High Speed Sync and low aperture vs Sync Speed and high aperture

futureal33

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Something ive been wondering for a while.

In terms of getting identical exposure, of both the background and the subject, but ignoring DOF differences...Lets assume the scene needs either:

f2.0, 1/4000th, ISO 100 - Flash on HSS
f11, 1/125th, ISO 100 - flash syncing @ 1/125th

What would be the most efficient use of flash here?
 
If by "High Speed Synch" you mean using a flashgun as a strobe, producing a lot of low powered flashes in quick succession, which in effect produces a low powered studio light, it's obvious that there is a dramatic loss of light. The idea itself is very good, and is basically a development of the old FP flashbulbs that consisted of an elongated flash bulb that burned very slowly, long enough to cover the cycle of a focal plane shutter. This idea was implemented by Zeiss Ikon in (I think) 1953 to overcome the problem at that time that the maximum synch speed with FP shutters was just 1/30th second, so Zeiss came up with FP synch and Phillips came up with the bulbs, there is nothing new under the sun:)

f11, 1/125th, ISO 100 - flash syncing @ 1/125th will make much more efficient use of the light.
 
Something ive been wondering for a while.

In terms of getting identical exposure, of both the background and the subject, but ignoring DOF differences...Lets assume the scene needs either:

f2.0, 1/4000th, ISO 100 - Flash on HSS
f11, 1/125th, ISO 100 - flash syncing @ 1/125th

What would be the most efficient use of flash here?
From my understanding main reasons people want to use HSS is for freezing action in bright ambient condition, or beating the ambient. In a studio or a low light environment there isn't really much need for it. What do you want to achieve?
 
If by "High Speed Synch" you mean using a flashgun as a strobe, producing a lot of low powered flashes in quick succession, which in effect produces a low powered studio light, it's obvious that there is a dramatic loss of light. The idea itself is very good, and is basically a development of the old FP flashbulbs that consisted of an elongated flash bulb that burned very slowly, long enough to cover the cycle of a focal plane shutter. This idea was implemented by Zeiss Ikon in (I think) 1953 to overcome the problem at that time that the maximum synch speed with FP shutters was just 1/30th second, so Zeiss came up with FP synch and Phillips came up with the bulbs, there is nothing new under the sun:)

f11, 1/125th, ISO 100 - flash syncing @ 1/125th will make much more efficient use of the light.

Garry,
So you are saying in terms of overall subject brightness achieved with the flash, shooting it at those settings would produce more light onto the subject than it would using HSS?

The reason I ask, is that shooting at f11 is going to block a lot of the light out produced by a speedlite, whereas shooting at f2.0 is going to let more light from the flash in.... so there is a balancing act between the two, where the flash would be operating at maximum power (at f11) and High Speed Sync at 1/4000th
 
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Interesting article, thanks for the link.

I guess the only way to know for sure would be to try it out, with a variety of exposures all resulting in the same overall exposure.

Both those exposure values I listed above would give the same overall ambient exposure, so the only variable would be the HSS flash vs normal sync flash output. Should be a fairly easy thing to test
 
Garry,
So you are saying in terms of overall subject brightness achieved with the flash, shooting it at those settings would produce more light onto the subject than it would using HSS?

The reason I ask, is that shooting at f11 is going to block a lot of the light out produced by a speedlite, whereas shooting at f2.0 is going to let more light from the flash in.... so there is a balancing act between the two, where the flash would be operating at maximum power (at f11) and High Speed Sync at 1/4000th
Just test it and see,
You'll find that the loss of light caused by effectively firing in strobe mode, where the total power of the flash is spread over a relatively long period of time, substantially outweighs the potential benefit. It's do-able, but only at very short distances.

The real answer to either producing an effective fast shutter speed and/or reducing the impact of ambient light (where possible) is either to use a powerful portable flash system at the maximum normal synch speed of your camera, or to shoot at dawn/dusk, or both. Using a hotshoe flash for this does limit you quite a lot.
 
The main thing I got from the article was that in HSS the max GN is reduced, and then as SS is increased it is reduced even further. Running the flash at lower power due to a longer SS also reduces the GN, but it always stays ahead of HSS for a given exposure.

Typically HSS is used to kill the ambient with a wide aperture, or to freeze fast action. In the first case you could potentially get 2-3 stops more difference out of the flash by using a ND instead of HSS. Using an ND doesn't allow you to freeze fast motion.
 
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Normal flash sync will always win that contest. It must do, because with HSS, no matter what, at least some of the light is simply wasted as it falls on the closed shutter curtains. And at high shutter speeds, almost all of it is lost in this way. In round figures, just by using HSS at a fraction above the normal x-sync ceiling, you'll lose at least two stops of effective flash exposure, more likely three, and that loss rises pro-rata as shutter speed is increased. Lots of variables though - camera shutter cycle time, flash output in HSS mode, and how accurately those two factors are aligned to minimise wastage.

Anyway, I just tried it, using the OP's settings, though I couldn't get the ambient exposure to the right level at iso100, so used iso400 (and that's despite having over 800w of fluorescent light only 2ft from the subject!). Darkened studio, with no ambient light on the foreground, and no flash contaminating the background.
Edit: Canon 7D and 580EX gun.

1/125sec at f/11, iso400. Correct ambient exposure on the background, and correct on the foreground with flash at 1/32nd power.
1/4000sec at f/2 iso400. In HSS mode, the foreground flash exposure matched the background at 1/16th power.

That's an effective difference of six stops which shows that HSS is actually pretty useless for freezing action, as by the time you've got the shutter speed up high enough for that, there's precious little flash power left, and with a lot of action subjects the longer shooting distances make things much worse. The only solution to that is to gang multiple guns, as Dave Black does in this video clip, using an eight-gun rig. That seems to work (y)


What HSS is really good for, is fill-in flash in bright daylight when the shutter speed inevitably has to rise above x-sync. Portraits perhaps, at close-ish range, but not trying to over-power the sun - there's rarely enough poke for that. And in the same way, it works well when shooting at lower f/numbers for shallow DoF.
 
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