Harrison Cameras - Was I expecting too much? (updated)

[Crotal Bell]

This post is not a criticism of Harrison camera's, I am very new to using proper equipment, so merely asking what I should expect in regards advice when I contact stores?

Recently I bought a Panasonic micro 4 thirds camera, and saw a lens for sale at Harrison cameras, used. 100-300 Panasonic Mega OIS.
I called and asked a lady if this worked in conjunction with the inbuilt image stabilisation, she assured me that it did. I have since been advised by people on here that mega OIS does not work with the in built stabilization, only the lens OIS works in the "Mega OIS" lenses. Perhaps the lady misunderstood me.

Today I saw a good priced 12 - 60 Panasonic "Power OIS" lens at Harrisons. I called and explained what happened with the previous lens, a younger lady said "do you want to send it back?" I said "No I'm not unhappy but I want to get it right with this lens, so can you confirm that this lens with "Power OIS" will work alongside the in-built OIS to give the maximum stabilisation from both parts?"

The lady put me on hold and came back - "I've spoken to a colleague who has many years experience, he said it's best to check with Panasonic"

I would have thought the shop could answer this question, of course there are so many cameras and lenses in photography, maybe they can't know them all.

So am I expecting too much from a store with this kind of question?

 

[f/1.2]

This post is not a criticism of Harrison camera's, I am very new to using proper equipment, so merely asking what I should expect in regards advice when I contact stores?

Recently I bought a Panasonic micro 4 thirds camera, and saw a lens for sale at Harrison cameras, used. 100-300 Panasonic Mega OIS.
I called and asked a lady if this worked in conjunction with the inbuilt image stabilisation, she assured me that it did. I have since been advised by people on here that mega OIS does not work with the in built stabilization, only the lens OIS works in the "Mega OIS" lenses. Perhaps the lady misunderstood me.

Today I saw a good priced 12 - 60 Panasonic "Power OIS" lens at Harrisons. I called and explained what happened with the previous lens, a younger lady said "do you want to send it back?" I said "No I'm not unhappy but I want to get it right with this lens, so can you confirm that this lens with "Power OIS" will work alongside the in-built OIS to give the maximum stabilisation from both parts?"

The lady put me on hold and came back - "I've spoken to a colleague who has many years experience, he said it's best to check with Panasonic"

I would have thought the shop could answer this question, of course there are so many cameras and lenses in photography, maybe they can't know them all.

So am I expecting too much from a store with this kind of question?

Your probably are expecting a bit much to be honest.

This is only my experience but in most retail shops staff will have limited knowledge, usually they will know a lot about a specific manufacturers gear because they use it themselves.

A lot of good staff in retail camera shops were lost over the pandemic as many were let go and then when the shops re-opened they weren't able to get those experienced staff back again.

It is probably best to confirm with the manufacturer, a quick phone call should do the trick. Great customers services from them would have been them offering to do that for you, but like most retail places these days they are probably getting by on the least amount of staff possible and don't have the time.

There is the odd exception of course my local W.E.X staff for example are exceptionally knowledgeable and if there is info needed to be found out they always seem happy to go away and find out on customers behalf.

On the flipside of the coin though I was in another W.E.X branch a few months ago and the staff didn't have much knowledge at all and I overheard them giving a customer completely the wrong information.

All a bit pot luck.

 

[john.margetts]

My Olympus Pen camera instructions were clear that you should either use the IBIS (camera) stabilisation or the lens stabilisation but never the two together.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

My Olympus Pen camera instructions were clear that you should either use the IBIS (camera) stabilisation or the lens stabilisation but never the two together.

Indeed.

So far as I'm aware only a limited number of Panasonic cameras can integrate lens and body vibration control. I would expect that a larger number of Olympus cameras can pull that trick, because they have specialised in body anti-shake systems.

However, checking with the manual is always a good idea and many such manuals can be found on-line these days.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Your probably are expecting a bit much to be honest.

This is only my experience but in most retail shops staff will have limited knowledge, usually they will know a lot about a specific manufacturers gear because they use it themselves.

A lot of good staff in retail camera shops were lost over the pandemic as many were let go and then when the shops re-opened they weren't able to get those experienced staff back again.

It is probably best to confirm with the manufacturer, a quick phone call should do the trick. Great customers services from them would have been them offering to do that for you, but like most retail places these days they are probably getting by on the least amount of staff possible and don't have the time.

There is the odd exception of course my local W.E.X staff for example are exceptionally knowledgeable and if there is info needed to be found out they always seem happy to go away and find out on customers behalf.

On the flipside of the coin though I was in another W.E.X branch a few months ago and the staff didn't have much knowledge at all and I overheard them giving a customer completely the wrong information.

All a bit pot luck.

Thanks Tommy, I appreciate the advice and will certainly take it on board.

 

[sphexx]

I would think you need to get the exact model number and check on Panasonic’s website.

 

[Sangoma]

Power OIS works with the inbody stabilisation, Mega OIS does not.

Nothing complicated, straight forward, quite sad for a retailer to say contact the manufacturer, obviously not a Panasonic appointed retailer
I would also have thought the shop could answer the question, one to avoid I think.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

This post is not a criticism of Harrison camera's, I am very new to using proper equipment, so merely asking what I should expect in regards advice when I contact stores?

Recently I bought a Panasonic micro 4 thirds camera, and saw a lens for sale at Harrison cameras, used. 100-300 Panasonic Mega OIS.
I called and asked a lady if this worked in conjunction with the inbuilt image stabilisation, she assured me that it did. I have since been advised by people on here that mega OIS does not work with the in built stabilization, only the lens OIS works in the "Mega OIS" lenses. Perhaps the lady misunderstood me.

Today I saw a good priced 12 - 60 Panasonic "Power OIS" lens at Harrisons. I called and explained what happened with the previous lens, a younger lady said "do you want to send it back?" I said "No I'm not unhappy but I want to get it right with this lens, so can you confirm that this lens with "Power OIS" will work alongside the in-built OIS to give the maximum stabilisation from both parts?"

The lady put me on hold and came back - "I've spoken to a colleague who has many years experience, he said it's best to check with Panasonic"

I would have thought the shop could answer this question, of course there are so many cameras and lenses in photography, maybe they can't know them all.

So am I expecting too much from a store with this kind of question?

Yes you are. I would not expect many sales people to be able to give a definitive answer.

 

[rob-nikon]

Power OIS works with the inbody stabilisation, Mega OIS does not.

Nothing complicated, straight forward, quite sad for a retailer to say contact the manufacturer, obviously not a Panasonic appointed retailer
I would also have thought the shop could answer the question, one to avoid I think.

Most camera shop staff won’t be experts in every camera system so it’s not unusual. It’s quite likely the camera store cant afford to pay for experts as sales assistants for any camera manufacturer let alone one that’s not the very top brand.

On the other side of the coin uk camera stores are working on very tight margins. What would stop anyone getting the expert advice for free and buying it cheaper elsewhere. Many people nowadays don’t want to pay for the expert advice but expect it for free instead.

 

[bish789]

Photographic shops are no different to others. There are some shops with astounding knowledge of the products they sell, and others that haven't a clue.
I bought a vehicle (2nd one of the same variety) and when they were doing the 'handover', I taught the staff some things they should have known but didn't.
Pot luck I'm afraid

 

[Sangoma]

Then what is the point supporting a dedicated store?

Better off to take advantage of lower online prices, no matter who the seller, with ebay you have excellent protection.


The few "camera shops" I have dealt with have always been very knowledgeable and helpful.

I'm totally astounded that that kind of response should be considered acceptable from a business selling photographic equipment, they are offering no benefit than dealing with Joe Bloggs on ebay

 

[sphexx]

Then what is the point supporting a dedicated store?

Better off to take advantage of lower online prices, no matter who the seller, with ebay you have excellent protection.


The few "camera shops" I have dealt with have always been very knowledgeable and helpful.

I'm totally astounded that that kind of response should be considered acceptable from a business selling photographic equipment, they are offering no benefit than dealing with Joe Bloggs on ebay

Given it’s a used lens it entirely possible they don’t stock Panasonics so would be unlikely to know much about them.

I think it would be asking a lot to expect anyone to know all finer details of all the variety of cameras and lenses available today.

 

[Sangoma]

Given it’s a used lens it entirely possible they don’t stock Panasonics so would be unlikely to know much about them.

I think it would be asking a lot to expect anyone to know all finer details of all the variety of cameras and lenses available today.

I wouldn't consider that exactly a finer detail, but even so, if they want to stay in business, I would have though a better response would have been "I'll check than for you" rather than "contact the manufacturer"

Of course if they don't care, that their response is fine.

It is quite common these days that retailers think it is cheaper to lose customers with poor service, just issuing refunds to "rectify" their service, rather than to build a good reputation and loyal customer base, it may well be cheaper, but I would rather deal with some one who cares and has the desire to learn and give good service.

There are plenty of retailers who obviously agree with me, we really don't need the others.

 

[sphexx]

I wouldn't consider that exactly a finer detail, but even so, if they want to stay in business, I would have though a better response would have been "I'll check than for you" rather than "contact the manufacturer"

Of course if they don't care, that their response is fine.

It is quite common these days that retailers think it is cheaper to lose customers with poor service, just issuing refunds to "rectify" their service, rather than to build a good reputation and loyal customer base, it may well be cheaper, but I would rather deal with some one who cares and has the desire to learn and give good service.

There are plenty of retailers who obviously agree with me, we really don't need the others.

I guess we’ll have to agree to differ then .

Going back to the OP, he reports that he said he asked if "Power OIS" will work alongside the in-built OIS to give the maximum stabilisation from both parts?" which is a pretty good description of what he wanted to know — though I think still open to some misinterpretation* -- but employing the “send three and fourpence we are going to a dance” rule I reckon it could have been transmogrified between going out and coming back. Personally, I would have researched it on Panasonic’s website.

*I will detail this if anyone wishes

 

[rob-nikon]

I wouldn't consider that exactly a finer detail, but even so, if they want to stay in business, I would have though a better response would have been "I'll check than for you" rather than "contact the manufacturer"

Of course if they don't care, that their response is fine.

It is quite common these days that retailers think it is cheaper to lose customers with poor service, just issuing refunds to "rectify" their service, rather than to build a good reputation and loyal customer base, it may well be cheaper, but I would rather deal with some one who cares and has the desire to learn and give good service.

There are plenty of retailers who obviously agree with me, we really don't need the others.

I can see your point but I guess our expectations of camera stores are quite different specially with a less well known brand. I wouldn’t expect every sales assistant in a camera shop which sells six different brands of mirrorless cameras alone (not including all the compacts, DSLRs and medium format) to know specific product details when its a £200 or £300 used lens. I’d expect more from a specialist camera store such as grays of Westminster who specialise in a single brand (Nikon) to known more or if it was a very high value item. personally I’d be happy to ask the manufacturer or do research myself online. Asking on here would have likely got an answer pretty fast

 

[Brentor]

I suggest you were expecting too much. The first lady should have been more honest if she didn’t know.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I suggest you were expecting too much. The first lady should have been more honest if she didn’t know.

Judging by her tone I think the first lady thought she did know, just didn't understand Mega OIS vs Power OIS, and at the time neither did I.
It wasn't worth sending it back though, I couldn't afford a higher spec 100-300 on my budget.

 

[sphexx]

Judging by her tone I think the first lady thought she did know, just didn't understand Mega OIS vs Power OIS, and at the time neither did I.
It wasn't worth sending it back though, I couldn't afford a higher spec 100-300 on my budget.

Apart from any ignorance, which may exist, I think there could be an element of confusion in that a) the camera and lens are compatible, and b) both the stabilisations will work when the lens is on the camera but c) just not in an ‘additive‘ or ‘complementary’ way. The first two parts of the question are those that will be more commonly asked about cameras in general.

 

[realspeed]

the only way i can think of with getting another image stablisation if a camera or lens already has it built in is by using a gimbal. I have seen videos of both in use and was quite impressed but this was with a video camcorder and the person walking along. Else just use a tripod or monopod

 

[Crotal Bell]

Apart from any ignorance, which may exist, I think there could be an element of confusion in that a) the camera and lens are compatible, and b) both the stabilisations will work when the lens is on the camera but c) just not in an ‘additive‘ or ‘complementary’ way. The first two parts of the question are those that will be more commonly asked about cameras in general.

A little from Column A and a little from column B I think.
I guess some camera people would instantly advise on how Mega OIS works, maybe asked what camera I had etc. It's clear from the feedback I expected too much and should research equipment myself in future. Lesson learnt.

 

[the black fox]

its a hard one to give a absolute yes or no on as like olympus panasonic have there own terminology for there functions and people often read something online and take it as the bible when its totally wrong i.e
olympus states that when using long lenses such as the 100-300 or 100-400 you should use the lens i.s but I still see online comments from users quoting that they get better results using the i.b.is which is designed for short focal lengths ..I would also recommend ignoring any posts that come from American sites that are often long winded explanations and totally misleading .

 

[Dryce]

A little from Column A and a little from column B I think.
I guess some camera people would instantly advise on how Mega OIS works, maybe asked what camera I had etc. It's clear from the feedback I expected too much and should research equipment myself in future. Lesson learnt.

This is a general rule I think.

So as an example if buying a car dealers don't really know much about the detail of some of the transmissions and four wheel drive options. It's not helped by manufacturers putting branding on these systems that sound similar or are applied differently across different products.

 

[Crotal Bell]

A while back I bought a lens from Harrison Cameras. Being new to photography, I asked the lady on the phone if the lens worked with the in-built stabilisation in the camera. the lady said that it did, but it doesn't. Afterwards I learned about Mega OIS and Power OIS, but at the time I was relying on the advice of the store.

I left a review, giving 4/5 and mentioned in the review that I don't think the lady understood what I was asking. All the same I stated that I was happy enough with the lens and I would shop there again, so I was not impolite or negative towards Harrison cameras. This is the reply to my feedback.

"advice is free in the store, our telephone handlers are not photographers (right people right places)"

I'm not impressed with that at all. If the lady on the phone doesn't know photography then she should have explained that she could not answer my question, not give me the wrong answer !!

We can't all travel across country to different shops, and we all often buy online. I don't expect every person on the phone to have the answers, but if they give you an answer, then you assume they now what they are talking about and the answer is right. It's a bit of a joke to blame me for asking the wrong person !!

I won't be going there again after all.

 

[gramps]

If the lady on the phone doesn't know photography then she should have explained that she could not answer my question, not give me the wrong answer !!

Have to agree ... sufficient to return the lens if it is 'not as described'.

 

[Deleted member 95743]

Have to agree ... sufficient to return the lens if it is 'not as described'.

Don't be ridiculous. The lens has to meet with the description on Harrisons website. You cannot prove what was said in phone call by either party.

 

[TGphoto]

A while back I bought a lens from Harrison Cameras. Being new to photography, I asked the lady on the phone if the lens worked with the in-built stabilisation in the camera. the lady said that it did, but it doesn't. Afterwards I learned about Mega OIS and Power OIS, but at the time I was relying on the advice of the store.

I left a review, giving 4/5 and mentioned in the review that I don't think the lady understood what I was asking. All the same I stated that I was happy enough with the lens and I would shop there again, so I was not impolite or negative towards Harrison cameras. This is the reply to my feedback.

"advice is free in the store, our telephone handlers are not photographers (right people right places)"

I'm not impressed with that at all. If the lady on the phone doesn't know photography then she should have explained that she could not answer my question, not give me the wrong answer !!

We can't all travel across country to different shops, and we all often buy online. I don't expect every person on the phone to have the answers, but if they give you an answer, then you assume they now what they are talking about and the answer is right. It's a bit of a joke to blame me for asking the wrong person !!

I won't be going there again after all.

That is a terrible response from them. Awful customer service.

You would expect speaking to someone representing a camera sales business that they had a basic level of understanding about the products being sold.

 

[gramps]

Don't be ridiculous. The lens has to meet with the description on Harrisons website. You cannot prove what was said in phone call by either party.

How do you know that it cannot be proved ... how ridiculous.

 

[Box Brownie]

If the telephone handlers are not there to advise that is not a problem if they can do what is required and be categoric in stating they don't know an answer to what is a technical question. The reply/response from the company does them IMO no favours and smacks of issues is training at all levels.

I was in B2B sales between 1980 and 2016.....and one thing I learned at the start was there is no shame in admitting you don't know the answer..,.....but will find out and get back to the client with answer. Or in the case the above, transfer the call to someone who knows!

 

[Justin Smith]

I left a review, giving 4/5 and mentioned in the review that I don't think the lady understood what I was asking. All the same I stated that I was happy enough with the lens and I would shop there again, so I was not impolite or negative towards Harrison cameras. This is the reply to my feedback.

"advice is free in the store, our telephone handlers are not photographers (right people right places)"

That is rather an arrogant response. I have just checked their actual reply and there really isn't an exclamation mark after it (e.g. "right people right places !") which would at least have implied a level of humour. Shocking.

I have to say I have fallen out a bit with Harrisons :

1 - As I mentioned on my thread about non crop picture printing they have just put up their prices per print (for 100+ ) from 10p each to 25p each. That's an increase of 150%.

2 - Trying to get hold of them on the phone is a very frustrating experience indeed. Typical of the modern trend to worse customer service they instead try to direct you towards a webchat which is what I had to use in the end, and it took 10 minutes whereas a phone call would have taken about 1 or 2.....

 

[Justin Smith]

If the telephone handlers are not there to advise that is not a problem if they can do what is required and be categoric in stating they don't know an answer to what is a technical question. The reply/response from the company does them IMO no favours and smacks of issues is training at all levels.

I was in B2B sales between 1980 and 2016.....and one thing I learned at the start was there is no shame in admitting you don't know the answer..,.....but will find out and get back to the client with answer. Or in the case the above, transfer the call to someone who knows!

If there is one thing I have learnt when giving advice, and practice in my business, never say anything for certain anyway, not unless you are 100% sure your advice is correct.

 

[KIPAX]

eerm ??

Harrison Cameras - Was I expecting too much? (updated)

This post is not a criticism of Harrison camera's, I am very new to using proper equipment, so merely asking what I should expect in regards advice when I contact stores? Recently I bought a Panasonic micro 4 thirds camera, and saw a lens for sale at Harrison cameras, used. 100-300 Panasonic...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

 

[Pound Coin]

Don't be ridiculous. The lens has to meet with the description on Harrisons website. You cannot prove what was said in phone call by either party.

Verbal stuff is still part of the contract and consumer law would cover this. IANAL.

 

[Crotal Bell]

eerm ??

Harrison Cameras - Was I expecting too much? (updated)

This post is not a criticism of Harrison camera's, I am very new to using proper equipment, so merely asking what I should expect in regards advice when I contact stores? Recently I bought a Panasonic micro 4 thirds camera, and saw a lens for sale at Harrison cameras, used. 100-300 Panasonic...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

This thread is focussed on the response to my feedback on a purchase, not whether I expected too much when on an occasion they couldn't answer a question.

 

[Cobra]

Let's keep it altogether, eh?

 

[the black fox]

The real trouble with this question lies with the differing terminology used by all the camera makers to describe similar functions . Then the shop staff have to try to explain that to a customer that has a minimum understanding of how a camera functions ,and then you have different compatibility of functions between the same makers bodies and lenses tbh it’s a total nightmare

 

[stumac]

Your not expecting too much at all . We pay over the odds in high street stores and expertise is what I like to think I'm paying extra for ..... and then everyone shouts support your local store!! At the very least they could have found out on your behalf and got back to you . This way they learn for next time and you get the info while feeling they put a little effort in to help out a paying customer .

 

[Crotal Bell]

The real trouble with this question lies with the differing terminology used by all the camera makers to describe similar functions . Then the shop staff have to try to explain that to a customer that has a minimum understanding of how a camera functions ,and then you have different compatibility of functions between the same makers bodies and lenses tbh it’s a total nightmare

Your right, the more I learn about cameras and lenses the more I realise this. On another occasion they did actually admit they couldn't answer a question, which is better than having the wrong information and then blaming me for asking the wrong person ??

 

[Mostly Vintage Cameras]

Let's be a little kind to camera shop staff. In the old days cameras did not have that many functions but today every camera has a dozen buttons and each button has a dozen functions. Just to know every possible combination of one cameras setting would be a test for Mr Memory. Then each manufacturer has a dozen cameras and there are, well ok, about five key manufacturers then you say it's used equipment. Now your local shop staff need to know every combination of every function of every camera from every brand since time began!
It's asking a lot.
If it's a big ticket item or the shop is especially quite maybe they could have contacted Panasonic for you but then you are just playing Chinese Whispers. They ask a question then tell you then you ask "does that mean..." then they ask Panasonic for you...
If they know the answer to the question you happen to ask, and they will for most questions in my experience, then that's great but if not, asking the manufacturer might just be the pragmatic solution.
Comparing your experience with many companies you telephone and the call got answered, that does not always happen. Not only that but you spoke with an actual person. They understood the issue you had with your 100-300mm and offered to take it back, you don't say how long you had it but seems like good service to me. They did not "fob you off" but tried to get the correct answer for you and when they could not they directed you to the right people to ask.
Is shop work well paid?

 

[Sangoma]

but tried to get the correct answer for you and when they could not they directed you to the right people to ask.

I thought the problem was that they did not do that, but gave an incorrect answer, if they had done that, there would have been no complaint

 

[Sky]

So am I expecting too much from a store with this kind of question?

In the past, people were paid by their seniority and knowledge. The more helpful they were to the customer and the more knowledgable (so as to encourage the customer to return), the more likely the sale and good customer satisfaction. If they did it right and pleased their employers, they occasionally received tips and in turn; pay rises according to that experience and success.

Nowadays, most shops employ brain-dead 'oiks' who have no clue about anything, probably can't spell their own name, are paid 'minimum wage' regardless, have no aspirations at all in life and care for nothing except pictures of their friends' meals that have been posted on Faceache.