How does it work with second photographers?

[Kerioak]

I occasionally see people asking for, or applying to be second photographers. How does this usually work? Say I got the chance to be a photographer at an event for which I have to pay a donation but it would be useful to have a second photographer to cover different aspects.

Do I pay them for the day, a percentage of any sales of joint or their images?
Do they give me their memory cards so I can download and edit ?

What happens if the sales are minimal and don't cover the costs of paying to be at the event?

Does anyone have any answers and advice please?

 

[pxl8]

I use 2nd togs for events and I pay on a commission basis. Events can be a bit hit and miss and sometimes it can be a waste of time but on average it works out pretty good. I always work on a commission with the event itself too so if sales are bad we share the loss, if sales are good we share the rewards. I'm also trying out new ideas on the business side of things to keep things a little more consistent in the future to the benefit of all, even the punters

Depending on the size of the event I pay up to 20% of each sale (gross), the tog shoots using my cards and I'll post them a dvd of their shots a couple of days later - I've no problem with them having the shots for their own folio/records/etc. - after all they took them and there's a lot to be learnt from reviewing them.

 

[scubataff]

I use 2nd togs for events and I pay on a commission basis. Events can be a bit hit and miss and sometimes it can be a waste of time but on average it works out pretty good. I always work on a commission with the event itself too so if sales are bad we share the loss, if sales are good we share the rewards. I'm also trying out new ideas on the business side of things to keep things a little more consistent in the future to the benefit of all, even the punters

Depending on the size of the event I pay up to 20% of each sale (gross), the tog shoots using my cards and I'll post them a dvd of their shots a couple of days later - I've no problem with them having the shots for their own folio/records/etc. - after all they took them and there's a lot to be learnt from reviewing them.

isn't it a copyright issue ***, you say you post the tog the pics he/she took for there own portfolio but surley as THEY took the pics isn't it their copyright, or would the main tog get the second tog to sign away their rights first?

Martyn

 

[pxl8]

isn't it a copyright issue ***, you say you post the tog the pics he/she took for there own portfolio but surley as THEY took the pics isn't it their copyright, or would the main tog get the second tog to sign away their rights first?

Martyn

Effectively yes, the 2nd tog is assigning commercial rights to me so I can sell the shots to the punters. The 2nd tog can use them for non-commercial reasons.

 

[Kerioak]

Thank you Pxl8, this is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know, do you have a form of contract assigning you commerical rights? If so would you be kind enough to let me have a copy?

 

[pxl8]

Sorry I don't. I guess I should really but the togs I've worked with have all been utterly trustworthy and it's never been an issue.

 

[SimonTALM]

I would agree with PXL8, I'm currently trying to break in to the Events market and for the first one I agreed with dolomitefan who helped me out on the sales side a 20% of profit deal and I'd cover all his expenses for the weekend - the idea being as he was selling the photos he would be incentivised to sell. Unfortunately I didn't actually make any profit as I hired the printer I needed which took all the gross profit out but I'm still going to give him £30 'cos I'm kind (and might want his help again in the future ). As I'm about to buy the kit I will probably work on a % of each sale in future.

As for the copyright it could be argued that they were employed by you as a second shooter so the copyright belongs to you but this may have tax and other legal implications. In reality if you work with people you know and are fair to them it shouldn't be an issue. However, a simple statement in an email to them when you offer them the work clarifiying your chosen arrangement should be sufficent, if they turn up and do the work I beleive it is deemed in contract law that they have accepted those terms.