How to Expose Properly for Long Exposures?

iaminneedofhelp

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Hi,
I've recently been interested in doing some long exposure photography and maybe a bit of astrophotography. I've read a few guides and watched a few videos so far and have picked up on people saying 'take an exposure meter reading' and 'start measuring the exposure using my spot meter'. What do they mean by this? Is there some way I can calculate how long I need to expose the image to get a perfectly exposed image?
Also, recently, when I was trying out some astrophotography of a dark sky (i.e. stars were not very bright) I just had to use trial and error as a solution to this problem - not ideal when mucking around with 5, 10 and 15 minute exposures... Anyway I can rectify this?
I've searched around quite a bit but nowhere has really answered my question yet - I hope you can :)
Thanks!
 
There is a faster practical way when shooting in dark conditions.

Bump the ISO to something ridiculously high and/or open your aperture up to take test shots for focus and composition etc. Also get exposure roughly right. Then calculate what it will be at more sensible ISO and aperture. For each full stop lower ISO or stopped down aperture double the exposure time. But note 1 minute at 25,600 going to 3200 for example is not 4 minutes it is doubled for each stop so it's 8 minutes.

You will get more dynamic range at lower ISO so compared to your high ISO shots you can expose more if desired.
 
First of all, there's no such thing as a 'Perfect' exposure; See Exposure - Exposed!
An exposure's an exposure, it may be darker or brighter, and depending on what you prefer, better or worse; but there's no scientifically calculated 'perfect'.

Which begs the question of metering, and most cameras meter for something it guesses you'll like... and will usually try and force 'settings' to get that for you.. but meters themselves are imperfect, and can easily be fooled.

Comment about starting by metering... well that is what we usually always do anyway, regardless of the kind of photography we are doing; and normally it's pretty transparent; camera has an inbuilt 'Through The Lens' reflected light meter, and that is usually 'coupled' to the cameras settings, and the electrickery in its circuits will usually make actual shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings for you based on what it meters.

Using a hand held accessory meter, you can usually take what is known as an 'incident' reading; measuring the level of ambient light falling on your subject, rather than the actual light being reflected off it. In some 'tricky' situations this can give you a better idea of what settings to use, and avoid you or your camera making settings likely to grossly over or under expose, because the subject is very light or very dark, and reflecting a lot more or a lot less light that you need to make an exposure in which it looks 'normal'.

Spot metering, is a way of doing the same thing with reflected light meter readings; in camera or with a hand held meter. Basically taking a reflected light meter reading from a tiny tiny angle of view, so you point it at your scene and you take readings of 'just' the bright 'highlights' and then at your dark low lights and find the 'range' of brightness across your scene, and then make an 'average' for the scene as a whole, somewhere in the middle. Which, is essentially what the camera would do in it's various metering schemes; whether that's 'evaluative' or 'matrix' or 'center weighted'.. basically all those systems are doing is taking a different number of sport readings from different parts of the scene in the lens and then doing a different set of sums to average them to get an exposure reading for the scene as a whole.

Doing it manually, your camera probably has maybe 5 stops of dynamic range; if your highlights and low lights are further apart than that you may have to decide whether to skew the exposure one way or the other, and let the brightest highlights blow, or whether to loose detail in the shadows. Or you might only be concerned not to blow high-lights, so measure those only via spot reading, and then 'back off' to the center of your cameras range

But, whether you are using in camera metering modes or schemes or a hand held meter, of whatever level of sophistication and necessary manual calculation; its the same thing. Measuring light levels, then applying some discretion to turn that into apropriate camera settings. Some metering schemes are more or less appropriate to different subjects in different situations, but the bottom line is that they are almost always fallible and the camera doesn't know what you want, only what a programmer has told it you probably want....

Last night we had the 'super-moon', I don't do astrophotography, but my G/F called me because she wanted to take a photo of it and was struggling; problem was that her camera, with the kit lens was looking at a lot of sky, that was rather dark, with just a tiny bright blob in the middle.. so it was trying to average the whole scene, and force a long exposure to make the black sky about 18% grey....The subject, however, is in bright direct sunlight... it's not night time on the moon! So, I told her to switch her camera onto manual, and use the f16 sunny rule.... she set f16 and ISO100 and then used a shutter of 1/100th.. and guess what? sky came out black, And the moon suddenly had shaddow detail rather than being a bright blob...
.
Now, that is old fashioned metering by eye & experience, but that's what a lot of it comes down to.

In another couple of threads, commenting on milky waterfall photo's; and folk being determined they have to have big stoppa ND's to get them; similar issue with 'long exposure' arises; the desired milking is being generated by the highlights reflecting off the water streaking across the frame during exposure. When you meter, and doesn't matter much what method you use, the metering you get in that situation is for the average of the scene as it exists in real time... but longer your exposure, more of the highlights you let streak across the frame, and so during that period you effectively capture umpety times the number of highlights as they move... and so skewing the exposure towards over exposure, as what you are capturing didn't exist in real time. In that instance, you can use whatever metering method you like, but without recognizing this anomaly and adjusting settings from what metering tries to suggest or force on you, you will always tend to get this skewing towards over exposure, big stoppa or no big stoppa!

It's a matter of know how and knowing where and when your cameras meter is fallible, and when to apply some compensation... and then how much!

And its all very circumstance dependent, and not just for long exposure photography.
 
Bump the ISO to something ridiculously high and/or open your aperture up to take test shots for focus and composition etc. Also get exposure roughly right. Then calculate what it will be at more sensible ISO and aperture. For each full stop lower ISO or stopped down aperture double the exposure time. But note 1 minute at 25,600 going to 3200 for example is not 4 minutes it is doubled for each stop so it's 8 minutes.

Very useful! I will give that trick a go next time I try astrophotography. Quick question; if I stop down the aperture AND reduce the ISO by a stop what do I do with the calculations? Should I just do them the same but separately (i.e. calculate exposure time after working it out for reduced ISO and then do it for aperture)?
Also, should I put my camera into Av mode and use Spot Metering/relevant metering mode to get that initial reading of '1 minute at 25,600?

Which begs the question of metering, and most cameras meter for something it guesses you'll like... and will usually try and force 'settings' to get that for you.. but meters themselves are imperfect, and can easily be fooled.

Comment about starting by metering... well that is what we usually always do anyway, regardless of the kind of photography we are doing; and normally it's pretty transparent; camera has an inbuilt 'Through The Lens' reflected light meter, and that is usually 'coupled' to the cameras settings, and the electrickery in its circuits will usually make actual shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings for you based on what it meters.

Using a hand held accessory meter, you can usually take what is known as an 'incident' reading; measuring the level of ambient light falling on your subject, rather than the actual light being reflected off it. In some 'tricky' situations this can give you a better idea of what settings to use, and avoid you or your camera making settings likely to grossly over or under expose, because the subject is very light or very dark, and reflecting a lot more or a lot less light that you need to make an exposure in which it looks 'normal'.

Spot metering, is a way of doing the same thing with reflected light meter readings; in camera or with a hand held meter. Basically taking a reflected light meter reading from a tiny tiny angle of view, so you point it at your scene and you take readings of 'just' the bright 'highlights' and then at your dark low lights and find the 'range' of brightness across your scene, and then make an 'average' for the scene as a whole, somewhere in the middle. Which, is essentially what the camera would do in it's various metering schemes; whether that's 'evaluative' or 'matrix' or 'center weighted'.. basically all those systems are doing is taking a different number of sport readings from different parts of the scene in the lens and then doing a different set of sums to average them to get an exposure reading for the scene as a whole.

Doing it manually, your camera probably has maybe 5 stops of dynamic range; if your highlights and low lights are further apart than that you may have to decide whether to skew the exposure one way or the other, and let the brightest highlights blow, or whether to loose detail in the shadows. Or you might only be concerned not to blow high-lights, so measure those only via spot reading, and then 'back off' to the center of your cameras range

But, whether you are using in camera metering modes or schemes or a hand held meter, of whatever level of sophistication and necessary manual calculation; its the same thing. Measuring light levels, then applying some discretion to turn that into apropriate camera settings. Some metering schemes are more or less appropriate to different subjects in different situations, but the bottom line is that they are almost always fallible and the camera doesn't know what you want, only what a programmer has told it you probably want....

Last night we had the 'super-moon', I don't do astrophotography, but my G/F called me because she wanted to take a photo of it and was struggling; problem was that her camera, with the kit lens was looking at a lot of sky, that was rather dark, with just a tiny bright blob in the middle.. so it was trying to average the whole scene, and force a long exposure to make the black sky about 18% grey....The subject, however, is in bright direct sunlight... it's not night time on the moon! So, I told her to switch her camera onto manual, and use the f16 sunny rule.... she set f16 and ISO100 and then used a shutter of 1/100th.. and guess what? sky came out black, And the moon suddenly had shaddow detail rather than being a bright blob...
.
Now, that is old fashioned metering by eye & experience, but that's what a lot of it comes down to.

In another couple of threads, commenting on milky waterfall photo's; and folk being determined they have to have big stoppa ND's to get them; similar issue with 'long exposure' arises; the desired milking is being generated by the highlights reflecting off the water streaking across the frame during exposure. When you meter, and doesn't matter much what method you use, the metering you get in that situation is for the average of the scene as it exists in real time... but longer your exposure, more of the highlights you let streak across the frame, and so during that period you effectively capture umpety times the number of highlights as they move... and so skewing the exposure towards over exposure, as what you are capturing didn't exist in real time. In that instance, you can use whatever metering method you like, but without recognizing this anomaly and adjusting settings from what metering tries to suggest or force on you, you will always tend to get this skewing towards over exposure, big stoppa or no big stoppa!

It's a matter of know how and knowing where and when your cameras meter is fallible, and when to apply some compensation... and then how much!

And its all very circumstance dependent, and not just for long exposure photography.

Great reply, thanks! I understand about using spot metering to get the part of the image you want exposed correctly but still am a bit funny on how you can select the 'correct' exposure time for a long exposure. Do you have to do trial and error and see which length of time produces a sensible exposure? Or is there some way you can 'calculate' it before you take the shot? Maybe this is also what Craig_85 was talking about above. Thanks!
 
For astrophotography it depends what you want. If you want star trails then have a look at this guide from Matt - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/tutorials/photography-guide-star-trails.45/

If you want the stars to appear as points of light then the most important thing is the shutter speed (assuming the camera is stationary and not guided).

The maximum exposure in seconds to prevent the star images from trailing is about = 500/(focal length of the lens x crop factor of the camera).

This isn't an absolute law as it depends which part of the sky you are photographing, but it is a good starting point for experimentation. After that its a matter of selecting an aperture and ISO that will give you what you want. To get as much starlight as possible have the lens wide open - I guess most star shots are taken with the lens at its widest aperture, then just vary the ISO until you get something you like. On my camera and kit I can get some stars at f3.5, 15s and an ISO of 1600, but I usually use 3200 or 6400, but by 12800 the noise is usually too intrusive.

Dave
 
Very useful! I will give that trick a go next time I try astrophotography. Quick question; if I stop down the aperture AND reduce the ISO by a stop what do I do with the calculations? Should I just do them the same but separately (i.e. calculate exposure time after working it out for reduced ISO and then do it for aperture)?
Also, should I put my camera into Av mode and use Spot Metering/relevant metering mode to get that initial reading of '1 minute at 25,600?

Aperture / ISO / Shutter Speed changes
For any given exposure, the three will be linked
So if we reduce aperture by 2 stops (EG f/2.8 -> f/5.6), reduce ISO by 1 stop (1600 -> 800) then Shutter must increase by 3 stops (EG 1/1000 -> 1/125).

Note there are a number of 'exposure calculator' apps you can get for smartphones to work out the numbers for you, typically designed to handle the effect of using strong ND filters (Eg What Shutter do I need if I add a 10 stop and it was 1/15?)

For 'Initial Metering' - Yes, Av will give you the numbers you want as a starting point, set auto ISO with a large range to give the camera the greatest chance to find a suitable combination.
Use the meetering mode according to what is important for you (as with any other shot).
 
If you want the stars to appear as points of light then the most important thing is the shutter speed (assuming the camera is stationary and not guided).

The maximum exposure in seconds to prevent the star images from trailing is about = 500/(focal length of the lens x crop factor of the camera).

Rule of 500 right? I've read about that and I guess you've just got to deal with the lenses capabilities for light gathering at the time by bumping up the ISO like you say. Thanks!

Aperture / ISO / Shutter Speed changes
For any given exposure, the three will be linked
So if we reduce aperture by 2 stops (EG f/2.8 -> f/5.6), reduce ISO by 1 stop (1600 -> 800) then Shutter must increase by 3 stops (EG 1/1000 -> 1/125).

----

For 'Initial Metering' - Yes, Av will give you the numbers you want as a starting point, set auto ISO with a large range to give the camera the greatest chance to find a suitable combination.
Use the meetering mode according to what is important for you (as with any other shot).

Nice, great explanation. I sort of get it now -> find the right exposure with high ISO's and wide apertures and then keep that exposure by editing the settings accordingly. So, for example, use high ISO, with wide open aperture and then change it to lower ISO, the aperture you want and then use the shutter speed for the long exposure.

I don't have an ND filter yet but when I do those apps should be very helpful!

Cheers :)
 
OK, as said there is no such thing as a mathematically 'correct' exposure, hence no way to mathematically calculate one!

Next the 'exposure triangle' the relationship between ISO sensitivity, shutter speed and aperture, is strategically designed with increments in 'Stops' in order to maintain a simple 'progression' with one stop change in any one always being the equivalent of one stop change in another.

In theory, if you have an exposure value that begs, 1s at ISO100 and f8, if you put a 10 stop filter in front of that, it would demand the exposure period be extended from 1s to 15minutes. The 'stop' system, the mathematical progression still holds, and you shouldn't 'need' any alternative calculation or compensation to adjust the exposure.

BUT, working in such low light, even before putting on a high stop filter... you DO need to ask how accurate your meter and metering scheme may be, and you MAY need to consider the best way to meter in such low light, and you might have to consider adding some compensation for any particular scheme likely to be 'fooled' in such dark situations.

THEN, short exposures freeze motion, long exposures blur it. You may have to consider this in relation to longer exposures, hence advice for star shots of keeping exposures shorter than 500/focal length of lens, to minimize how far stars 'streak' across the frame during exposure period; or as I mentioned on the matter of milking waterfalls, where, moving highlights are likely to travel across the frame during exposure, and have similar 'effect' to over exposure, for which you may want to add a little compensation.

But, the Exposure triangle relationship isn't falling down because of the long exposure, both are a function of the subject and picking a shutter speed to suit, and knowing when metering modes may be fooled.

Now, to the exception to the rule, which is one that is a legacy of film, where films could suffer a thing called 'reciprocity failure' at exposure periods much over a minute or so. Film emulsion 'sensitivity' wasn't quite as linear as we'd like and obey the nice straight line of the f-stop exposure triangle; for the most part, the 'curve' was flat enough the system worked within reasonable limits; but when you came to long exposures, it was common the curve could be starting to bow outside of those limits, and the f-stop exposure triangle starting to fall away from the curve, and you had to add a little extra exposure, by opening the aperture a little, or increasing the exposure time (and hence reciprocity failure further!), and at exposures of five minutes or more, the relationship could be completely 'lost'

It may be that your idea you need to add some sort of exposure compensation for long exposures has a source in this legacy of film, where indeed, the 'response' film had at the extremes of long exposure was hugely unpredictable and down largely to trial and error and experience, NOT calculation. In digital, the 'mechanics' of electronic sensors are rather different, and are better controlled to avoid reciprocity failure, and or automatically compensate for it... to greater or lesser degree, and it's likely an idea you may have acquired that is simply the legacy from film.
 
Wow, nice explanation. I get it all now, I just hadn't wrapped my head around the linear f-stop idea quite yet and so was making guess work of my long exposures. I guess as I do more and more I'll get better at them but at least for now I know the principles I need.
Thanks all so much, great answers!
 
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