Golden Eagles in Snowdonia

Will be great if they do, let's hope there isn't any unjustified opposition.
 
gramps said:
Will be great if they do, let's hope there isn't any unjustified opposition.
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I noted in the article that the (Welsh?) farmers were concerned about livestock, but then I'm sure I read something in the past that around 16,000 Welsh farms receive and share £200M EU funding annually - which could disappear, ergo so could the farms and subsequently the opposition?
 
The farmer talking on BBc news this morning didn't feel there was a problem at all
 
gman said:
I noted in the article that the (Welsh?) farmers were concerned about livestock, but then I'm sure I read something in the past that around 16,000 Welsh farms receive and share £200M EU funding annually - which could disappear, ergo so could the farms and subsequently the opposition?
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Is it really too much to ask that we could have one thread that doesn't degenerate into a 'discussion' of Brexit, because I don't know how anyone else feels but I'm getting close to not bothering to come in here any more.
I hope you're a veggie, because if you're not you're a hypocrit.

That aside, we do have to be aware that though it may seem a great idea to reintroduce a species that hasn't been in an area for a very long time, things do change and there may no longer be a place for that species without causing a lot of problems. In this case, however, it seems there is plenty of evidence that there shouldn't be a problem and that fears can be laid to rest. I very much hope it does go ahead successfully. I have seen a golden eagle just once, doing a low and slow flypast over a fairly remote Scottish loch, and it's something I'm going to remember for the rest of my life. Seen plenty of white tailed eagles in Scotland, but somehow they're just not the same........
 
It was really just a bit of tongue in cheek but never mind.
 
The bizarre thing about all of this is that you wait for years for an eagle re-introduction project to come to Wales and two come along on the same day!

One is based at Cardiff University and seems to be taking the tortoise route to success; they are doing some very basic survey work ("a pre-feasibility study") at the moment to see what the chances of success might be. The other project is very gung-ho, expects to get its application in this year, and is claiming that it may even bring young birds across from Europe soon afterwards. My guess is that the latter will fail at the first stage because it seems to have done very little ground work and would be unlikely to get its licence.

And in fact gman is exactly right. Brexit is very relevant to this because Welsh sheep farming is totally reliant on subsidies which may disappear within a few years. Although they are fighting it tooth and nail - with their usual mix of ignorance and arrogance - the Farming Unions may lose the battle to keep farming sheep in the Uplands.
 
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I'd prefer the spread of golden eagles (and other species too) to be natural but I think there might be geographical isolation that would prevent it (at least for some time), and therefore giving a bit of help is not a bad idea at all.

It has worked very well with the red kite, which is now a common bird in many areas (I recall seeing two close to Plynlimon in, about 1983, which at the time must have been close to 2% of the UK population).

The views of the sheep farmers must be taken into consideration and I can see their concern. The eagles will take the odd, probably not too healthy, lamb but I recall the concern of sheep farmers around Gairloch when the white tailed eagle was reintroduced to Wester Ross around the late 1990s. Radio tracking collars were fitted to a number(have to admit I do not know how many) lambs in the area and none were found to have been predated by the white tailed eagles.

Dave
 
You know what , it’s a lot of hype ,someone somewhere will be making money out of this , perhaps the fools should ask before they do these expensive surveys , ,
Why have I written this and taken this stance , because two or three years ago I saw photos of golden eagles over snowdonia from a trusted source . There not common and not publicised for obvious reasons . But unless you know what your looking for you would never know ,yes there a big bird but the welsh mountains and hills are a very large area
 
Darth M said:
I wonder how many gamekeepers there are in Snowdonia?
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I can see what you're getting at but the answer is virtually none.

the black fox said:
You know what , it’s a lot of hype ,someone somewhere will be making money out of this , perhaps the fools should ask before they do these expensive surveys , ,
Why have I written this and taken this stance , because two or three years ago I saw photos of golden eagles over snowdonia from a trusted source . There not common and not publicised for obvious reasons . But unless you know what your looking for you would never know ,yes there a big bird but the welsh mountains and hills are a very large area
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Your trusted source is amost certainly mistaken ( like 99.9%). Snowdonia is a big place but there are huge numbers of people out and about during the breeding season. It is almost certain (99.9%) that they would be known about.

Your cynicism is misplaced, I'm afraid.
 
jerry12953 said:
I can see what you're getting at but the answer is virtually none.



Your trusted source is amost certainly mistaken ( like 99.9%). Snowdonia is a big place but there are huge numbers of people out and about during the breeding season. It is almost certain (99.9%) that they would be known about.

Your cynicism is misplaced, I'm afraid.
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so your actually calling me a liar , I saw the bloody pictures on the back of here camera within a hour of them being taken , they COULD NOT have been from elsewhere as I was with her earlier that day and joined up later on unless you can splice shots onto a c/f card they are most definitely there .. nowhere have I said breeding ..clear as a bell a golden eagle above a pair of red kites .. the photographer in question would not alert anyone to its presence as she believed it would have endangered it .. and your doubt is doubly misplaced the bloody things have wings ...

I simply cannot believe the doubting Thomas idiots on here sometimes . and I also live in north Wales btw
 
If there isn't many gamekeepers they may survive. You don't have to travel far to the east before raptor populations are being "controlled"
 
There has been a single golden eagle (believed to be an escape) which has been flying above the hills of west wales for about 6 years.
 
Trouble is that there is unlikely to be enough of the normal prey to sustain a viable population so they will turn to anything they can eat including lambs and carrion.
 
Carrion is part of their natural diet
 
regen said:
There has been a single golden eagle (believed to be an escape) which has been flying above the hills of west wales for about 6 years.
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Yes, I was going to mention that. I wonder if it was the one that black fox's trusted source saw. It is semi-habituated to people and behaves in a way that wild birds wouldn't do - like letting people take its photograph..........:thinking:

Some people say it is not pure golden eagle, in fact - some kind of hybrid - but I don't know what the latest thinking is.
 
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the black fox said:
so your actually calling me a liar , I saw the bloody pictures on the back of here camera within a hour of them being taken , they COULD NOT have been from elsewhere as I was with her earlier that day and joined up later on unless you can splice shots onto a c/f card they are most definitely there .. nowhere have I said breeding ..clear as a bell a golden eagle above a pair of red kites .. the photographer in question would not alert anyone to its presence as she believed it would have endangered it .. and your doubt is doubly misplaced the bloody things have wings ...

I simply cannot believe the doubting Thomas idiots on here sometimes . and I also live in north Wales btw
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I shall ignore the tone of your post but point out there is a world of difference between one bird floating around an area (see post above) and what you said in your original post ie

the black fox said:
I saw photos of golden eagles over snowdonia from a trusted source . There not common and not publicised for obvious reasons . But unless you know what your looking for you would never know ,yes there a big bird but the welsh mountains and hills are a very large area
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FWIW, I've seen a Golden Eagle flying over Devon. Would have photos of it but I was wearing a falconer's glove at the time.
 
lightshipman said:
Listening to a program earlier today on the radio on this subject, the scientist did state that lambs are not the normal prey for Golden Eagles.
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I didn't hear the interview but if you mean Dr O'Donoghue I have my doubts about his project. He doesn't appear to have done any ecological groundwork at all and is therefore unlikely to get a licence to do the re-introduction. It is also worth noting that he is a one-man band and a very recently incorporated limited company. Apparently huge numbers of mountain hares are killed and disposed of in Scotland by the shooting fraternity. If he were to introduce mountain hares into the Welsh hills BEFORE doing the eagle re-introduction then that might work. But that is another project which would probably take years to get off the ground.

From what I know about it the Cardiff University project seems far more realistic about introducing eagles.
 
I wish! I was flying a Harris Hawk, the GE was being flown by the display girl.
 
<div data-xf-p="1">Carrion is part of their natural diet</div><div data-xf-p="1"></div>

It certainly is and is plentiful in the form of natural deer deaths in Scotland. However apart from a few naturalised goats it is not so plentiful in the hills of wales particularly as any dead sheep are supposed to be disposed off via the incinerators. Hares and even rabbits are in relatively short supply so the introduction of a top predator will probably tip the balance for some of the species we are trying to conserve!
 
"Supposed to be" and "are" are very different! Similar rules regarding carcasses apply on Dartmoor but there are often piles of bones and fresher bits of (large) carrion around.
 
Apparently, any species re-introduction project has to satisfy FIFTY-THREE criteria, according to the International Union for Nature Conservation......

My guess is that the project headed by Paul O'Donaghue will fail on quite a few of those.......

It appears that he was also behind the proposed lynx re-introduction In the Kielder Forest (Northumberland/Scotland) which was quite controversial and failed to get the go-ahead. He has form.
 
The more you look in to Paul O' Donoghue the more you worry about his involvement. He is also behind an organisation known as Wildcat Haven which has employed some very dubious tactics towards anyone criticising its work. Like suing them for defamation........
 
Im Welsh and live in West Wales and can confirm it is common knowledge that there is a huge Eagle here thought to be a Golden Eagle.
Im sure it was filmed by a professional crew and shown on a Welsh TV program years ago.
 
Thank you for the confirmation of my posts above .. ..
 
Caerus said:
Im Welsh and live in West Wales and can confirm it is common knowledge that there is a huge Eagle here thought to be a Golden Eagle.
Im sure it was filmed by a professional crew and shown on a Welsh TV program years ago.
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Yes, I have some photographs of it taken in 2011. Apparently it is still around, but a very long way from Snowdonia.
 
It is based in the tregaron area and unlikely to venture further than Ceredigion and carmarthenshire. This is a single bird and not the eagles apparently seen and photographed in Snowdonia.

There are are a lot of wild deer on dartmoor which die from time to time and are not subject to the same rues as dead sheep!
 
Wool and deer hair are different enough for me to know the difference (and antlers are different to horns.)
 
regen said:
There are are a lot of wild deer on dartmoor which die from time to time and are not subject to the same rues as dead sheep!
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A few deer but not many - not exactly deer habitat - though I have seen reds on the edge and a single roe buck on the open moor miles from anywhere (I think he was lost). You may be thinking of Exmoor. Lots of sheep, ponies and cows, and it's fairly common to come across a slightly less than fresh carcass. I know that smell only too well :puke:. Is fallen stock on open moorland subject to the same rules as on enclosed land? The local foxes, rooks, ravens and buzzards don't starve.
 
Mum and Dad used to live on the edge of the moor (within DNP - Buckfast, just above the abbey) and there were a lot of deer in the woods, encouraged by the landowner (a friend of Dad's). Not on the open moor, as you say, although I have seen them near Postbridge.
 
You would be amazed how many dead sheep and even ponies are lying around in the bracken and heather on the Welsh mountains. When I was paragliding over the tops you could smell them from hundreds of feet up and see them easily but they'd be very difficult to spot at ground level.
 
Nod said:
Mum and Dad used to live on the edge of the moor (within DNP - Buckfast, just above the abbey) and there were a lot of deer in the woods, encouraged by the landowner (a friend of Dad's). Not on the open moor, as you say, although I have seen them near Postbridge.
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There certainly are some in the woods around Postbridge/Bellever. I haven't seen them there yet but I'm sure I will one day. I've seen and photographed 3 red hinds on the moor side of the Fernworthy wall so it's possible they're from the same population. The roe buck was on the ridge running south from Ter Hill so I think he'd definitely misplaced his sense of direction.
 
Jannyfox said:
A few deer but not many - not exactly deer habitat - though I have seen reds on the edge and a single roe buck on the open moor miles from anywhere (I think he was lost). You may be thinking of Exmoor. Lots of sheep, ponies and cows, and it's fairly common to come across a slightly less than fresh carcass. I know that smell only too well :puke:. Is fallen stock on open moorland subject to the same rules as on enclosed land? The local foxes, rooks, ravens and buzzards don't starve.
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Thanks Janny fox. I was thinking of Devon as a whole and did not realise the difference between Dartmoor and Exmoor regarding deer. All fallen stock is the responsibility of the owner, who,if proven not to have dealt with it may loose all or part of their farm payment. Deer, unless ear tagged, belong to nobody. As you say the local top predators don't starve but is there really room for another one? If eagles,for example, are taking the lions share of fallen stock then will the foxes take more lambs to survive?
 
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