Hi chaps, I have a slight problem and wondered if anyone on here had a solution. Basically I am trying to photograph jack russells hunting rats around a farm at night for a pest control project. I have got everything sussed except i cannot get the action blur free. The rats are running, obviously, and despite trying various flash settings i cannot freeze the action. I am using a metz 70MZ and shooting at 400/sec between f10 and upwards........I cannot up the shutter speed as the shutter shows in the photo. Anyone have any ideas to solve this rather unusual thing....cheers henry
High speed flash
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Shutter speed shouldn't matter, the sensor will only really see the flash.
Do you have an example you can post here?
Phil V
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Forget the shutter speed, it's having zero effect on your image.
If you're getting movement blur using flash in pitch darkness, the answer is a higher power / shorter flash. Hopefully Richard will chime in soon, but I think a flashgun on lower power setting shortens the flash duration, so if you can get the flash closer / raise the ISO / open the aperture, to shorten the duration, that might improve results.
But again, don't get hung up on your shutter speed - if it really is pitch black, having the shutter open on B shouldn't make a difference (just for proof of concept - that's how those lightblulb shattering pictures are shot, with a shutter open in Bulb and a sound or movement trigger to fire the flash)
If you're getting movement blur using flash in pitch darkness, the answer is a higher power / shorter flash. Hopefully Richard will chime in soon, but I think a flashgun on lower power setting shortens the flash duration, so if you can get the flash closer / raise the ISO / open the aperture, to shorten the duration, that might improve results.
But again, don't get hung up on your shutter speed - if it really is pitch black, having the shutter open on B shouldn't make a difference (just for proof of concept - that's how those lightblulb shattering pictures are shot, with a shutter open in Bulb and a sound or movement trigger to fire the flash)
So, are we talking about opening the aperture on the flash unit, raising the ISO on the flash unit and seeing what I get.?
Sorry for sounding thick, but i really struggle. I have all the gear and no bloody idea!!! despite being keen on photography for 24 years!! ha!
Sorry for sounding thick, but i really struggle. I have all the gear and no bloody idea!!! despite being keen on photography for 24 years!! ha!
Phil V
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Well I have no idea what the specs are on that flashgun, but I know a man who might.
Your question is more technical than you thought.
The actual question is about speed of flash guns, which vary a lot more than you'd think, though my gut reaction is that most fairly high spec flash guns should be able to do what you want.
Ask a mod to move this to lighting and studio and you'll get the answer quicker, it's where the brains hang out for these kinds of questions.
Your question is more technical than you thought.
The actual question is about speed of flash guns, which vary a lot more than you'd think, though my gut reaction is that most fairly high spec flash guns should be able to do what you want.
Ask a mod to move this to lighting and studio and you'll get the answer quicker, it's where the brains hang out for these kinds of questions.
Ivan S
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What camera are you using, 400th of a second is unusual when firing flash, just to add my on board flash can freeze the motion of a pc fan running at near 1500 rpm so a few rats in pitch black should be doable, use a hosting site to upload an image, here is a free one https://dumpyourphoto.com/# you don't even need to sign up, then used the advanced links and copy and paste the very last link
I know I don't need the shutter that high, i've just been experimenting.....tonight I'm thinking of setting the flash oniso1250, zoom 105mm and the ap at 45....then shoot the camera on 320/sec at 400 iso and f14.........
what you guys reckon??
what you guys reckon??
Phil V
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I'm not familiar with the flash, but a quick web search shows its quite powerful. How far away are you shooting from? I'm assuming the flash is camera mounted?
The big 'power' issue with flash is distance. The flash only has one 'brightness', so to create a lot of light, it just burns longer, so the harder you make the flash work, the longer the effective exposure. If you're using a lot of the flashes power, you're making hard work for yourself.
So as I said before; your task is to get the flash closer to the subject, use a higher ISO or open the lens aperture, each of which will mean the flash doesn't have to work as hard (in this case shortening the time the flash fires for). All assuming the flash is on TTL control - so it'll do the thinking for you, if the flash is Manually set, do one or more of the above and turn it down to suit.
Ivan S
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I am not sure why your flash has ISO settings and aperture settings, hmm, I'd say 1/60 on the camera, ISO 200 or as low as it can go and an aperture as open as you can get so the lowest f number you can set f3.5 or f5.6 or just the lowest, depends on what lens really, also what distance are you shooting these at as that will have a fairly big impact on anything you do.
Phil V
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You need to click the ''Advanced links'' button and grab the one that says ''UBB image''
Looks like camera shake/movement to me, or bad focus?
What he said.
Whichever, it's not the flash causing that issue.
HoppyUK
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Assuming Phil means me (Richard) then he's right - lower the flash gun power and that will reduce the flash duration dramatically. If it's on full power, the effective flash duration is probably about 1/600-1/800sec; turn it down to say 1/8th power and that will reduce to maybe 1/4000sec or less and that will freeze most things.
To compensate for the reduced flash brightness, use a lower f/number (open the aperture more) and/or raise the ISO. Your problem may then be trouble in focusing accurately with the reduced depth of field, but that's the way to reduce movement blur.
On a 50D, max x-sync speed is 1/250sec so you will definitely be getting the shutter showing at 1/400sec, at the bottom of the image. I'm guessing you're not noticing it because the background is dark or black anyway, but as already said, the shutter speed is irrelevant here.
To compensate for the reduced flash brightness, use a lower f/number (open the aperture more) and/or raise the ISO. Your problem may then be trouble in focusing accurately with the reduced depth of field, but that's the way to reduce movement blur.
On a 50D, max x-sync speed is 1/250sec so you will definitely be getting the shutter showing at 1/400sec, at the bottom of the image. I'm guessing you're not noticing it because the background is dark or black anyway, but as already said, the shutter speed is irrelevant here.
Problem is,the action is too fast in the dark for the lens to focus automatically. So I have it pre-set at about 8 feet. I like a high(ish) f value to give me a tad more DOF. It's really very, very hard.
the flash, camera and torch (to see the object) is mounted on a bar, then the centre of the torch is the centre of the lens, otherwise it would be impossible to frame the subject due to the speed of movement.
I know i'm asking alot but i feel I'm nearly there, its just the 'blur' that is stopping me getting the pics I want.... the problem is the subjects are always moving very very fast.
Any more thoughts??
the flash, camera and torch (to see the object) is mounted on a bar, then the centre of the torch is the centre of the lens, otherwise it would be impossible to frame the subject due to the speed of movement.
I know i'm asking alot but i feel I'm nearly there, its just the 'blur' that is stopping me getting the pics I want.... the problem is the subjects are always moving very very fast.
Any more thoughts??
hi, yes, its all panning.the rat is moving at full speed, i have to have everything on a bar otherwise it would be impossible to compose a shot. They are a small subject and very, very fast indeed. The torch on the bar serves as a marker as to where the lens is centred. Theres a lot of guesswork and it's difficult logistically.
Phil V
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Give the camera it's full sync speed 1/200?
I hope that aperture is supposed to read 4.5 not 45 (the small numbers don't ask as much of the flash
And get your camera steady. shooting something moving that fast takes a lot of practice.
Ivan S
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No way to set up some kind of run for the critters to take? you need to get that camera set nice and stable to pull off a blur free shot I think, the rabbit looks much less blurred than the grass in that shot, suggest's to me the panning is the issue really
Hi Ivan, it's impossible not to pan, due to the nature of things. The speed of the subject is very very fast.
HoppyUK
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I think this is the handbook for your gun? http://www.metz.de/index.php?eID=tx...hash=ddd74371119e808de69d1040645a364fcd8c90eb It has a manual power setting option, though you need the adapter unit for this.
The spec also shows an unusually long flash duration characteristic, so you may need to turn it down quite a lot if the action is really quick. If you can't set the flash power manually, then you can force the gun to reduce the flash duration on auto by pushing the ISO up and reducing the lens f/number. It will then have to cut the power (and hence the duration) to prevent over-exposure.
Thanks Hoppy, I will try that tonight...
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You're making life far too complicated for yourself...
1. Forget about panning, just set a wider angle on the lens so that you can be (almost) sure of getting the subject in the shot, then crop the image to get rid of the bits you don't want. This will affect image quality, but the results should still be acceptable
2. Set a fairly small aperture (say f/11) to ensure adequate depth of field
3. Turn the flash power down, this will make the flash duration shorter, so that it can freeze movement better (although this isn't actually the problem in your sample photo)
4. Take a test shot. If it is too dark, increase the CAMERA ISO setting, until you're happy with the result. Increasing the ISO will also impact on the image quality, but it should be OK
1. Forget about panning, just set a wider angle on the lens so that you can be (almost) sure of getting the subject in the shot, then crop the image to get rid of the bits you don't want. This will affect image quality, but the results should still be acceptable
2. Set a fairly small aperture (say f/11) to ensure adequate depth of field
3. Turn the flash power down, this will make the flash duration shorter, so that it can freeze movement better (although this isn't actually the problem in your sample photo)
4. Take a test shot. If it is too dark, increase the CAMERA ISO setting, until you're happy with the result. Increasing the ISO will also impact on the image quality, but it should be OK
ha ha, Garry, it is impossible to forget about panning as It takes a while to get the subject centred. I don't think that could happen without panning. The subject is often hurtling from l-r and you cannot 'guess' as to its path. It's not a car driving down a road, its a bouncing, weaving subject that is very very quick indeed. You don't get 5 seconds to 'compose', the only way is to pan really IMO......But i have taken alot of advice on board and will try a few different things. But i do welcome any further realistic advice.
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As you wish, but I do know how rats move, I've shot enough, although not with a Canon
In my view they are predictable enough to be able to get a wide shot, most of the time, without panning.
In my view they are predictable enough to be able to get a wide shot, most of the time, without panning.
As you wish, but I do know how rats move, I've shot enough, although not with a Canon
In my view they are predictable enough to be able to get a wide shot, most of the time, without panning.
maybe not when a jack russell is chasing them.....
Hi,
Thought I'd share some of my thoughts on this... Yes the image looks blurred, many posts have advised on what settings to configure on your Flash unit.... It seems to me that even at the longer high powered flash duration how would this explain why the grass is blurred. I have frozen grass movement at 1/60 easily.
Just feel maybe something else maybe at play here.... Btw im no pro so these comments maybe due to lack of knowledge..
Thought I'd share some of my thoughts on this... Yes the image looks blurred, many posts have advised on what settings to configure on your Flash unit.... It seems to me that even at the longer high powered flash duration how would this explain why the grass is blurred. I have frozen grass movement at 1/60 easily.
Just feel maybe something else maybe at play here.... Btw im no pro so these comments maybe due to lack of knowledge..
