Gosport hospital deaths!

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Box Brownie

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This sounds like a shamefully scandal.,........there are other examples of institutionally poor practices resulting in early deaths.

But what struck me about this case was the massive dosage of painkillers hastening the death(s). And that similarity was the Harold Shipman case, where in hindsight there were signs of his crimes missed and/or ignored. Granted he acted alone......... and Gosport sounds like one person setting the proscribing protocol with the many slavishly following it without question to the detriment of the patients :(

This is a can of worms and surely criminal charges will be coming!!!
 
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There were plenty that did try to raise concerns but were ignored, thats the culture of some nhs institutions and the fear culture suffered by would be whistleblowers. Its a lot less Harold Shipman overall and a lot more Stafford Scandal. I remember saying after the stafford thing there would be more, wish I was wrong. :(
 
Whatever happened to hippocratic oath? It is apparently not the thing for a while now in the medical profession here in UK. And that's bad news if you are sick, low net worth and headed to the hospital. Better eat well, exercise and stay healthy as best as you can.

Things are getting even more muddy as NHS is relying more and more on the AI https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38055509
It is 'easy' when 'tough' decisions are taken by the AI.

https://futurism.com/googles-ai-predict-when-patient-die/
"Hospitals could find new ways to prioritize patient care" - this is key. Somebody will get lowest priority and just receive painkillers.
 
Is this the unthinkable, that there is a possibility that certain persons are trying to introduce a form of euthanasia, because of the increasing numbers of elderly people in the UK?
 
I think there is a case for allowing doctors to over prescribe if a patient's terminally ill, however this would seem to be on another level and goes way beyond relieving suffering. I believe my mother in law had her end brought forward by not allowing her to have water during her final days but she was only ever going to last a few more days completely out of it on morphine. My brother received a big dose of morphine just prior to his death and again I think maybe this was deliberate.
In both cases I personally think it was acceptable, but I know not everyone would agree which is why we have checks in place, doesn't look like that happened in this case though and that can't be right.
 
andy700 said:
Is this the unthinkable, that there is a possibility that certain persons are trying to introduce a form of euthanasia, because of the increasing numbers of elderly people in the UK?
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A few years ago I would have agreed that hospitals seemed less keen to keep elderly patients alive and by that I mean anyone over about 65, these days I doubt it if the attention my 88 year old dad has received is anything to go by.
Hopefully this is an isolated case.
 
the facts will come out but I do think it is a fine line between letting someone go with dignity and killing them unlawfully.
my granddad had end stage cancer and was "helped" with additional morphine.
if someone is very old, terminally ill and has no more quality of life then I am ok with it.

we need a law change in this country to assist people in a dignified death.
 
andy700 said:
Is this the unthinkable, that there is a possibility that certain persons are trying to introduce a form of euthanasia, because of the increasing numbers of elderly people in the UK?
Click to expand...

It is not the unthinkable when it is already going full steam ahead in the Netherlands and Switzerland.

Let's take Netherlands case for example. If you are too expensive to the state.... well the state suggests that maybe you should do something about it. Watch:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_qhC7goYI

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09...nds-pushing-moral-duty-abort-syndrome-babies/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html

And then we come to this https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...-not-resuscitate-as-a-backdoor-to-euthanasia/

If you don't have a problem with this you should think again.


MatBin said:
I think there is a case for allowing doctors to over prescribe if a patient's terminally ill, however this would seem to be on another level and goes way beyond relieving suffering. I believe my mother in law had her end brought forward by not allowing her to have water during her final days but she was only ever going to last a few more days completely out of it on morphine. My brother received a big dose of morphine just prior to his death and again I think maybe this was deliberate.
In both cases I personally think it was acceptable, but I know not everyone would agree which is why we have checks in place, doesn't look like that happened in this case though and that can't be right.
Click to expand...

What you have described is a very mild form of euthanasia, just a matter of a few days of terminal patient's life - one which frees up a bed and saves some ££££. So the patient becomes just a number with a currency symbol. Extra painkillers at lethal dose doesn't sound terribly painful while still totally immoral, but witholding water is another level cruelty.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
It is not the unthinkable when it is already going full steam ahead in the Netherlands and Switzerland.

Let's take Netherlands case for example. If you are too expensive to the state.... well the state suggests that maybe you should do something about it. Watch:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_qhC7goYI

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09...nds-pushing-moral-duty-abort-syndrome-babies/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html

And then we come to this https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...-not-resuscitate-as-a-backdoor-to-euthanasia/

If you don't have a problem with this you should think again.




What you have described is a very mild form of euthanasia, just a matter of a few days of terminal patient's life - one which frees up a bed and saves some ££££. So the patient becomes just a number with a currency symbol. Extra painkillers at lethal dose doesn't sound terribly painful while still totally immoral, but witholding water is another level cruelty.
Click to expand...


That is chilling, really awful IMO.
 
Here's the full report:
https://www.gosportpanel.independent.gov.uk/panel-report/

Essentially, it wasn't just a rogue doctor killing for money, but an institutionalised problem.

Patients would go to the rehab ward for rehabilitation prior to discharge. A GP worked at the hospital some of the time, amongst other doctors. The patients might become a bit wobbly or poorly, and automatically end-of-life drugs were written up preemptively. The drugs were started by the nurses and administered in increasing doses until the patient died. A few nurses were concerned about this practice and either overridden by senior nurses or they were shut down by management. So the practice carried on with nurses giving often random doses of painkillers. The pharmacist whose job it was to check prescriptions and stocks of drugs didn't raise any concerns about the practice. There were sparse records about why palliative care drugs were started, or even just what was going on. Very little written by nurses either to justify things. Consultants in charge either never reviewed notes and charts, or didn't raise any concerns. When investigations took place, a box of complaints mysteriously disappeared. Three police investigations couldn't prove anything. GMC investigations didn't reveal anything.

Basically, if you were admitted to this ward, you would die within days.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
It is not the unthinkable when it is already going full steam ahead in the Netherlands and Switzerland.

Let's take Netherlands case for example. If you are too expensive to the state.... well the state suggests that maybe you should do something about it. Watch:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_qhC7goYI

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09...nds-pushing-moral-duty-abort-syndrome-babies/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html

And then we come to this https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...-not-resuscitate-as-a-backdoor-to-euthanasia/

If you don't have a problem with this you should think again.




What you have described is a very mild form of euthanasia, just a matter of a few days of terminal patient's life - one which frees up a bed and saves some ££££. So the patient becomes just a number with a currency symbol. Extra painkillers at lethal dose doesn't sound terribly painful while still totally immoral, but witholding water is another level cruelty.
Click to expand...
The argument for withdrawal of water is there is a risk to a patient who is immobile of "drowning" or so I believe but I am sure in some cases it hastens death but the patient is totally unaware and there is no cruelty involved as far as the terminally ill patient is concerned, although the same cannot be said as far as the family are concerned. Please don't think I didn't care what they did to my MiL as I was devastated to see her die and the effect it had on my wife and her Dad but she would have hung on for a just a few days more without any hope of recovery.
She was the 3rd person I had seen die this way in as many years and it's an awful experience for all concerned.
 
Try watching someone being "allowed to die" on the Liverpool Care Pathway. Do that to an animal and you'd end up inside.
 
Nod said:
Try watching someone being "allowed to die" on the Liverpool Care Pathway. Do that to an animal and you'd end up inside.
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From personal experience, totally agree! A horrible way to end any life, even a terminal one.
 
My experience of it being used with my husband was that it was superb nursing care
 
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