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Sneeks

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Richard
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Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my home studio setup and would appreciate some advice. I'm currently using my Sony A77 with two hot shoe flashes, 56 & 58 guide numbers. Both work well but I would like to get something that is mains powered and offers more creative options.

Not looking to spend more than £350 for now so a two light kit is probably out of the question, especially one with sufficient power output. I can happily continue to use my hot shoe flashes for fill or backdrop lighting. I've looked at Bowens and Lencarta flash heads, which make and model would you recommend?

To begin with I'd like to pair the flash with a soft box and a reflector, I can buy other attachments later.
 
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Yes something along those lines although I think it may be better for me to buy a more powerful flash. If doing that I may buy only one now and another at a later date. Everything needs to be easily transported in a car too.
 
Sneeks said:
Yes something along those lines although I think it may be better for me to buy a more powerful flash. If doing that I may buy only one now and another at a later date. Everything needs to be easily transported in a car too.
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What are you shooting that makes you think you'll need more power?
 
For now probably nothing other than half length and full length portrait photos of individuals or small groups but there may be times when I'm shooting band promo photos in large rooms where the extra power may be beneficial. If I buy low power flash now then I might end up having to upgrade in the future, possibly better to avoid that step now.

The Smartflash 200 have a guide number of 100 which makes them just short of double the power of my hot shoe flashes. Elite Pro or Ultra Pro 300's would give me a GN of 160. The 200's may have to be worked hard at full power more often than the 300+ options?
 
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Whilst the 'maths' might be close comparing the GN's you have to remember that studio flashes are designed to work harder. Also, whilst you might work in larger rooms, you won't really want to be moving the flash farther from the subject because that affects the quality of the light.

The subject to flash distance is a qualitative rather than quantitative decision.

If you buy a lower power flash first, and find you'd like more power, there's nothing to stop you buying a higher powered unit later (the 1st light will become your fill). If you buy a higher powered unit first, you will probably buy a lower powered unit next anyway. It's your money, but I'd suggest spending more on optional modifiers than on more power, again lighting should be about light quality rather than raw power (unless you're specifically trying to light something large or from a long way away).

Also re guide no's, see the other post re calculations, the headline 56 or 68 GN's are probably far from real life usage figures), and as Garry will explain, you don't really measure studio flash power by GN, as it doesn't really work that well.
 
You may need less power than you think - 100-200Ws is usually sufficient for regular home portraiture, and the downside of more powerful units is they won't turn down low enough for some techniques.

GNs are not a good comparison with studio flash, Ws is better (though not perfect either). Rule of thumb, a 200Ws head will give you about f/16 with a 100cm softbox at 1.0m and ISO100, and bear in mind that bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power output.

£350 is enough to get going, look at Lencarta and Elinchrom D-Lites.
 
As others have said, raw power is less important than the way it's used, and is far less important than it used to be back in the days when everyone shot on film, or used digital cameras that only produced reasonable results at 100 ISO.

Guide numbers are often overstated, and in any event are measured at the benchmark 100 ISO setting. All DSLR's are now fine at higher ISO settings, and some are excellent at even very high settings. What most DSLR cameras can't do is to operate at very low ISO, so if the flash heads are too powerful it's a much bigger problem than if they aren't powerful enough.

Here's an article that may help, on the Lencarta Lighting Blog. Unfortunately it lost it's pictures when we moved it to a new server, but the text is still there.
 
Thanks for all of the comments, I'll have a look and compare the various makes and kits which are available. The two main contenders are the Lencarta Smartflash and Bowens Gemini 200Ws kits.

My main reason for thinking I should avoid lower powered flash heads was due to advice I received from my college lecturer while attending a studio photography course.
 
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Sneeks said:
Thanks for all of the comments, I'll have a look and compare the various makes and kits which are available

My main reason for thinking I should avoid lower powered flash heads was due to advice I received from my college lecturer while attending a studio photography course.
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As Garry said, power was generally more important when shooting film at low ISO (and fixed). Today, ISO400-800 is often perfectly usable and that ramps the effective power up massively, plus you can change it any time.

I've tested a lot of studio flash heads and the figures I gave above will not be far out, ie 200Ws gives f/16 with a 100cm softbox at 1.0m, ISO100. That's quite a good starting point for portraits, but if you tend to shoot maybe larger groups from greater distance, then that's going to change things. Personally, I use 200Ws heads and rarely go above quarter power for portraiture. I also like the new Elinchrom D-Lites Ones very much and they are sufficient for most things with only 100Ws.
 
Some useful info here. I've scrapped looking at 500Ws lights and have narrowed my choice down to either the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 x 200Ws kit, Lencarta ElitePro 300Ws twin head kit or the Bowens Gemini 2 x 200Ws kit.

Two softboxes would probably be best and these are only offered for under £400 with the SmartFlash kit. I do appreciate that softboxes can be a pain if having to often transport my flash equipment so maybe one softbox and a umbrella would be a better compromise?
 
Sneeks said:
Some useful info here. I've scrapped looking at 500Ws lights and have narrowed my choice down to either the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 x 200Ws kit, Lencarta ElitePro 300Ws twin head kit or the Bowens Gemini 2 x 200Ws kit.

Two softboxes would probably be best and these are only offered for under £400 with the SmartFlash kit. I do appreciate that softboxes can be a pain if having to often transport my flash equipment so maybe one softbox and a umbrella would be a better compromise?
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It's usually easier to be creative with one softbox and one umbrella, it's also cheaper and easier than having 2 softboxes
 
Sneeks said:
Some useful info here. I've scrapped looking at 500Ws lights and have narrowed my choice down to either the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 x 200Ws kit, Lencarta ElitePro 300Ws twin head kit or the Bowens Gemini 2 x 200Ws kit.

Two softboxes would probably be best and these are only offered for under £400 with the SmartFlash kit. I do appreciate that softboxes can be a pain if having to often transport my flash equipment so maybe one softbox and a umbrella would be a better compromise?
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Sure, but you need to make your own estimate of power requirements, depending on use. The figures I've given above are a good starting for home portraiture, but exposure changes a lot with distance (inverse square law).

For example, while everything's fine at 1-1.5m or so with a softbox for solo portraits and couples shooting at maybe f/5.6, if you change that to a larger group then you need a lot more power. The lights might need to go back to 3 or 4m, so that's two or three stops of light lost, plus you might need to shoot at f/11 for depth of field and that's another couple of stops. That's a potential drop of five stops - eg 100Ws x 5 stops = 3200Ws :eek: - okay, perhaps an extreme example, but you get the point and when a manufacturer claims a power range of five stops, that can soon get eaten up (especially as a '5 stops range' is actually a difference of only four stops).
 
I think I'd be happy with 300Ws flashes as these should easily cope with my requirements and give me a little more if needed. I can purchase a ElitePro twin head kit with umbrellas for £399 or buy one UltraPro 600Ws light with stand, 7" reflector and umbrella for £314.96 when they are in stock.

A one light setup may be enough when combined with my two hot shoe flashes and large reflector which I already own.
 
I have two Lencarta's UltraPro 300s and find the power sufficient for most of my needs, shooting products and portraits. In fact I'm thinking about buying a third one for that odd occasion when two is not enough and I don't fancy using my speedlite.

My large double diffused softbox eats quite a lot of light and sometimes when using small aperture I wish for more power, but it's so rare I can't justify spending more. I might buy UltraPro 600 instead of 300 and mix it with two 300s, but I'm not sure is there a point really.
 
It's finally time to place my order and I've narrowed my choice down to either the Lencarta ElitePro 300Ws twin head kit or the Bowens Gemini 400Ws twin head kit.

£399 for the Lencarta minus a kit bag or £539 for the Bowens including a kit bag. Looks like I'd be paying close to £450 for the Lencarta flashes with a kit bag so it may be worth the additional £90 spend and buy the more powerful Bowens kit.

As an added incentive I can buy the Bowens kit locally and save on postage cost.
 
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Well, that's your choice. But don't get hung up on power. The Bowens uses (not necessarily delivers) 1/3rd stop more power than the Lencarta. 1/3rd stop, even if it actually delivers it, is nothing - you can DOUBLE the effective power simply by shooting at 200 ISO instead of at 100.

What you should really be looking at is performance and important features, fan cooling for example.
 
I have noticed that fan cooling is not a feature of the Bowens unit and the flash speed is double on the Lencarta, 1/2000 rather than 1/1000.
 
Order placed with Lencarta, hopefully it will arrive tomorrow so I can experiment with it over the holiday weekend.
 
Sneeks said:
I have noticed that fan cooling is not a feature of the Bowens unit and the flash speed is double on the Lencarta, 1/2000 rather than 1/1000.
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If you want to shoot toddlers/kids then flash duration is probably the most important feature to consider. Improvisation can usually get you around any other problems :)
 
Flashes arrived today, had a quick look and they should prove useful.
 
Couple of minor issues which will hopefully be resolved, have emailed Lencarta.
 
Sneeks said:
Couple of minor issues which will hopefully be resolved, have emailed Lencarta.
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Anything we can help with? You may not get an immediate reply from Lencarta. Garry goes shooting at weekends - clays!
 
HoppyUK said:
Anything we can help with? You may not get an immediate reply from Lencarta. Garry goes shooting at weekends - clays!
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Nothing that can be fixed here I'm afraid, just a couple of minor hardware faults with the kit itself.
 
Sneeks said:
Nothing that can be fixed here I'm afraid, just a couple of minor hardware faults with the kit itself.
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What faults did you have......been thinking about buying some at the end of this month!
 
Sir SR said:
What faults did you have......been thinking about buying some at the end of this month!
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Nothing of great concern. One of the light stands does not have a working air damped section and the bracket on the flash to secure it to the stand has a faulty thread which means the screw slides in and out rather than able to screw in properly.

Hopefully Lencarta are able to rectify these issues this coming week.
 
Sneeks said:
Nothing of great concern. One of the light stands does not have a working air damped section and the bracket on the flash to secure it to the stand has a faulty thread which means the screw slides in and out rather than able to screw in properly.

Hopefully Lencarta are able to rectify these issues this coming week.
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Ok. No deal breakers there then!! Birthday money to be spent on some lencarta lights. Just deciding between the UP 300 or UP 600.

S
 
Sir SR said:
Ok. No deal breakers there then!! Birthday money to be spent on some lencarta lights. Just deciding between the UP 300 or UP 600.

S
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Why not give Garry a buzz and see if you can pop around to his studio and have a hands on look . I'm sure that he will best advise you on your choice .
 
In the absence of an alternative suitable place to mention this - I ordered a Smartflash kit this week only to later find out it was out of stock (when I went chasing it). There aren't any due in until next week, but I needed it pronto! It's probably fair to say that I wasn't amused by the situation, albeit it wasn't a matter of life or death, which I tend to use as a guide for levels of importance!

I had to message Garry on TP yesterday to find out what was going on and that's when he discovered the problem for himself. I told him I needed the kit promptly so he arranged a free upgrade to the order and had it delivered to me this morning.

That's how you turn a negative customer experience into a positive one. Top man!! :thumbs:
 
BigJohn said:
Why not give Garry a buzz and see if you can pop around to his studio and have a hands on look . I'm sure that he will best advise you on your choice .
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I completely forgot he has a studio!! Is it in the Bradford/Leeds vacinity?

Ta

S
 
Yes, shooting today, and everything is a bit up in the air at the moment, partner of No.2 son is in labour, guess who is now looking after their 5 year old...

But hopefully will be able to work normally on Monday, and will sort out any problems then. And yes, my studio is in Bradford
 
Well, I'm now a grandfather again, he was born at 18:45 so his older sister is now back with her father and I'm free to go shooting again tomorrow and to get on with my work next week:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, I'm now a grandfather again, he was born at 18:45 so his older sister is now back with her father and I'm free to go shooting again tomorrow and to get on with my work next week:)
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Congratulations! Have you had to make the trip to BRI (had the pleasure of working there for two years, 6 months on labour ward!)?

S
 
Sir SR said:
Congratulations! Have you had to make the trip to BRI (had the pleasure of working there for two years, 6 months on labour ward!)?

S
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No, they live in Leeds. And I kept well clear of the hospital, my job was just looking after their 5 year old, who is delightful but hard work.
 
Congrats Garry, 'Grandad', best word in the dictionary.
 
My replacements arrived today and the faulty items were collected, will check everything tonight. Thanks for the quick turnaround Garry.
 
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