How Much Effort Do You Put Into An Image?

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

I've sold images in the past (more by accident than my marketing) but I'm far from professional. I've worked in sales most of my life, am a qualified commercial pilot and have spent 3 decades abroad. When I shoot I'm (in my mind) very selective and will bin 95% of my images. Once I've selected an image to publish on my blog, I spend a fair bit of time in PP making that image as good as it can be. The image below, whilst maybe not the world's greatest, took me a good hour and then some to develop. I tend to work at 600% in Photoshop and whilst most of the small dust specks and blemishes I remove are not visible to the human eye at 100%, I still work to remove them, so that my 600% enlarged image still looks close to pixel perfect before I publish it. Now I'm not talking about the technical merit of the image, I'm sure I'm well behind many a pro, but I just wondered how long many of the pros (and enthusiasts) on here take to "develop" their images and their justifications for doing so. If I worked in the way I do now in PP I'd manage to edit a max of 10 macro images a day and would probably be losing the will to live by the end of the fourth, but as an amateur it's a matter of pride. That half pixel which is wrong irritates the heck out of me so I'll correct it, great image or not. How do others here work with regard PP and final presentation? For those who do this for a living, does the will to perfect every image wear off or do you simply demand perfection regardless?

Kodiak Qc · 19 Feb 2016

WingTsun said:
For those who do this for a living, does the will to perfect every image wear off or do you simply demand perfection regardless?

•

With experience and practice, PP solutions come easier and much faster.
If one lives from the trade, 2 points are "de rigueur"!
1, the less time in pp increases the average hourly income
2, it is what the client wants that should be delivered… not always my view!

When I shoot for my self, like at the marsh, I am in no hurry too PP… I like
to mature the work and the artistic rendition.

In any case, I extremely rarely step out of CO9, my RAW converter.

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

Kodiak Qc said:
•

With experience and practice, PP solutions come easier and much faster.
If one lives from the trade, 2 points are "de rigueur"!
1, the less time in pp increases the average hourly income
2, it is what the client wants that should be delivered… not always my view!

When I shoot for my self, like at the marsh, I am in no hurry too PP… I like
to mature the work and the artistic rendition.

In any case, I extremely rarely step out of CO9, my RAW converter.

Yep, that's kind of what I figured. However: is the difference between a great photographer and a good photographer not also in his will to work with an image to perfect it, rather than release something that will be fine to a client? Yes, the best photography will have vision, artistry and great technical knowledge but his ability to develop the digital negative must also be special. What made me a good pilot was not simply that I could take off or land a plane, but that I took a pride in how those actions were.. well.. actioned.

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

Repeated, sorry.

Kodiak Qc · 19 Feb 2016

•

In the view of my client, it MUST be to his/her definition of perfect.
If the company has a AD, he/she attended the shoot and expect
untouched RAW files.
If it is for me… as perfect as I want it.

The pride for me is
— in the payment of my invoice with a smile on my client's face
— my kids, that are the cruelest judges, saying almost nothing
but rushing out to where I took the shots (of course with my gear
and my car!)… and I shall PP all that stuff afterwards!

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

Kodiak Qc said:
•

In the view of my client, it MUST be to his/her definition of perfect.
If the company has a AD, he/she attended the shoot and expect
untouched RAW files.
If it is for me… as perfect as I want it.

The pride for me is
— in the payment of my invoice with a smile on my client's face
— my kids, that are the cruelest judges, saying almost nothing
but rushing out to where I took the shots (of course with my gear
and my car!)… and I shall PP all that stuff afterwards!

LOL! Sounds like a decent formula.

(and yes, I realise the ruddy extension tubes are too dark in the image above!)

My cheap lights, my conservatory and my senile brain don't always play ball!

MeiselMaus · 19 Feb 2016

I am a dabbler, so not sure how relevant my input is to this. However, for what it's worth, I work on a "Does it really matter?" basis. I also spend a long time post processing. However, I tinker with the things that (I believe) will make a notice difference to the final image and that will help convey the impression that I am aiming for. So, I might increase or decrease contrast, dodge and burn to help the composition. Stuff like that. I do correct the mistakes, such as evening out lighting if it needs it or cloning out obvious stray hairs. However, I really wouldn't worry about specks of dust that would only be seen on a billboard-sized print because I will never be producing a billboard sized print. If it makes an important difference, I will invest care doing it. If not, I will save the time and energy to set up and take more photographs.

Sometimes you just have to let it go and convince yourself that good enough really is good enough.

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

MeiselMaus said:
I am a dabbler, so not sure how relevant my input is to this. However, for what it's worth, I work on a "Does it really matter?" basis. I also spend a long time post processing. However, I tinker with the things that (I believe) will make a notice difference to the final image and that will help convey the impression that I am aiming for. So, I might increase or decrease contrast, dodge and burn to help the composition. Stuff like that. I do correct the mistakes, such as evening out lighting if it needs it or cloning out obvious stray hairs. However, I really wouldn't worry about specks of dust that would only be seen on a billboard-sized print because I will never be producing a billboard sized print. If it makes an important difference, I will invest care doing it. If not, I will save the time and energy to set up and take more photographs.

Sometimes you just have to let it go and convince yourself that good enough really is good enough.

My wife teaches special needs children and is a senior teacher. She tells me I'm high on the autistic spectrum. She's probably right.

Willid1 · 19 Feb 2016

WingTsun said:
That half pixel which is wrong irritates the heck out of me so I'll correct it, great image or not.

Well that's a very nice picture but the only thing that irritates me is that the lens cap is not on straight

David

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

Willid1 said:
Well that's a very nice picture but the only thing that irritates me is that the lens cap is not on straight

David

HAHAHA! I almost lost my tea on my poor MacBook! Either that shouldn't matter or you're higher than me on that spectrum!

MeiselMaus · 19 Feb 2016

WingTsun said:
My wife teaches special needs children and is a senior teacher. She tells me I'm high on the autistic spectrum. She's probably right.

Ha! Well. joking aside, that does raise another potentially important issue, which is personal comfort. Unless you are doing this to make money and/or are working to a tight deadline, the only important thing is that your workflow is comfortable for you. If you find that forcing yourself to let it go at an early stage feels wrong, then it is wrong and the rational question of "Does it really matter (to the overall impact of the image)?" becomes irrelevant.

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

MeiselMaus said:
Ha! Well. joking aside, that does raise another potentially important issue, which is personal comfort. Unless you are doing this to make money and/or are working to a tight deadline, the only important thing is that your workflow is comfortable for you. If you find that forcing yourself to let it go at an early stage feels wrong, then it is wrong and the rational question of "Does it really matter (to the overall impact of the image)?" becomes irrelevant.

Quite correct. I can enlarge the image to 600% and see imperfections that bother me. Take it back down to 100% and see nothing yet I'm bound to put it back to 600% and correct. Makes no real sense, hence the thread.

MeiselMaus · 19 Feb 2016

WingTsun said:
Quite correct. I can enlarge the image to 600% and see imperfections that bother me. Take it back down to 100% and see nothing yet I'm bound to put it back to 600% and correct. Makes no real sense, hence the thread.

It doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint, but does from a psychological one. You need it to be perfect to your eye and won't feel comfortable stopping until it is. It is what you do. Humans can never be accused of being rational beings!

ancient_mariner · 19 Feb 2016

Yes, the lenscap is mildly annoying.

I once spent several hours trying to mask every fine branch on a tree at 100%, but that was just silly. 'Simple' images like yours are harder to clean up than normal landscapes etc.

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 19 Feb 2016

ancient_mariner said:
Yes, the lenscap is mildly annoying.

I once spent several hours trying to mask every fine branch on a tree at 100%, but that was just silly. 'Simple' images like yours are harder to clean up than normal landscapes etc.

LOL! I do feel better now!

juggler · 29 Feb 2016

It depends on what it's for. I can spend a couple of hours lighting an image and another couple processing it - or it could just be 5 minutes in Lightroom.
I'm not a wedding photographer but I've had some 1-1 training with one. Her processing workflow was a revelation. There's no way she can afford to spend more than a few minutes on an image.

TheBigYin · 29 Feb 2016

how much effort do I put into an image...

well, as an example - taking one particular image - this one - the whole process started over a month before the final image's date...

I tend to "prototype" and refine shots, getting closer and closer to the original image I have in my mind...

First (pretty desperate) attempt was this - which was processed pretty simply, mainly because I was so disappointed with the "props" and how it hung together.

So, I went away and did a little reading on the subject, discovered the whole Vanitas type of paintings and art genre, and realised that was what I wanted to go for...

On reading up on that genre, I realised that not only did every item that was on the table need to be reasonably "period correct" if the shot was to work, but that there needed to be a REASON for the items to be there - if it didn't help the "story" then it shouldn't be there. So away I went again, considered a few source images for inspiration, and started to sketch what I wanted to see.

After around a fortnight of thinking about it, I finally assembled another "table" - here - getting better, but still missing something - didn't like the Table, didn't like the backdrop, not sure about the keys and trinket-box, back to the drawing board.

More props ordered from fleabay (including Eddie and a rather spectacular churchwarden pipe), I also "made" myself a Table, stained in dark oak finish, which tied into the whole look of the tableau much better. Experimented with another backdrop - again without much success here .

Nothing else for it, I needed a "Stucco Rustico" wall to work with. Down to B&Q, buy a half-sheet of plasterboard, a bag of plaster of paris, and 3 small "sample pots" of emulsion paint. Much experimentation with plastering technique to get a just right "not particularly good" finish to the plaster (after another session of reading up on how the hell to work with coloured polished plaster finishes...) - now we're getting somewhere here

So - at this point I spent the next 3 days fiddling about with the layout of everything, considering the "back story" of how/if everything should be on the table, and faffing around moving the lighting around until I got to the point of my final shot here

so - that's from the 17th February to the 20th of March just in faffing around with the props - mainly in waiting for props to come up on ebay, and waiting for plaster / paint / varnish to dry...

Post production... I think it took around a hour or so... adding in "Bert the Bluebottle" and the smoke and glowing tip of the candle from a prior shot, plus a little gentle dodge/burn as appropriate...

THIRTYFIVEMILL · 29 Feb 2016

TheBigYin said:
how much effort do I put into an image...

well, as an example - taking one particular image - this one - the whole process started over a month before the final image's date...

I tend to "prototype" and refine shots, getting closer and closer to the original image I have in my mind...

First (pretty desperate) attempt was this - which was processed pretty simply, mainly because I was so disappointed with the "props" and how it hung together.

So, I went away and did a little reading on the subject, discovered the whole Vanitas type of paintings and art genre, and realised that was what I wanted to go for...

On reading up on that genre, I realised that not only did every item that was on the table need to be reasonably "period correct" if the shot was to work, but that there needed to be a REASON for the items to be there - if it didn't help the "story" then it shouldn't be there. So away I went again, considered a few source images for inspiration, and started to sketch what I wanted to see.

After around a fortnight of thinking about it, I finally assembled another "table" - here - getting better, but still missing something - didn't like the Table, didn't like the backdrop, not sure about the keys and trinket-box, back to the drawing board.

More props ordered from fleabay (including Eddie and a rather spectacular churchwarden pipe), I also "made" myself a Table, stained in dark oak finish, which tied into the whole look of the tableau much better. Experimented with another backdrop - again without much success here .

Nothing else for it, I needed a "Stucco Rustico" wall to work with. Down to B&Q, buy a half-sheet of plasterboard, a bag of plaster of paris, and 3 small "sample pots" of emulsion paint. Much experimentation with plastering technique to get a just right "not particularly good" finish to the plaster (after another session of reading up on how the hell to work with coloured polished plaster finishes...) - now we're getting somewhere here

So - at this point I spent the next 3 days fiddling about with the layout of everything, considering the "back story" of how/if everything should be on the table, and faffing around moving the lighting around until I got to the point of my final shot here

so - that's from the 17th February to the 20th of March just in faffing around with the props - mainly in waiting for props to come up on ebay, and waiting for plaster / paint / varnish to dry...

Post production... I think it took around a hour or so... adding in "Bert the Bluebottle" and the smoke and glowing tip of the candle from a prior shot, plus a little gentle dodge/burn as appropriate...

Wow! That's some production!! Love the image, though, so proved to be well worth the effort!