Hybrid cars

JonathanRyan

JonathanRyan

Suspended / Banned
Messages
10,765
Name
Jonathan
Edit My Images
Yes
Anybody got a hybrid? How do you rate it?

It's time to trade in the lying diesel wagon (and Smartacus :( ) and I've been browsing the web for hybrids. Anybody got first hand knowledge of:

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (head says buy this but it looks s-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o dull....)
Kia Niro (sensible but a bit fun)
Hyundai Ioniq (fun but sensible)
Something else?

I'm simply not a BMW driver, I don't want to pay for a Mercedes and somehow I just can't bring myself to drive a Pious. Oh and a Tesla costs too much and I'd probably kill myself.

Anything I've missed?

Need a decent boot and the ability to refuel it pretty much anywhere. Drive into London a fair bit so dodging the congestion charge would be a win.
 
C-HR looks nice. I mean, dull, but nice :) I was looking for something that had been out a bit longer though so I could pick up an ex-demo.

As for 55 grand on an "exciting" Volvo - well, we're in Tesla territory........ :D
 
For do one..



HiBread%20Car_zpsfu0bgzsy.jpg
 
What sort of vehicle are you after? SUV, hatchback, saloon, large medium?
If you look on Ford direct site there are Mondeo 4dr hybrid diesel saloons 1yr to 2yrs old. There is a 1yr old top of the range Big name with just 3351 miles on the clock for £23k down to a 1yr old Titanium with 2654 miles for just over £16k. 26 cars in all.
 
I drove a Toyota Prius for 10 years three of them. All did 140k never a problem and they averaged 50 plus to the gallon. For me comfortable drove to Spain them. All I can say is very pleased with them
 
nilagin said:
What sort of vehicle are you after? SUV, hatchback, saloon, large medium?
Click to expand...

Good question.

I guess medium saloon upwards. I've always driven estates but would be fine with a saloon with a boot over about 400l. I don't need an SUV but it would help me blend in in Chelsea, ditto a 4X4 :) Need something the eats up motorway miles but is fine in cities - one of my most common trips is to hammer down the M2 and then sit in a queue from the Blackwall Tunnel onwards or nip over the water and fill up with flat pack at Ikea.

I do have a list of prejudices though....

  1. No diesel hybrids - I believe that within 5 years even a hint of diesel will be taxed into oblivion
  2. Prefer not to buy anything from VAG. That includes Seat and Skoda. Nice cars - hideous company.
  3. Don't see myself as a BMW driver.....
I'll take a look at Ford though. They haven't done anything to upset me lately :) and for some reason I always forget about them. But I can see myself looking further east ATM.
 
My grandson works for Toyota and I had a test drive of that CH-R the day it was announced ,rest assured it's far from boring or dull ,goes like s*** off a shovel to .
 
Have you driven a BMW?

Most of us didn't think we would be until we bought one.
Now I couldn't drive anything else.

To go from a French tin can to an MSport BMW was like night and day.
 
noneforit said:
Have you driven a BMW?

Most of us didn't think we would be until we bought one.
Now I couldn't drive anything else.

To go from a French tin can to an MSport BMW was like night and day.
Click to expand...


Same here, great cars to drive. I'll be looking at swapping my 330D for the 330e PHEV next year. Would be great if they did a touring version like Merc though.
 
noneforit said:
Have you driven a BMW?

Most of us didn't think we would be until we bought one.
Now I couldn't drive anything else.

To go from a French tin can to an MSport BMW was like night and day.
Click to expand...
There's only one real MSport, they build rally cars, rally cross cars and GT race cars . That truly is night and day. ;)


 
nilagin said:
There's only one real MSport, they build rally cars, rally cross cars and GT race cars . That truly is night and day. ;)RL]
Click to expand...

Haha I don't disagree, I have been to the WRC at Trier a few times.

My comment was more about going from a French trim car to an MSport trim with the Beemer.
Even at 15 years old, my E46 is still more comfortable, more reliable and quicker than my other halfs Citroen thing.
Ignoring the MPG obviously....
 
noneforit said:
Haha I don't disagree, I have been to the WRC at Trier a few times.

My comment was more about going from a French trim car to an MSport trim with the Beemer.
Even at 15 years old, my E46 is still more comfortable, more reliable and quicker than my other halfs Citroen thing.
Ignoring the MPG obviously....
Click to expand...
I had the displeasure of having a Citroen for a courtesy car back in the late 90's. It was just as basic as a base model 78 Fiesta. :eek:
 
The new BMWs can be surprisingly economical, in eco mode driving like Miss Daisy I can get almost 60mpg which is pretty amazing considering it's a 3 litre 6 cylinder AWD and can do 0-60mph in around 5 seconds and it's an auto box.

Unfortunately the damn list price pushes my bik to an unattractive level of close to £5k per year whereas the 330e will be less than £1k. I'm happy to sacrifice a slight bit of performance for such a saving plus I'll be able to do all my committing off the battery in so I'll save a fortune in fuel costs.
 
noneforit said:
Have you driven a BMW?

Most of us didn't think we would be until we bought one.
Now I couldn't drive anything else.

To go from a French tin can to an MSport BMW was like night and day.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that. I used to be quite vocal about what I thought of BMW and their owners, until I was in search of a cheap temporary car a few years back and a bargain 3-series came up locally. Utterly fell in love with it and had to rather embarrassingly eat all my words.


I don't drive them now mostly as my budget is a lot lower than it used to be, but I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Everything I've owned since my BMWs is compared to them as a benchmark.
 
I know someone who had a Lexus hydrid SUV thing (not sure of the model), he loved it though. Might be a consideration?
 
Well a day of looking at cars and I find I don't really want a new car. Or to talk to a car dealer ever again. I wonder how anybody has the energy to buy a car.....

Things I found out:

  1. There are no hybrids with a decent boot. None.
  2. Well, maybe VW have one but 2 salesmen practically laughed at me for wanting one, tried to sell me a diesel and then found VW have just discontinued diesels in the models they were trying to sell me.
  3. Also the Mitsubishi Outlander but that's enormous. Would be great if I was in CTU from 24. But for most practical purposes it's too big. Also, ugly. Also MPG estimates vary between 810 and, err, 40. From the same person, which doesn't really inspire confidence.
  4. I liked the new Prius more than I thought. Until I drove it. I'm sure it can accelerate from a standing start but somehow I never managed it. I'm trying to avoid words like "milk float" when describing it but, you know.... Toyota didn't want to show me their C-HR which is a shame because it really isn't dull. But after an hour and a half of them of telling me I want a hideous Auris but they supposed I might be allowed to buy a Prius I walked out. (Literally - the bloke was hiding in the back room at the time. Again.)
  5. The Kia Niro is nicer than I thought. A bit spongy to drive but fine really. But the boot is way smaller than I'd expect in an SUV and I struggled to get more than 45 MPG out of it which is a bit of a shame.
  6. I expect the Hyundai Ioniq is even nicer - but somebody had it out for a test drive all day so I don't really know.
  7. Ford win the prize for most appalling sales technique (narrowly beating Toyota and VW). Went in, explained my requirements (didn't mention hybrid in case it scared them off). Sat and waited for 10 mins or so (showroom was pretty empty but I guess all the people at desks were actually busy). After a bit a chap in an actual bow tie came over. Explained my requirements again. "Well, I have an appointment soon - what vehicle would you like to explore until then?" A bit baffled I pointed randomly at a used Mondeo estate to get the ball rolling. He explained he would get the keys and I walked over to it. I heard a thunk as it unlocked. He was 30 feet away with the remote. I never saw him again. After a bit I left.........
But you know the weird thing? After going to out to buy a hybrid and definitely not a diesel, I really really like the Honda Civic Diesel................
 
Sounds poor, is it Hybrids or PHEVs you are looking at, or both? There's always Lexus as well?

The Civic Tourer is a great car, amazing economy from some of their diesels although the petrol engines are bullet proof and still very economical if you are willing to forget performance.
 
gman said:
Sounds poor, is it Hybrids or PHEVs you are looking at, or both?
Click to expand...

I'd consider either. But most PHEVS if you forget plug them in overnight or exceed the battery range then they have pretty horrid mileage. Hybrids seem better ATM but the tech just doesn't seem quite there yet.

gman said:
There's always Lexus as well?
Click to expand...

Another brand I just don't like the feel of. I'll look into them because I thought they only had the RX as a hybrid but it seems they have loads :)
 
There's a new one similar to the RX but not quite as big which looks nice, although i was looking at one the other week in the showroom (was picking up a SAAB part as they are also Western SAAB) and the boot seemed quite small for an suv, rather shallow.

Just looked it up, It's the NX.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to have this problem if I get the 330e although I've got a big roofbox now which will also fit it and is fine for suitcases etc but not ideal for camera or lighting gear.

The Merc C class touring PHEV is supposed to have a decent boot and is pretty quick also. Expensive though but I'd probably only lease one because of the worry with battery lifespan.
 
Hybrids are s***, no single decent person has one.

Nissan make probably one of the best. That's still s***.

Get a petrol car and enjoy the next 5 years. Electric cars are not the future.
 
McLaren P1 or Porsche 918 would be my choice.
 
I know it's diesel but Volvo XC60? Just had a look, 60mpg 0-60 in 8s so not slow.
 
andyscott said:
Hybrids are s***, no single decent person has one.

Nissan make probably one of the best. That's still s***.

Get a petrol car and enjoy the next 5 years. Electric cars are not the future.
Click to expand...

Soon, there will be no petrol cars that aren't hybrids. Srsly, the petrol engine is now fully evolved - there's no way to make a petrol car more efficient without batteries.

Matt- said:
I know it's diesel but Volvo XC60? Just had a look, 60mpg 0-60 in 8s so not slow.
Click to expand...

Soon, diesel will be taxed into oblivion...... The science behind it is dubious but, well, we're short of money and evil diesel drivers are an easy target.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Soon, there will be no petrol cars that aren't hybrids. Srsly, the petrol engine is now fully evolved - there's no way to make a petrol car more efficient without batteries.
Click to expand...

Petrol engines are still being made more efficient, even without the use of batteries. It's not fully evolved yet.
 
I've always had Jags and Lexusesessss, but since retiring I just don't have the money anymore so I bought a Auris hybrid. They are not what they are cracked up to be. In cold weather the mileage drops off considerably, they tend to drive you rather than the other way round, there are so many bleep bleep bleeps for this that and the other. By far the most annoying thing is no one can hear you coming on supermarket car parks meaning that you are either moving at walking pace or scaring the s**t out of people with a quick blast of the horn. But the good side is, there is no road tax....YET
 
JonathanRyan said:
Soon, there will be no petrol cars that aren't hybrids. Srsly, the petrol engine is now fully evolved - there's no way to make a petrol car more efficient without batteries.



Soon, diesel will be taxed into oblivion...... The science behind it is dubious but, well, we're short of money and evil diesel drivers are an easy target.
Click to expand...


Batteries and electric to charge them are worse for the environment
 
I think at the moment they are looking more at the local level of pollution which cars directly cause whereas power stations can be sited away from the population. Still not good for the environment but then the next step would then be to eventually replace polluting power stations with renewable energy sources. Then we can look at the pollution involved in battery production etc.

Have to start somewhere I guess and surely it's a step in the right direction?
 
Hyundai Ioniq is pretty good normal car, I test drove it a few months ago. I feel it accelerates better than my C220 diesel (better because you don't feel you are loosing power near the rev top end). Downside is that it didn't feel like a hybrid during the cold day I drove it, felt like a normal car with the engine always running. There's no way to force EV mode and the 2 Hyundai dealership I spoke to all know less about the hybrid powertrain than me!

Dealerships are the worst. They always make you feel like you are trying to plead or force them to give you something. All are filled by sales people who lack the knowledge to properly educate people on new technology, All they do is try to flog the same old metal box. Hyundai showroom in Strathford Westfield shopping centre and Tesla showroom in Brent Cross is the proper way to sell: make you experience and want the car, have people on hand with knowledge of the cars. Then you pay the (already discounted) sticker price.

The dealer's negotiation tactics are also too obvious and pointless. In one dealer, I told his how much I'm planning to spend, then his runs back and forth with his "manager" and then ask for more, saying "I'm helping you with this deposit contribution, now can you do similar by upping x?" NO! I've already worked out the maths, give me the price other dealers are able to offer and let me sign on the dotted line!

IMHO just buy any odd second hand car for now. Then get the Tesla Model 3 in 2-3 years time. There's no point stressing over the styling or capability of the car now, it's not worth the effort, it'd be replaced by an EV from an EV company by 2020 anyway. In 10-20 years time, the whole dealership network will collapse.


Also, OP, remember that small SUV (Niro/CH-R) doesn't automatically mean more space. Ioniq probably has more boot space than the Niro. Small SUV are basically jacked up hatchbacks.


andyscott said:
Batteries and electric to charge them are worse for the environment
Click to expand...

It's like saying everyone should be using horses, because who would want a metal cage that is slow and loud?

EV are the future, in one form or another, there's no point denying.
 
wuyanxu said:
.

It's like saying everyone should be using horses, because who would want a metal cage that is slow and loud?

EV are the future, in one form or another, there's no point denying.
Click to expand...

No it's not, are you drunk? The arguments for electric vehicles/hybrids are emissions. I didn't say people shouldn't be driving them, I say the arguments that they put forward aren't accurate.

Batteries are hugely more damaging to the environment in manufacturing and shipping, let alone charging and running.
 
Couldn't the same be said for the extraction, refining and shipping costs for petrol and diesel though? At least with an electric car there are no emissions right in your face as you walk down the street.

I do wonder how much can be attributed to cars though as heavier vehicles seem to belch out a lot, especially buses. It will probably be a while before the commercial side of transport will become predominantly electric. It's already started but with profit being number one priority I think it's a long way off until the car industry accelerates research and tech and drives the costs down (excuse the pun).
 
andyscott said:
No it's not, are you drunk? The arguments for electric vehicles/hybrids are emissions. I didn't say people shouldn't be driving them, I say the arguments that they put forward aren't accurate.

Batteries are hugely more damaging to the environment in manufacturing and shipping, let alone charging and running.
Click to expand...

My point is you sound like a pro-horse person back in 1800's. You have to look further than right now.

- Manufacture of EV pollute the similar to a regular car, difference being replace the engine block with batteries and motors.
- Batteries can always be recycled to be stationary battery banks: http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-i3-batteries-to-be-recycled-for-home-use/
- Charging EV can be from renewable energy sources, such as solar/wind, where the energy is stored in the recycled batteries during sunny/windy periods.
- Running EV has zero emission.

Eventually, electricity will be 100% renewable. Just a few weeks ago, whole of UK national grid had zero coal burnt. In fact, even now I am powering my house using 100% renewable energy: solar panels on the roof, 100% renewable electricity supplier for rest of the time.

Whichever way you look at it, EV produce less emissions. It does produces more emissions from manufacture to 3 year old, but longer you drive, the less emissions you produce. Over its whole lifetime including recycled battery, it undeniably produce way less emissions.



Hybrids are a whole different ball game. They use the fossil fuel more efficiently, the problem is that the primary source of their energy is still fossil fuel. So the question of whether overall emission is lower, depends heavily on the car and how it's driven.
 
I see there is a new diesel scrappage scheme but I do think if the Government are really serious about pollution from cars they really need to get a decent infrastructure in place with recharging stations. Also, if you don't have a driveway then that causes another problem with recharging at home.The other issue I can think of is the actual power draw from the grid, I'm sure I remember watching a documentary where they need to try and predict usage all the time and do the necessary to accomodate. The bit about everyone going for a cup of tea before Eastenders or somerhing at the certain time in the evening rings a bell
 
andyscott said:
No it's not, are you drunk? The arguments for electric vehicles/hybrids are emissions. I didn't say people shouldn't be driving them, I say the arguments that they put forward aren't accurate.

Batteries are hugely more damaging to the environment in manufacturing and shipping, let alone charging and running.
Click to expand...

But that doesn't (economically) matter. Our environmental policy has absolutely nothing to do with the environment. After all, 6 years ago the government told me to buy a diesel because it was best for the environment - so I did. Now apparently I'm some sort of criminal because somebody else deliberately cheated the test. I'm now supposed to buy something new from the people who cheated. So their punishment is money.

Also, it won't have escaped your attention that the pollution caused by batteries is in other countries. We are the good guys here :)

wuyanxu said:
IMHO just buy any odd second hand car for now. Then get the Tesla Model 3 in 2-3 years time. There's no point stressing over the styling or capability of the car now, it's not worth the effort, it'd be replaced by an EV from an EV company by 2020 anyway. In 10-20 years time, the whole dealership network will collapse.
Click to expand...

That's actually more or less what I've decided. The tech isn't here yet. It will be soon but I don't want to pay the early adopters' tax (and possibly back the wrong horse). So I'm happy to buy something nice to tide me over. I won't be buying diesel because there's a (small) chance it really does kill people and I'd rather not do that. Coincidentally, I'll probably be buying something from the one dealer who was actually nice to me - after a chat about the various options he grabbed some keys and said "do you want me to come with you or are you OK on your own with it?".
 
gman said:
I do wonder how much can be attributed to cars though as heavier vehicles seem to belch out a lot, especially buses.
Click to expand...

For obvious reasons, I've been reading up on this lately. It's hard to know who's telling the truth (especially as manufacturers seem to routinely cheat at the tests) but most people seem to agree that buses and most commercial vehicles produce a lot less pollution than cars in cities at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...sions-toxic-pollution-than-a-bus-data-reveals
 
I'm guessing, without looking at the article, it's down to volume as the buses here create a black cloud of despair whenever they accelerate! Not sure about buses but the new trucks these days are Euro 6, with the help of adblue, and i believe they are quite environmentally friendly all things considered.

Back to cars, Honda petrol engines are usually one of the best for actually meeting and exceeding official mpg claims. I would assume their emissions are also quite accurate, I think Japan has strong environment laws as the paint on Japanese cars is crap due to this I believe, so I guess it could be assumed their emissions also follow such strictness. Just an assumption though.

You can pick up a nice 8th gen Accord Tourer 2L petrol these days at a good price. Made in Japan and bullet proof. A nice looking car also. The 2.4 is more desirable but quite rare in touring guise.
 
I bought a new (used) car about 3 months ago - a 2010 Vauxhall Astra J 2 litre diesel automatic. I was fully aware of the current electric and hybrid cars on the market, but for me, they don't deliver enough return to warrant the outlay. I do not purchase cars on finance or lease, as I can't seem to get my head around it. This car cost me under 4K, and I am confident it will happily last at least three years in my ownership before I get a strong itch to change. Even then, it will still be worth maybe 2k or so. I tend to get around abouts 48mpg consumption (due to a lot of A roads on my daily route).

Perhaps I am just naive, but this appears to be a more sensible route at the moment until hybrids/electrics truly do flourish and because affordable and excellent in the same way a modern Ddiesel engine is (primarily in the BMW and Mercedes range)

Sure my "new" car is no masaerati.. but it's quite enjoyable to drive, sports good acelation and is certainly good enough for a "tide over"

In my very humble opinion.
 
JonathanRyan said:
That's actually more or less what I've decided. The tech isn't here yet. It will be soon but I don't want to pay the early adopters' tax (and possibly back the wrong horse). So I'm happy to buy something nice to tide me over. I won't be buying diesel because there's a (small) chance it really does kill people and I'd rather not do that. Coincidentally, I'll probably be buying something from the one dealer who was actually nice to me - after a chat about the various options he grabbed some keys and said "do you want me to come with you or are you OK on your own with it?".
Click to expand...

Out of interest, which dealership is that?

I had a thread going a while ago, I really really want adaptive cruise control. So that means newer cars (or older massive land cruisers that are expensive to repair). I went around teat drove a few and none of the dealer was pleasant to deal with. All were very hard to get hold of, then if you show interest to buy, all attempts to become your best bud in the universe and runs back and forth to "get you the best price".

I hate the whole new car buying shenanigans introduced by dealers, the sooner Tesla-like direct sales become norm, the better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top