Help with problematic Bronica film insert

[skysh4rk]

Hi all,

An insert for one of my Bronica SQ-A film backs has been acting up recently and I'm wondering if there's anything that I can do to fix it.

Basically, it's very difficult to wind the film when I use this particular insert with a significant amount of effort required to get it moving.

I know that it's the insert itself, because everything works fine when I put my other insert into this back.

When there isn't any film in the insert, I can still feel a little more resistance and it doesn't wind as smoothly as the fully working one when I turn the little cranks.

When I use this one insert, however, it still does wind on to the proper place for the first frame, stop where it should for each frame thereafter, and the spacing is usually fine (save for one time), it just is ridiculously difficult to wind .

I had considered opening up the insert myself and taking a look to see if I could figure out the problem myself, but a quick google revealed a far more complex mechanism in the insert than I'd anticipated, so I'm a bit apprehensive of doing this unless I actually knew specifically what I was looking for.

Anyone ever experienced anything like this with an SQ back or something similar?

Thanks in advance!

 

[joxby]

Are we talking about the dark slide or the back itself, I'm kinda confused as to what complexed mechanism is in an "insert".
My EC dark slide is just a metal blade that when removed from the mounted back releases various interlocks/wotnot so a frame can be shot.
The SQ, I thought the dark slide was maybe plastic and a bit thicker, but does the same thing, can't imagine it contains moving parts, but I dunno..


read it through again and I thing you might be talking about the film carrier/insert


Off the top of my head, is the carrier correct, I don't think you can use a 220 carrier with 120 film even though they look the same.

 

[skysh4rk]

Are we talking about the dark slide or the back itself, I'm kinda confused as to what complexed mechanism is in an "insert".
My EC dark slide is just a metal blade that when removed from the mounted back releases various interlocks/wotnot so a frame can be shot.
The SQ, I thought the dark slide was maybe plastic and a bit thicker, but does the same thing, can't imagine it contains moving parts, but I dunno..

read it through again and I thing you might be talking about the film carrier/insert

Off the top of my head, is the carrier correct, I don't think you can use a 220 carrier with 120 film even though they look the same.

By insert, I mean the bit you put the film spool in with the pressure plate. At the top it has the shot counter and on the side is the little crank.


Bronica insert by sk8nsax, on Flickr

It definitely is the right insert for the back, as I've already used it plenty of times (I think 120 and 220 inserts are interchangeable in SQ backs though). It just doesn't want to wind without lots of force.

 

[joxby]

Is it the right insert for the film...

Just bottom that to be certain, can you put 120 film in a 220 insert, because the insert you picture clearly says 220, now unless it says 120 on the other side why would they need to label it at all if all carriers are universal..


220 does not have the paper backing that 120 has. 220 only has a paper leader and a paper tail. The pressure plate in a 220 back leaves a narrower gap for the film, compared to a 120 back where the gap is sized for the film plus paper thickness. When 120 is run through a 220 back, this can lead to additional resistance during winding.

 

[skysh4rk]

Yeah, it's the right insert for 120. I just quickly googled a pic on my iPhone to show what I meant by insert, but the one in the photo is not the one I have.

I've used the insert for many rolls already, so I don't think it's a problem of compatibility with the back, the film, or the camera.

 

[StephenM]

I don't know Bronica equipment, but Mamiya have recommended service intervals (in terms of exposures or films) for the various parts of their cameras. Possibly the insert now needs a service - though whether that's a simple Do It Yourself job I don't know.

 

[freecom2]

It probably just needs lubrication, or there's some debris caught in the winding mechanism.

Normally I'd recommend the service route, but SQ backs are so cheap I wouldn't bother.

 

[skysh4rk]

I don't know Bronica equipment, but Mamiya have recommended service intervals (in terms of exposures or films) for the various parts of their cameras. Possibly the insert now needs a service - though whether that's a simple Do It Yourself job I don't know.

Yeah, you're probably right that it would ideally be serviced every so often.

Having seen some photos of the mechanism that's in the insert, I know that I wouldn't personally know what to do with it unless the problem were quite obvious:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzpza/5945609165/

It probably just needs lubrication, or there's some debris caught in the winding mechanism.

Normally I'd recommend the service route, but SQ backs are so cheap I wouldn't bother.

Yeah, I get the feeling that the problem is relatively minor, so it could be as simple as lubrication or clearing some foreign debris from the mechanism.

I had started looking at picking up another back, but the prices seem to have gone up a bit in the past few months.

Just a couple of months ago I saw some backs at Ffordes and LCE for between £20-£40, but everything now seems to be £65 and up for a 120 back.

I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled and see if one pops up somewhere at a more agreeable price.

 

[StephenM]

I've just taken a look at the manual for the SQ-A and couldn't find a reference to servicing. For what it's worth, the manual for my RZ67 recommends servicing the body after about 50,000 exposures; the film holders after about 20,000 exposures and the leaf shutter lenses after about 10,000 exposures.

 

[skysh4rk]

I've just taken a look at the manual for the SQ-A and couldn't find a reference to servicing. For what it's worth, the manula for my RZ67 recommends servicing the body after about 50,000 exposures; the film holders after about 20,000 exposures and the leaf shutter lenses after about 10,000 exposures.

Yeah, I think the back does need to be serviced, the question is whether such servicing is available and cost effective, given that the backs aren't particularly expensive.

I've had a look around an archive of the old Tamron/Bronica website, but that didn't turn up much additional information either, unfortunately:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051226051357/http://www.tamron.com/bronica/prod/sq.asp