Going to buy lighting kit..

[tfphotography]

Hi there,

I really thought that I would have already found a post on this but I haven't so I apologize if this has been posted already...

Having read the 'Which Flash System?' sticky, I know what system I will need and I've decided on a brand (unless someone else suggests otherwise), and thats to go for monoblocs from Lencarta.

Is the best place to buy from their website? There isn't a massive range of monobloc lights on there and I have an always habit for avoiding the cheap 'budget' items on websites..

I am going to make a home studio, so I will need a kit with accessories such as an umbrella and a softbox (if necessary) with stands. I also require a background.. but having read something on here about a grey background, now i'm confused about that as well.

One thing I will say is, before joining this forum I thought photography was easy... oh, how wrong I was.

And also, what sort of power will I need for a space that is approximately 15ft x 15ft?

I guess I should also add my budget is that of around £500 - £1000 but obviously, it'd be nice if it was closer to £500 .. Hope that's not too ambitious.

Many thanks!

 

[Phil V]

There's lots of similar threads, but no 2 people have exactly the same requirements.

Don't be scared of the cheapest Lencarta heads, they have plenty of power for the space you have available.
The 2 head kit is customisable too, backgrounds and stands are available from all over the place, when you've figured out exactly what you need.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I wrote an article here about flash power, unfortunately it lost all it's photos, so it's even more boring than most of my other articles, but it may help.

Flash power used to be important, back in the days when everyone shot on 100 ISO film, or in the early days of digital, when cranking up the ISO totally destroyed the image quality, but it's hardly relevant now. 200Ws is more than enough for most situations, most of the time, even at 100 ISO, and if push comes to shove then we "increase" the power by adjusting the ISO setting on the camera, it's as simple as that.

Studio flash isn't about power, it's about controlling the light, and that's achieved by a combination of the right light shaping tools, knowledge and care.

The SmartFlash will do everything you need, and the new model, which will replace the ones currently on the website in a week or two, have a much better spec than the current ones. Everyone who orders the current one will get the new improved model.

The website will be updated as soon as I get to know the prices and delivery date.

 

[Tunbridge]

I started on a similar journey to yourself (with a similar budget) and you are right it’s not easy. Studio photography is made even harder by the fact you aren’t going to be doing it in a studio. I’m guessing your 15 x 15ft space is a room in your house? If the ceiling is low it will make things harder and if the walls and/or ceiling are painted white you will find it difficult to control the light as it will just bounce round everywhere. It is possible though you just need to understand the limitations and how to work with them to reduce their affects.
As for where to buy, I bought some of my stuff from the classifieds on here (not sure if you have access yet) and that will help keep your budget under control. The only issue with that is that the flash heads don’t come up for sale too often and sell quickly. I’ve also bought stuff of the Lencarta website to add to what I have and now have a decent collection of softbox and light modifiers.
Background wise it just depends what look you are trying to achieve. I have black and white paper backgrounds and they work well for me. There isn’t always a lot of love for the white background style images on here but my mrs likes them so when I’m doing shots of the kids that’s often what I do. Be warned though it’s not easy to get right and if you can avoid it your life will be way easier. There are certainly plenty of threads on this on here. If you do want the white background look then you will need to light it so will require one (ideally 2) flash heads for this.
The general advice on here is to start with one light (even if you have bought more) and a reflector and learn how to use it and understand it. Starting off with 3 or 4 lights all at once will just get you into a mess and you won’t be able to tell easily which is doing what.
A good recommendation and something that has really helped me is the book Light Science and Magic.
Budget wise, if it was me starting out again I’d get:
2 head Smartflash kit 400W (the one with 1 softbox and an umbrella, plus stands) for £320
Radio /Triggers (about £25)
5 in 1 reflector (£15)
Background wise, either use a wall to start with, or:
Background Support system £100 (could get a cheaper one but you would regret it)
Paper Background (colour of your choice) about £40/roll

That’s about £500 and would keep you busy for a while. You could always add more heads / softboxes / modifies then as you need them and once you get a better understanding of what you want to achieve and what you are taking photos off.

 

[tfphotography]

Fantastic! Cheers guys for the comments.

That’s about £500 and would keep you busy for a while.

In all honesty, I just want to get the ball rolling! So from the list you have given me, that is a great help!
You were correct, it is a room in my house, however the ceiling are considerably higher than most houses.
The colour of the walls are... a light greeny colour.. maybe a little greener than turquoise. Will this have an impact on my shots? If need be I can buy necessary sheets to cover walls near the shooting area.

With regards to the background, I do favor black backgrounds, I think they look the best, however I think for practicality and demands sake, it would be better for clients to have a white background also.. say for kids or a couple or something. I guess I can have both, right!?

I wouldn't normally take quite so much time making a decision on buying something, but I want to know what is needed, and get it right first time so I can get started with learning and understanding it all so i'm not wasting time faffing around getting the right bits and pieces.

Studio flash isn't about power, it's about controlling the light, and that's achieved by a combination of the right light shaping tools, knowledge and care.

Hi Garry,

Thanks for the advice. The only trouble i'm having is.. I feel that to buy the Smartflash lights instead of something with more power is like buying a 400D instead of a 5Dmk3..? If you can understand that! ha! I know people always say its the photographer, not the equipment but I'm not convinced thats entirely the case.. but would the less powerful wattage lights limit me in the long term? And at what point do people say.. actually I need some lights with more power? Surely, that's like saying 'i need an upgrade from my 400D now to a better model'. In a way, i'm trying to cut out the beginners gear and start with intermediate.. I hope i'm not babbling on and chatting rubbish!

This is all so new to me so my head is scrambled!

Many thanks
Toby

 

[Phil V]

...
Hi Garry,

Thanks for the advice. The only trouble i'm having is.. I feel that to buy the Smartflash lights instead of something with more power is like buying a 400D instead of a 5Dmk3..? If you can understand that! ha! I know people always say its the photographer, not the equipment but I'm not convinced thats entirely the case.. but would the less powerful wattage lights limit me in the long term? And at what point do people say.. actually I need some lights with more power? Surely, that's like saying 'i need an upgrade from my 400D now to a better model'. In a way, i'm trying to cut out the beginners gear and start with intermediate.. I hope i'm not babbling on and chatting rubbish!

This is all so new to me so my head is scrambled!

Many thanks
Toby

I'll knock your camera analogy first: A complete newbie buying a 5dIII or 1dx will be gaining nothing over a 400d, and it'll be a long time before he appreciates the difference, and even longer before he realises it makes no difference at all. But - lighting power isn't the same thing at all.

I'd hope you understand the inverse square law before starting here? If not, that's the first thing on your reading list. People who shoot newborns have problems getting the lowest powered lights low enough, more powerful lights would be completely useless. 400watt heads on full power in a domestic room will require an ND filter on your camera, does that make you see the light? (pun most certainly intended).

The simple basic fact is that a more powerful light will give you a brighter light over a larger area (it really is that simple) so a small weak flashgun will struggle in from short range against the sun, 400w/s gives you a good fight for that. But you're not trying to overpower the sun or burn your subjects eyeballs out, the most you'll be shooting is subjects a couple of metres away, and you can happily go to ISO 400 and you might even want to be shooting a shallow DoF, that really doesn't take much power. A flash isn't like a camera with a million configurations, it just puts out a light, which you control and modify - that's where you spend your money.

(camera analogy returns) Buying top powered flashes and shooting a crap background and using crap modifiers is like using a D800 and getting a 50mb file from a soft lens with no thought to composition, you get a crap picture having spent a load on (the wrong) gear.

 

[JonathanRyan]

I've used the (soon to be obsolete) SmartFlash quite a bit. The only things that really separate them from more expensive lights from Lencarta are

1. Power. They are 200 w/s. That's plenty for lots of things but if it's not enough then it's not enough.
2. Modelling light. They are non proportional. That doesn't bother me a lot since I have a good imagination but if you're getting to grips with studio lighting you may prefer proportional modelling lights.
3. The build. They are ugly, bulky (they take a bigger peli case than much bigger lights due to the bulge) and look like cheap lights. None of that really bothers me because my clients tend not to judge me on the kit I use. If you think yours are going to then you may want something that looks a little more refined.

But I've absolutely no idea what the new ones are like and the website doesn't give any clues. (Hmm I just noticed that one of the 2 "reviews" are remarks of mine taken out of context....I certainly wouldn't give them 5 stars and I'm surprised that Zack Arias did.).

I've said it before, wait until February. Lots of little used lighting kit available on eBay then.

 

[tfphotography]

I'd hope you understand the inverse square law before starting here? If not, that's the first thing on your reading list. People who shoot newborns have problems getting the lowest powered lights low enough, more powerful lights would be completely useless. 400watt heads on full power in a domestic room will require an ND filter on your camera, does that make you see the light? (pun most certainly intended).

Thanks Phil,

I haven't a clue what inverse square law is, will read up on that pronto.
I was just wondering, when would the more powerful flashes come in use? And why are the professional lights more powerful?
Whereas with cameras, the prices of a budget model would be of around £300 with low specs and professional cameras that cost around £2.5k with high specs have something to compare as to justify the price increase.. but if a light simply 'just puts out a light', then how can the professional models with high wattage justify such a massive price gap from the lower wattage?

Again, I am sorry for trying to question everything, I just feel it's a good way to get my head around it all! Hope my comment is understood!

Thanks

 

[mike weeks]

As Garry said it is about control and what you are paying for in the main is better engineering, better support network, bigger dealers margin. Better engineering generally means more features, better colour consistency at all power settings - with the sort of prices you are mentioning you may also have looked at battery powered systems which generally need to be more expensive than their mains powered equivalents.

Mike

 

[Phil V]

They don't just get more expensive when they're more powerful, though that's half the story:
Think 1100 Fiesta vs 1600 Fiesta

But then there's also the build quality:
Think Fiesta vs Audi A3

So you can buy a top of the range Audi A3 instead of a Fiesta 1100L but you're only driving it up and down your drive (you'll never be doing anything other than ticking over in 1st gear).

If you had said you needed something for the Autobahn, then that's different. You're in a small room shooting relatively small objects (people) and what you might think of as a high ceiling probably isn't (could you put a 120cm softbox high enough so that the bottom of it is above a standing person's head?) so it's still a small space and a low ceiling, they're your limitations.

So back to the point we've already raised - modifiers will change the quality of the light that falls on your subject, backgrounds, posing cushions, stools, blocks and props will completely change the look of your images, that's where you spend the time effort and money if you want to create good photo's (and training).

It's like trying to convince someone that a 400d and £3000 worth of travel will produce better landscape photo's than a 5dIII that never leaves the house. It's not what you shoot with, it's what you shoot.

 

[tfphotography]

They don't just get more expensive when they're more powerful, though that's half the story:
Think 1100 Fiesta vs 1600 Fiesta

But then there's also the build quality:
Think Fiesta vs Audi A3

So you can buy a top of the range Audi A3 instead of a Fiesta 1100L but you're only driving it up and down your drive (you'll never be doing anything other than ticking over in 1st gear).

If you had said you needed something for the Autobahn, then that's different. You're in a small room shooting relatively small objects (people) and what you might think of as a high ceiling probably isn't (could you put a 120cm softbox high enough so that the bottom of it is above a standing person's head?) so it's still a small space and a low ceiling, they're your limitations.

So back to the point we've already raised - modifiers will change the quality of the light that falls on your subject, backgrounds, posing cushions, stools, blocks and props will completely change the look of your images, that's where you spend the time effort and money if you want to create good photo's (and training).

It's like trying to convince someone that a 400d and £3000 worth of travel will produce better landscape photo's than a 5dIII that never leaves the house. It's not what you shoot with, it's what you shoot.

Your analogies are extremely helpful!
I really appreciate your help, has made my thoughts so much clearer!

Still not 100% sure on which brand to chose though

 

[Phil V]

Your analogies are extremely helpful!
I really appreciate your help, has made my thoughts so much clearer!

Still not 100% sure on which brand to chose though

It's not an easy choice, the conservative choice would be Bowens, for budget go Lencarta, if you're a lottery winner Profoto. The choice is endless though. Do you have a budget in mind?

 

[tfphotography]

Do you have a budget in mind?

Yeah! I've heard a lot of really good things about the Bowens brand which I always tend to lean towards when spending a lot of money on electronics..

Ideally I would aim to spend between say.. £600 - £800 on the entire studio.. including modifiers and background. Which does seem possible from what i've seen online but, as I've said I really just want to get it right, and if that means i've got to spend more, then that's what i'll do (within reason) and if it's within budget or less, then fantastic!

 

[Phil V]

Trying not to overdo this, but if it's either Bowens and simple modifiers or Lencarta and quality modifiers, spend the money on modifiers.

However if you can go Bowens and decent modifiers too, different kettle of fish.

 

[stupar]

If its of any assistance I use the current Lencarta smartflash 200 with a 120cm Octabox.
My normal setup for baby and toddler portraits is a mere 4ft by 6ft but the other day I was using the same setup in a space that was approx 14ft by 10ft.
The smartflash 200 coped perfectly well with the only issue being the light fall off across the background when doing the family shots - Nothing a second smartflash wouldn't of alleviated though.