Help getting razor sharp photos (gig photography)

Mintyhit

Mintyhit

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James
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Hi guys, I have been photographing gigs and writing reviews for a music website for about 6 months now and I am really starting to get into it. I think I am getting my exposure\white balance correct but I am sometimes a bit disappointed with the softness of my focus in the majority of my photos and I would say that only 1 in 50 or so of my pictures come out as sharp as I am aiming for.

I am using a 5D MKII with either a 50mm 1.4 or a 70-200 2.8 IS. I always shoot flash-less with the A/F on (I am not quite sure my eyesight in dark venues is up to manually focusing) and generally use the single shot mode. I actively use focus points and try to get to lock focus on the face to failing that a light part of clothing. I also try and reacquire focus if the artist moves.

I nearly always shoot on a high ISO 3200 – 6400 and generally vary my aperture between wide open and about F4 depending on the available light and the shutter speed I need.

Here is an example of a one of mine that I think is ok:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/4152937198_fdd4af74d7_b.jpg

And another that I think came out too soft:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4191749161_b8e0b684bd_b.jpg

I am wondering if my problem might be using the extreme focus points as I read something about different lenses being sharper or softer depending on the points used. Can anyone explain this to me?

I am still a beginner doing this so any tips on getting my focus right would be excellent. I know I am being really critical of my work as I really want to achieve some world class shots if I can so any help from the experts would be superb!

Here are a few more examples of my shots:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mintyhit/sets/72157623017717492/

I will also post a few more of my fails for judgement and advice when I get home.

Thanks guys.
James
 
Thats the problem of shooting at F4 or less you have to get the focus spot on as the DOF is shallow.

Not tried this but looks cool.

What about changing the focus mode, cant remember what its called but switches between one shot and servo.

Also need to keep an eye on shutter speed, if you are using 200mm needs to be at least 1/250...

:thumbs:
 
I tend to use continuous focus mode (AF-C) and turn shutter button af activation off, so you have to squeeze af-on button to focus. Makes focussing and recomposing way easier, just unsqueeze. I'd also reccomend not shooting in single shot mode, but pumelling the shutter a bit, what with the moving and changing lights at gigs etc a single second burst can give both very nice and very awful shots depending on what part of the second the shutter fires.
 
To be quite honest the shots look good, especially considering the fact that the subjects would have been moving a lot.

I get exactly the same problem when photographing children using available light.

My answer is simple - I take loads of shots and throw away the bad ones.

But in this case I think even the soft ones look good due to the nature of the shots themselves - if you look in virtually any music mags etc with pics taken at live events you will find that plenty of shots are just as soft as yours but the editor considered the subject more important than a pin sharp print.
 
At those ISO and f/stop settings, 'soft' is a fact of life...also house lights especially red ones, tend to make everything look softer anyway...
A few people here specialise in Gig Photography and I'll bow to their experience and let them give you specific advice for the venues you're shooting in, but yeah - careful focussing is the way to get it done...
 
itsdavedotnet said:
I tend to use continuous focus mode (AF-C) and turn shutter button af activation off, so you have to squeeze af-on button to focus.
Click to expand...

Ah, excellent... I will be sure to try this at the next gig! I never use the af-on button.
 
You've got the right gear, that's for sure. I would whack the ISO up as far as you need to guarantee shake-free images, which should also go a long way to reducing the amount of subject blur. Sometimes a little subject blur looks good.

Then to make sure you nail the focus absolutely, I would use the more sensitive centre-point only and if this compromises the composition a bit, then crop in post processing. A 5DII has got plenty of scope for a bit of cropping.
 
In my fairly limited experience in gig photography I have found that bright lights are the main cause of auto focus problems (as in your second shot). Added with smoke and light coming at the lens from all angles it really can struggle to work out what the hell is going on at times....what sort of shutter speeds are you getting with those settings. I try and not go over 1000iso but do shoot wide open on my 70-200 F4 IS, it is a bit touch and go to avoid motion blur with the subject but I find it gives me much sharper results that upping the ISO (plus on the 40D anything over 1000 is pretty useless noise wise).
 
I shoot gigs, also with a 40D and have shot 1600 several times and 3200 if needed. I tend to use the central focus point, then quickly recompose and shoot the shot. Just the method that works for me. I usually shoot over 150 shots per gig, and sometimes you get soft, but there is always a sharp shot as well. No need to worry that every shot isn't sharp, at the f stop you shoot at no one ever manages it. Some good work though
 
I agree with most of what has been said already.

Its a fact of life that due to wide apertures/low light/high ISO's etc soft subjects are inevitable.

I shoot on continius to - hopefully catch a good pose/exposure and hopefully a sharp shot.

I find I try and start with a low an ISO as possible around a 1000 - but it inevitably creeps up to 1600 and if some gothic band - 3200. - but expect noise at this level.

I tend to use a/f - because I wear glasses and my eyesight just isnt up to it I dont use manual focus at gigs becuase I find I miss shots while trying to get that focus spot on - and in the dark its not that easy.

If I get 4/5 great shots out of about 300 then I am happy.

For some reason - I find the more gigs I shoot - the less satisfied I am!!!

But I do love the adrenaline of shooting live music whether in bars or the rare ocassion I get into a "proper" venue front of house!!
 
Thanks for the tips and the comments on my work. I will have to try and keep a closer eye on my shutter speeds and see if I can shoot on a higher f stop to get the detail I am after.

I guess I will just have to accept softness wide open and shoot more to compensate.

I will also try and use the centre focus point more if it’s more sensitive.

Thanks again everyone!
James
 
The 5d is a bit naff in low light, I've had the mk1 and use the mk2.

Without a focus assist light it fails miserably to get an accurate focus under red and blue lighting. That coupled to the wide f and the high ISO you're doomed to a lifetime of softish shots. Using a speedlite helps as it has focus assist, but unless you really wind the power down or mess about with the shutter speed you lose all that lovely feel of a live event.
 
photos won't be razor sharp at those ISO's even if your focus is totally nailed


Mintyhit said:
I nearly always shoot on a high ISO 3200 – 6400 and generally vary my aperture between wide open and about F4 depending on the available light and the shutter speed I need.
Thanks guys.
James
Click to expand...
 
A pro friend of mine shoots gigs as his first love and he always says he has to shoot in bursts and anticipate where the subject is going ot be. You're never going to have a great success rate at this kind of thing though.
 
Mintyhit said:
And another that I think came out too soft:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4191749161_b8e0b684bd_b.jpg
Click to expand...

You have a very bright light source shining into the frame which will throw most autofocus systems off.

Try focusing using the middle focus point on your subject but without including the light source in the frame (if possible!). Once focus has locked, keep the shutter button half-pressed and recompose the frame to include the light source.

Or use manual focus.
 
Hi Guys,

Just thought I would post back to say thanks for all the advice. I shot another gig last night and this thread proved absolutely invaluable.

I see why using the centre cross type focus point is a must and why most of my shots came out soft using the outer points as I often lost focus on headstocks and mic stands.

As suggested locking the focus with the centre point with the shutter button half-pressed and recomposing works wonders.

Here are a few from last night, all shot at ISO 6400:

4207946423_75cafa3185.jpg


4207946471_752f536395.jpg


4207884515_8f5db42cee.jpg


It was a metal punk\metal band called Antiproduct.

The entire set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mintyhit/sets/72157623056093518/

Cheers
James
 
^^^ Sorted :thumbs:
 
I agree ^^^
The new ones look ever so sharp and the colours are so vibrant:thumbs:
 
Thanks a million guys, glad you like em.

All taken with my 50mm 1.4 incidentally, a bloody fantastic lens it has to be said!
 
Some nice shots there, especially the first two you've posted of Antiproduct.

I am relatively new to gig photography also, started about 6 months ago and done 6 gigs so far, and agree that it is very challenging. When I did my first gig, about 50 out of the 500+ photos I took were actually any good, and now I'm getting a much better rate of keepers due to refining technique.

I use a 40D with 18-50mm f2.8 lens most of the time, usually on full manual mode and selecting AF points manually. I try to keep shutter speed at least 1/100 sec and usually shoot at f2.8, unless I get a good enough shutter speed to stop down a bit to 5.6 or so. ISO wise, I prefer to use 800-1600, but do find myself going to 3200 in some situations, but I feel they are still usable after processing (I always shoot gigs in RAW).

I have a selection of my gig photography on my Flickr (see link in my sig,) and Exif info should be all there. Obviously they are downscaled (I have a free Flickr account) but if you want any full sized pics to see, let me know.
 
Hi
Second set are really good. I use the camera in portrait ie up and down with the uppermost AF point on. I find I can then use this af point for the face without recomposing. I find that with the shallow depth of field with a 1.4 you can easily lose the focus by moving the camera to recompose.
As others have said the throwout rate is high, so take plenty and don't worry!!

Dunc
 
Well done on getting your images sorted out - great to see youasking for advice and then applying it so well. :thumbs:

Just one thing - did you change your focus mode to AF-C mode or did you stay with single shot? My advice would have been to go AF-C but whatever works for you is best :)
 
ryanyboy said:
Well done on getting your images sorted out - great to see youasking for advice and then applying it so well. :thumbs:

Just one thing - did you change your focus mode to AF-C mode or did you stay with single shot? My advice would have been to go AF-C but whatever works for you is best :)
Click to expand...

Close up with my 50mm I found myself sticking to single shot as I found I started to miss shots waiting for focus to lock with AI or Servo.

It is frustrating sometimes waiting for the focus to lock when your subject is doing something really interesting but I guess there is only so fast the AF system camera can go.

Wicker Man: Some great shots on your FlickR. I have added you as a contact as it would be good to keep an eye on someone else getting into gig photography. Are you photographing for a publication of any sort?

James
 
Mintyhit said:
Wicker Man: Some great shots on your FlickR. I have added you as a contact as it would be good to keep an eye on someone else getting into gig photography. Are you photographing for a publication of any sort?

James
Click to expand...

Thanks! My first gig (Blaze Bayley) was just for myself to try out gig photography (I emailed the PR company), but at the gig I met the owner of a gig reviews website (Midlands Rocks) who was looking for photographers, so I joined the team and have shot a coule of gigs for them. At uni, I signed up to the university magazine team as a photographer and have got some photo passes through there for bands I like who were playing in the area and reviews were featuring in the magazine.
 
digitalfailure said:
The 5d is a bit naff in low light, I've had the mk1 and use the mk2.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna disagree here on of best mates shoots with a 5d and while he moans about some of the feature. He takes some stunning pictures at gig on a regular occurance.

It's all down to the person and the camera helps a little.
 
personaly i like a lot of grain in gig shots.
and if your shooting in the dark holes i do.
3200 on a regular basis, wide open at 2.8.
struggling to keep above 100th.
i used the 50mm previously , but have found my sigma 18-50 2.8 way quicker to focus.
loads of my stuff is on my myspace page.
getting better all the time.
hopefully.
the bands like em anyway.
saving for the 24-70L.
oh , i use a 30D.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e39/redstripe101/Rockit092025copy.jpg

Staff Edit : Images changed to clickable links. Pictures must not exceed current forum limits as per the rules.
Please feel free to replace this with a fresh/resized image and remove this text :)
 
konastab01 said:
I'm gonna disagree here on of best mates shoots with a 5d and while he moans about some of the feature. He takes some stunning pictures at gig on a regular occurance.

It's all down to the person and the camera helps a little.
Click to expand...

You are free to disagree as much as you like :)

I used the 5d 1 and now the 5d 2 month in month out in some very very dimmly and awkwardly lit clubs (levels are well below that of a full on music gig), while I do get some images that I too would consider stunning :D I get my fair share of binners too.

The performances I shoot do not give you time to recompose a shot let alone focus manually so I have to rely on the AF. and with that in mind I can state with my hand on heart its a bit naff on the 5d.
 
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