team but due to postings on here I decided to approach the local rag and to my pleasure they have published them.
In the long term yes it would be nice to be paid for what is my hobby and if the chance arises I will grab it with both hands but in view of what has been posted here I will probably keep the good news to myself
 
CaptainPenguin said:
I am regretting even posting this
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and i get all the blame seeing as you quoted me when replying.. yet I said i dont have a problem with the free pics.. just the way you seem to be using it to cause trouble.... oh well... :)
 
KIPAX said:
and i get all the blame seeing as you quoted me when replying.. yet I said i dont have a problem with the free pics.. just the way you seem to be using it to cause trouble.... oh well... :)
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Kipax I didn't even notice whose quote I was copying it was just the comments in there,I was not trying to rub anybody's noses in it I was not trying to cause trouble I was just wanting to say that had a picture in the paper and was pleased about it.
In addition it has been said that the likes of me are taking food from the mouths of the pro's well If I ever see a pro at a West Midlands League Premier Division match I will out of courtesy not send any of my shots to the paper,having said that the pro I was talking to at a cup final that the cup committee had askedme to cover at the end of last season dod not see me my 350D and 30 year old 70-210 as a threat in fact he was very chatty and very friendly
 
CaptainPenguin said:
In addition it has been said that the likes of me are taking food from the mouths of the pro's
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I hate that saying and have never used it myself. nor do i really believe it... I reitterate.. no problem here wiht what you do with your pictures.. quite early in the thread i said ....your pics.. your choice..

I just really and truly didnt see why you added you didnt get paid.. I cant believe you didnt expect the responses when you added that...

Poeple ask me what I get paid and for the most part I tell them thats my business... unless I made a killing then I show off:)
 
To the couple of people who've commented that they don't see the problem with this post or for not charging for images - as I see it, the Talk Sports category was instigated and initiated for and on behalf of Professional Sports photographers - but hey - tell me if I'm wrong.
The majority of users are and will be professional sports photographers with the occasional hobbyist thrown into the mix asking for advice...which is fine...
But be advised:
This is a place where real men (and women) chew tobacco, spit and swear...
 
Arkady said:
To the couple of people who've commented that they don't see the problem with this post or for not charging for images - as I see it, the Talk Sports category was instigated and initiated for and on behalf of Professional Sports photographers - but hey - tell me if I'm wrong.
The majority of users are and will be professional sports photographers with the occasional hobbyist thrown into the mix asking for advice...which is fine...
But be advised:
This is a place where real men (and women) chew tobacco, spit and swear...
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To be fair Rob, I'm not sure that's the case. It's true that the new subforums were created partly as a result of the specific request from some professional sports photographers but they have been discussed on and off for quite a while now and were set up for people to discuss aspects of photography that were specific to sports, portraits, wildlife etc. I don't believe the sports section is intended to be specifically for the pros, it just so happens that the ratio of pros to amateurs posting in it is quite high.

That said, your last sentence is spot on. :D
 
fabs said:
To be fair Rob, I'm not sure that's the case. It's true that the new subforums were created partly as a result of the specific request from some professional sports photographers but they have been discussed on and off for quite a while now and were set up for people to discuss aspects of photography that were specific to sports, portraits, wildlife etc. I don't believe the sports section is intended to be specifically for the pros, it just so happens that the ratio of pros to amateurs posting in it is quite high.

That said, your last sentence is spot on. :D
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That last sentance sounded like the Wire Room at Villa Park actually. Rough and ready (as anyone who's been there will appreciate!)

I'd agree Marc, I didn't envisage the Talk Sports section to be set up for Pro's only...if I wanted a pro-only forum I'd have looked into setting one up a long time ago.

My issue is that the OP knew that Talk Sport has a high proportion of "pro" togs...or people who at least charge a fee for their work. Despite that, through naivety or sheer brazen-ness, he went ahead and commented that he wasn't being paid and didn't mind. It's exactly the sort of inflammatory comment that we don't need in speciality sections (I had visions of guys coming into Talk Sports and saying "sports photography is just spray and pray photography - discuss"). The OP surely must have known that such a comment (which was, I feel, completely unnecessary) would draw a reaction.
 
fabs said:
To be fair Rob, I'm not sure that's the case. It's true that the new subforums were created partly as a result of the specific request from some professional sports photographers but they have been discussed on and off for quite a while now and were set up for people to discuss aspects of photography that were specific to sports, portraits, wildlife etc. I don't believe the sports section is intended to be specifically for the pros, it just so happens that the ratio of pros to amateurs posting in it is quite high.

That said, your last sentence is spot on. :D
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Sorry, I didn't get time to finish as Jules is being "pregnant -concerny-GF" today...

No - it's not exclusively for Pros, but who do you imagine will be the biggest proportion of users? And as I said: "...professional sports photographers with the occasional hobbyist thrown in the mix..."

Look at the traffic here so far compared to the other speciality chat threads...other users might want to pause before posting, that's all...
 
jamesb84 said:
That last sentance sounded like the Wire Room at Villa Park actually. Rough and ready (as anyone who's been there will appreciate!)

I'd agree Marc, I didn't envisage the Talk Sports section to be set up for Pro's only...if I wanted a pro-only forum I'd have looked into setting one up a long time ago.

My issue is that the OP knew that Talk Sport has a high proportion of "pro" togs...or people who at least charge a fee for their work. Despite that, through naivety or sheer brazen-ness, he went ahead and commented that he wasn't being paid and didn't mind. It's exactly the sort of inflammatory comment that we don't need in speciality sections (I had visions of guys coming into Talk Sports and saying "sports photography is just spray and pray photography - discuss"). The OP surely must have known that such a comment (which was, I feel, completely unnecessary) would draw a reaction.
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Probably best if I don't get drawn into that part of it James. ;)
 
jamesb84 said:
That last sentance sounded like the Wire Room at Villa Park actually. Rough and ready (as anyone who's been there will appreciate!)

I'd agree Marc, I didn't envisage the Talk Sports section to be set up for Pro's only...if I wanted a pro-only forum I'd have looked into setting one up a long time ago.

My issue is that the OP knew that Talk Sport has a high proportion of "pro" togs...or people who at least charge a fee for their work. Despite that, through naivety or sheer brazen-ness, he went ahead and commented that he wasn't being paid and didn't mind. It's exactly the sort of inflammatory comment that we don't need in speciality sections (I had visions of guys coming into Talk Sports and saying "sports photography is just spray and pray photography - discuss"). The OP surely must have known that such a comment (which was, I feel, completely unnecessary) would draw a reaction.
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I think it was naivety TBH...I don't imagine for one moment that the OP was coming here and waving a red-flag just for the sake of it - I think his excitement and enthusiasm got the better of him...the alternative would be quite horrible to contemplate...right?

Better to get this one out of the way early on, then hopefully others won't make a similar mistake...
 
Arkady said:
Sorry, I didn't get time to finish as Jules is being "pregnant -concerny-GF" today...

No - it's not exclusively for Pros, but who do you imagine will be the biggest proportion of users? And as I said: "...professional sports photographers with the occasional hobbyist thrown in the mix..."

Look at the traffic here so far compared to the other speciality chat threads...other users might want to pause before posting, that's all...
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Indeed and I said pretty much the same in my post with regard to the ratio of pros to amateurs, just wanted to clear up any possible misconceptions as to the reasons behind setting up the section.

That said, yhe average user will want to post in the section they feel most appropriate for the subject and can't really be expected to work out the ratio of pro to am threads beforehand so I expect there may need to be some give and take from both sides. In other words,as an amateur, don't be too surprised if your post gets a few pros excited. Conversely, if you are a pro, cut people some slack and don't get too upset if an amateur posts something that may infringe on your beliefs.
 
It was naivety I honestly did not expect to have stirred up the can of worms that I have I apologise profusely for any offence caused but please believe me it was not intentional
 
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