How far have we really come?

ajophotog

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Alby
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Just been looking through some of my old photos taken back some 15 years ago and I think I should have kept my old camera gear and saved myself a fortune in the process.
I think looking back, some of the photos look better then I take now, Have I lost it or do others look back and feel the same?
 
Also the continuing improvements in LR, e.g. easy masking and Denoise, allow older images to be re-processed and hopefully improved
Looking back Bill I feel I should grab an old canon 40d and 400 f5.6 for some birding looking at the results I managed in the past lol
 
Exactly....

My daughters 500D Canon is a great bit of equipment...love the photos she captures with it..
 
Looking back Bill I feel I should grab an old canon 40d and 400 f5.6 for some birding looking at the results I managed in the past lol

I agree Alby - you can now pick up "old" Nikon and Canon VR Glass - 400mm, 500mm, 600mm etc., for a fraction of what it cost new a few years ago plus most of the Canon/Nikon pro and semi pro Bodies were/are good for 500k + shutter releases.

I keep thinking about selling my Nikon AFS 600mm f/4 ........ it's a little heavy at my ago, but I've always used it on a tripod ............ but I'd hardly get anything for it compared with a new Nikon 600mm
 
Just been looking through some of my old photos taken back some 15 years ago and I think I should have kept my old camera gear and saved myself a fortune in the process.
I think looking back, some of the photos look better then I take now, Have I lost it or do others look back and feel the same?
This sounds perfectly normal to me. Think about all the amazing photos from yesteryear that were taken with even more basic equipment.
What helped me most was taking a year-long course with weekly evening classes and monthly weekend workshops nearly 10 years ago. I have a few photos from before then that I like, but many more since. For me, the gear upgrades have made it possible to capture images that would have been much harder or impossible to capture with more basic equipment.
 
Yep - exactly the same here, I've been shooting macro for 13 or 14 years and the results I'm getting now are no better! I was shooting with a 60D and 100mm
Just been looking through some of my old photos taken back some 15 years ago and I think I should have kept my old camera gear and saved myself a fortune in the process.
I think looking back, some of the photos look better then I take now, Have I lost it or do others look back and feel the same?
Exactly the same here - looking back at some of the macros I used to shoot (Canon 60D and 100mm) and they're at least as good as anything I've produced in the last few years!
 
For me, the gear upgrades have made it possible to capture images that would have been much harder or impossible to capture with more basic equipment.
I may have posted similar before; but IMO the gear doesn’t improve me as a photographer, but it does make it easier to capture the moment perfectly.

When I started photographing rally cars 40 years ago, I’d tramp into a forest and with my 2.5 fps manual focus camera, I’d pre focus on a point near the apex of the bend. I’d then shoot 1 frame of every car, and hopefully some of the cars would be in focus.

It took literally 20 yrs for that to change dramatically for me. When I got a 5fps auto focus DSLR with a USM lens. Then I could shoot maybe 5 frames of the car in the corner, some of which would be sharp, and generally I’d get a keeper of every car. That was massive.

Now, I’ve got 20fps and of those 20 frames I’d be unlucky if more than a couple are OoF. So rather than a keeper every car, I can choose the ‘best’ angle.

My favourite rally image was shot in 1995, it’s not perfect, but it captures a special moment. And is one of about 20 images I still have from that event. With today’s gear I’d have hundreds.

Over that 40 years my eye for a location has also improved, and I’d hoped if today me with today’s gear could go back to shoot Rally GB in 95 I’d have loads of decent photos of the late Colin McRae on his way to lift the world championship instead of just one.
 
I think it's a two-edged sword, a bit like driving. Cars are now computers with 4 wheels, cameras are now computers with a bit of glass on the front, both are now far more capable than the person who is nominally in charge of them.

When I learned to drive, cars were unreliable, badly-designed and inherently dangerous and we needed to have an understanding of basic mechanics just to complete a journey, for when we had a puncture, or the car overheated or the ignition system got wet, and because steering, suspension and braking systems were so poor we had to have a basic understanding of physics just to get round a corner without ending up in a ditch, modern cars do all the thinking for us and very largely compensate for our lack of knowledge and skill.

Cameras are pretty much the same, they now work so well, autofocus so quickly and allow so many shots to be taken per second, in lighting conditions that would have been impossible just a few years ago, that there's a tendency to switch off our brains when we switch on the computer camera.

Going back to the question, my photos of today SHOULD be much better than those of 20 or even 50 years ago, but I think that over-reliance on technology and laziness has stopped that happening; certainly they're sharper, but sharpness is only one factor, and by no means the most important.
 
Going back to the question, my photos of today SHOULD be much better than those of 20 or even 50 years ago, but I think that over-reliance on technology and laziness has stopped that happening; certainly they're sharper, but sharpness is only one factor, and by no means the most important.

This. And worded much better than I could.
 
Ha ha recently done this and no regrets, due to health issues several years ago I switched to mirrorless MFT and sold all my dslr stuff , but earlier this year I had a touch of nostalgia and bought back into the Nikon F mount ,now have a D500 ,a 150-600 plus a few other lenses , and not regretting it one little bit .
I still have my Olympus gear but am enjoying the Nikon so much it’s become my go to camera . The AF is lightning fast and most importantly for me even without bird I.d it seems to nail Birds Eye’s really accurately . The addition of XQD cards has helped as well there ultra fast compared to SD cards .
I do miss the silent shutter and 20fps at times but the results are virtually identical between both systems,, and as others have said at the moment the price of dslr lenses has reached a very affordable level.
Whether or not it’s still viable when the light drops in the winter remains to be seen ?
 
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Photographs are not just about technology. Based on success in competitions, I peaked in 2016. It would be nice to blame equipment but this would not be true. The fact is that much of the competition has improved but also I have stopped improving. I am also much older now and more restricted in travel so not so often in the right place. IQ is much better now but not much use if you do not even capture the shot.

Dave
 
... but sharpness is only one factor, and by no means the most important.
This is true.

To me, the most important factor is: "why am I recording this?" If you don't ask yourself that question, the most magical camera in the world won't help.
 
I have a couple of old Canon compacts bought new in the late noughties an S90 and an SX120is and the images they produce are more than acceptable for my needs In certain situations. I've probably had my moneys worth several times over,and they are still working well.
 
My first camera was a Halina STB Flashmatic 110 Tele - Camera and now I have 4 digital cameras Canon 7Dii, Sony NEX5R, Sone A6600, Canon R7 and I love them ! lol
The quality is amazing, and the features make photography so much more accessible, easier, and fun. I do not miss film as their is a linier cost to taking photos, and for some that will be a limiting factor. Now the limiting factor is memory cards, and batteries ! lol
 
Going back to the question, my photos of today SHOULD be much better than those of 20 or even 50 years ago, but I think that over-reliance on technology and laziness has stopped that happening...
I find the opposite. But I was never a technically minded photographer. All I have ever wanted to do is frame a shot and time the shutter release right.

All this technology we now have helps me enormously. No longer do I have to worry about exposure as the camera usually does an excellent job and even if I mess that up slightly I can sort it in post. Focusing is much easier with autofocus. I'm no longer restricted by film speeds in low light so can take photos at hand-holdable shutter speeds that were impossible with HP4 or whatever it was. I can shoot in colour and black and white for every frame if I want to. The benefits go on.

All I have to concentrate on now is what was always foremost in my mind, the picture in the viewfinder. I'm not saying I make better pictures these days (the ratio of good to bad is probably lower) but I take more good photos as I'm not worrying about the cost of the film etc.
 
I find the opposite. But I was never a technically minded photographer. All I have ever wanted to do is frame a shot and time the shutter release right.

All this technology we now have helps me enormously. No longer do I have to worry about exposure as the camera usually does an excellent job and even if I mess that up slightly I can sort it in post. Focusing is much easier with autofocus. I'm no longer restricted by film speeds in low light so can take photos at hand-holdable shutter speeds that were impossible with HP4 or whatever it was. I can shoot in colour and black and white for every frame if I want to. The benefits go on.

All I have to concentrate on now is what was always foremost in my mind, the picture in the viewfinder. I'm not saying I make better pictures these days (the ratio of good to bad is probably lower) but I take more good photos as I'm not worrying about the cost of the film etc.
Fair enough, photography is a very broad church, we're all different and there are no rights or wrongs. I'm very different from you in the sense that I AM technically-minded. I suspect that that's just my nature, but it may be because, when I started out, there was no digital and no automation of any kind, so if we didn't understand the technicalities, any good results would be down to luck.
My first camera was a Halina STB Flashmatic 110 Tele - Camera and now I have 4 digital cameras Canon 7Dii, Sony NEX5R, Sone A6600, Canon R7 and I love them ! lol
The quality is amazing, and the features make photography so much more accessible, easier, and fun. I do not miss film as their is a linier cost to taking photos, and for some that will be a limiting factor. Now the limiting factor is memory cards, and batteries ! lol
I'm not sure about that. My camera gets through batteries at an alarming rate when using live view, but I always start off with a full battery, with a spare fully-charged one and as soon as a battery dies it goes on charge, no problem. My very first digital camera would only take about 9 shots per pair. And the same applies to storage, 9 shots again, big cards weren't available back then and anyway the cost was around £1 per megabyte:(
 
15 years ago I was probably using a Canon 20D, 5D at best. Things have definitely changed for the better since then.

My journey, mostly forwards. Sorry for the long post.

Film.
Kodak Instamatic 36. I took it on days out and holidays but I couldn't freeze movement and the sky would likely be blown in many pictures.
Other compact cameras. More of the same.
Nikon / Canon SLR's. At last I could freeze motion and capture detail and colour in the sky but I was at still at the mercy of whoever processed the film.
RF's. More of the same but manual focus.

Digital.
Fiji S602 pro zoom. I was in control of processing and I could have a print in my hand the same day but there were backward steps as the camera was so slow to react it was really only useable for still scenes and posed shots.
Digital compacts. Very small, they fit in a pocket, Good for some things and when reduced DR was enough.
Canon APS-C DSLR. Sort of back to the abilities of my Nikon SLR but with low DR, noisy shadows when boosted and constant sensor contamination plus the kit was big fat and heavy and a 28mm lens was somehow now a 40mm? Baffling... I didn't see that coming.
Canon 5D. A definite improvement over everything that I'd had before but still big fat and heavy and with even more constant sensor contamination and the noise was still there in the shadows. Still, my 50mm was 50mm again.
Phones. Mostly awful for photography. IMO. Emergency, lazy and social media use only. IMO.
Panasonic MFT. What is this? Matching and maybe exceeding the 5D in some areas but smaller and lighter and with an EVF, WYSIWYG, focusing anywhere in the frame, seeing the exposure and the DoF. Newer models bring eye detect giving more composition options and better IQ easily eclipsing the big fat and heavy 5D. Could this be the future? Oh, and also taking me into the past with old MF film era lenses. Lenses subject to the crop factor though.
Sony A7. The future! By far the best camera I've ever had to date giving by far the best results. Carrying on what started with MFT and also with old MF lenses, and no crop factor.
Fuji X100. No real improvement over MFT. Nice controls but also with some backward steps as a package. IMO. Move on...
Sony A7III. Exceeding the responsiveness of the A7, better focus and better IQ.

For me time and changes in tech have brought real improvements in IQ and in abilities. The new tech enables me to take more candid snap shots and to freeze movement. It also allows greater compositional freedom and allows me to focus accurately on a subjects eye just about anywhere in the frame and in just about any lighting and enables me to get different perspectives without having to kneel or lay down, I can just lower the camera and compose on the back screen. I take most of my people pictures at other than eye level now and that technique can also be used for scenic pictures too.

The features and abilities of processing software come into all this too. Things have moved on a lot since the awful Silkypix I started with. Rawshooter essentials was a big step forward, then CS2 and I'm now on PS Release 25.12.4. Each new version has brought new abilities giving better results.

If someone put a gun to my head I could pick up a DSLR from years ago and use it but there'd be downsides. Variations between bodies and lenses, micro adjust, not being able to focus anywhere in the frame, reduced compositional freedom, no eye detect, the limitations of OVF's, no WYSIWYG, reduced DR, more noise, fixed back screen, shutter mechanism that sounds like an anvil being thrown into a tin bath. So no. I don't want to go back, I want to keep the new aids and abilities.
 
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Looking back Bill I feel I should grab an old canon 40d and 400 f5.6 for some birding looking at the results I managed in the past lol
You can definitely get good results with that combination - however I think you should find it that with poor light the noise is not that good or you need. I took this with a Canon 400 D and Tamron 150-600mm in 2015

IMG_9720hummingbird by davholla2002, on Flickr


I like it but the light was quite good.

This was 2022 with a Canon 7D MKII

EF7A8377-CR2_DxO_DeepPRIMECockoftherock by davholla2002, on Flickr

The light was appalling - I don't think I could have taken this with a 40D with a more modern camera I could had a higher ISO and maybe tried slightly faster shutter speed. (It was ISO 16000 and 1/100 shutter speed).

On the subject of appalling light - winter will be coming soon.
 
Many decades ago, I received some advice from an old and very experienced commercial photographer...

"There are only two types of photographer: those who know exactly why they want to make a particular picture and those who really have no idea. Be the first type, your pictures might never be great pictures but they'll always be good pictures."​
 
In the days before we knew too much we probably photographed subjects that had a more sentimental appeal. And, now that we do I suspect we are a little more dispassionate. That's what happens when you grow up, I suppose.
 
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In the days before we knew too much we probably photographed subjects that had a more sentimental appeal. And, now that we do I suspect we are a little more dispassionate. That's what happens when you grow up, I suppose.

At my ripe old age I have gone back to taking more photos of family. (mainly grandchildren), and holidays than any others .......... some years ago it was mainly wildlife, particularly birds and close ups of nature.
 
Would those from the days of film only cameras be able to comment on whether or not the skill level of photographers would have been considered higher back then, compared with now where prosumer cameras are so accessible?
 
I started with film in '82.

I got good with film but I've improved significantly with the advent of digital.
 
Would those from the days of film only cameras be able to comment on whether or not the skill level of photographers would have been considered higher back then, compared with now where prosumer cameras are so accessible?
Not until you define "skill level",

Do you mean technically proficient at setting exposure controls, processing film and making prints or do you mean able to see and capture a particular instant?
 
I started back in 1972 with film, developing B&W in 1976 and winding my own film into reusable cartridges. Yes I would say photography was harder and more skill was required along with more time and patience, you only had 36 shots at most generally so did't want to waste shots. I shot a lot of B&W, then from the 1980s mainly shot slide film.
 
Would those from the days of film only cameras be able to comment on whether or not the skill level of photographers would have been considered higher back then, compared with now where prosumer cameras are so accessible?

That's a tricky one. It was an art, no doubt about it. Or it might not have spawned so many top photographers. And you have to factor in development, an arcane skill only practised by a very few nowadays. So yes, they were clever dickies. If you consider that necessity was the mother of invention.
 
Would those from the days of film only cameras be able to comment on whether or not the skill level of photographers would have been considered higher back then, compared with now where prosumer cameras are so accessible?
Way higher, in the sense of knowledge (rather than skill)
When I started out there were very few cameras that had a built-in light meter, and those that did exist were poor to say the least. Same goes for rangefinders, clip-on ones were available but were poor. Hand-held light meters were available, but very expensive, mostly we used educated guesswork, which (even with black and white) required a combination of luck and skill, and with transparency film, mainly Kodachrome, exposure lattitude was very limited. And the technology that did exist was mainly on 35mm cameras, most serious photographers used medium and large format, and although some MF cameras did have a bit of basic technology - mainly Rollie and Mamiya, they were incredibly expensive and were pretty much limited to pros because of that.

And here's a simple but obvious example. When using flash we had to estimate the flash to subject distance accurately to work out the required aperture, this was a pretty basic skill but an essential one.

And then there was the cost factor, we can now set our cameras to bracket exposure automatically if we want to, back then not only did we not have that technology, we also had to pay to take extra shots, so we didn't. That applied to pro photographers as well as to amateurs; my first boss sacked people who wasted shots, so much so that we all clubbed together to buy extra film so that we could hide the odd mistake.

And, when it came to large format, the knowledge level had to be in a different class entirely, almost all shots required a good understanding of the Scheimflug principle, and even viewing a dark, upside-down and reversed image on a ground-glass screen required a level of skill . . .

But, an unintended consequence of these challenges is that we all lived by the maxim "measure twice cut once", and thought about every shot and didn't just waste our time and money taking shots that weren't worth the effort. And, in order to concentrate on the shot itself, we had to both understand the physics and camera settings to the point that we could operate the camera without any conscious thought process . . .

And this cut-down explanation doesn't even include developing and printing. Back then, nearly all serious photographers did it themselves, and this required both a lot of skill and knowledge, as well as care. We might say that Photoshop has replaced those skills, as well as enormously expanding the possibilities, but it isn't the same, mistakes can be corrected. I still have an old film camera and I keep meaning to use it but don't, although I greatly respect those who do. I think that my main reason for not shooting on film is that I no longer have the space to do my own printing
 
Would those from the days of film only cameras be able to comment on whether or not the skill level of photographers would have been considered higher back then, compared with now where prosumer cameras are so accessible?
I first started using my dads box brownie at around 8 years old , then forgot about taking photos till my late teens when a few friends started taking pics but I tended to shoot 35mm slides back then , should really have got more into it like one of my best friends Richard Young self styled king of the paparizzi . My real interest started once married as my wife’s grandad did his own developing and taught me how to,I was hooked it was even better as in those days there’s was a local shop in Dalston ,London that sold surplus photo paper and chemicals plus the gear . ..
I spent the next 20 years progressing through a few 35mm cameras and into two and a quarter square cameras my fave being a mamiyaflex c330 with a full set of lenses . . I also did quite well over those early years shooting nudes ,my favourite model being madeleine smith who later moved on film and t.v work ..
That all changed when divorce reared its ugly head . And I lost all my old negatives to the bitch .. and the next few years were restricted to just family and holiday photos with new family . Fast forward to the dawn of digital and my youngest son took an interest in bird photography the rest as they say is history .. skill levels never came into it we learned as we went along
 
I may have posted similar before; but IMO the gear doesn’t improve me as a photographer, but it does make it easier to capture the moment perfectly.
I think you're spot on here.

In the mid to late 2000s I had four thirds DSLRs and a cocker spaniel that loved water so I took many photos of him leaping through the water but the low framerate and slow AF tracking mixed with trying to time the water splashes meant over the years I only have a handful of photos I particularly like where it all came together. I have another cocker spaniel that loves the water and a Nikon Z8 which makes getting the shots I want an absolute breeze thanks to the fantastic AF, high fps and blackout free shooting since I can get the timing I want, easily track the subject and most photos are in sharp focus.

Being able to shoot completely silently can also be very useful in quiet environments where the shutter noise is noticeable since it allows me to take more shots so I have more angles and no risk of a shot being spoiled by someone blinking or something else being out.
 
So new cameras have pretty much become point and shoot and you get just what you want and hundreds of them, does this make that special photo of less value because it was done without effort?
 
So new cameras have pretty much become point and shoot and you get just what you want and hundreds of them, does this make that special photo of less value because it was done without effort?
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'll try again - what has improved me as a photographer has been learning and training and that is independent of the gear. The gear improvements have made certain types of shots, especially thinking of ones that need good auto focus tracking, easier to achieve than they used to be. I say easier, not easy, because everything else about creating that image remains as challenging as it always was. Sometimes, and I'm thinking of studio or landscape, I choose a camera with fewer features so that I am not distracted by them and can focus more on the image I want to capture. I hope this makes some sense.
 
So new cameras have pretty much become point and shoot and you get just what you want and hundreds of them, does this make that special photo of less value because it was done without effort?
Absolutely not.
Photography is still a skill, a great photographer puts loads of effort into getting to the right place at the right time and choosing the decisive moment.
A good photographer is capable of seeing a photo and finding the right time, maybe including some planning or effort.
Most people don’t put in that much effort or thought. They just point their camera or phone at something that looks nice.

Like I said before, it’s about keeper rate, and the reward for my efforts. Traipsing miles through forests finding the right spot and waiting for the decisive moment used to get me some good photos. The same effort will now get me hundreds of technically good photos , but it’s not without effort. Just the rewards are greater
 
I can see where people are coming from.

For me, the move to mirrorless with a digital viewfinder has been a God send.

I have a degenerative eye condition which reduces my ability to see in the dark. Mirrorless has massively help me to take the same pictures I took before, which I now couldn’t with a dSLR.

And then related, 3D tracking is out of this world.

But these are crutches to an extent rather than massive leaps toward. But I wouldn’t want to go back!
 
I go to a fair few locations and when you hear people machine gunning and collecting photos what could be described as video, I often heard of people saying I took 4000 photos and got 95% in focus keepers.... is there any skill in that? Pro capture where you are guaranteed to get the shot is another no skill really needed to get the butterfly in flight for example. I think nowadays emotive photography is by far the hardest to attain and still takes skill and I for one am in awe of people that can create such images. Sorry if I am sounding a bit pedantic but i find it quite interesting how people value todays equipment over the older gear.
 
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