Getting started with a first speedlight.

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glennk

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Glenn
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Hi Guys,

As mentioned elsewhere Ive just bought a single Yonguo 565ex and triggers. It had taken me a couple of years to get really familiar and competant with my camera (Canon 500d).

I had a first play with the speedlight yesterday (outdoors) and made some progress with the flash on camera.

My first problems have been the multiple settings on the flash. Basically Im baffled.

Is there an easy to read guide (not the manual I hate it) on what each setting does. Im baffled by all the abbreviations such as ettl.

Most of my pics will be outdoors. Some portraits and mostly people with a seascape background as I take lots of outdoor sea angling shots.

All help really appreciated.
 
Big Andy said:
:agree: I didn't have a clue what I was doing with my canon flash until reading/watching that series. It's a lot easier than it sounds when reading the manual, it really is the light at the end of the tunnel. (Pun intended).
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Go to his blog/website if you can and I can also recommend his videos. He goes WAY beyond the manuals. Technicals are covered of course, but the techniques he shows you really bring it all home.
 
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Here guys this is the type of place I want to photograph. I know this shot isnt that good, it was taken with a compact and I used my headlight to light the area, and its just an example of the sort of places I will be. Any tips and advice on how to get the best out of such a place would also be appreciated.


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There's nothing to bounce off and no ambient there so getting the flash OFF the camera and shooting through a brolly or softbox will help (stick the flash on a stand and get a radio trigger/receiver (like the Yongnuo 622C)

Otherwise the shot with a dslr will look the same as this.

With a trigger / receiver you can place the light where you want it.

This is a tough situation for a flash and not really sure what you want to get.
 
EOS_JD said:
There's nothing to bounce off and no ambient there so getting the flash OFF the camera and shooting through a brolly or softbox will help (stick the flash on a stand and get a radio trigger/receiver (like the Yongnuo 622C)

Otherwise the shot with a dslr will look the same as this.

With a trigger / receiver you can place the light where you want it.

This is a tough situation for a flash and not really sure what you want to get.
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That exactly.

It's all about direction and quality, and a small point source of light close to the lens is the same if it's a compact or a Metz hammerhead on a Hasselblad.
 
If you hate reading, watch Syl Arena's videos on youtube. Made understanding his book much easier and more interesting.
 
Glad I posted now because you made me think what it is I actually want to achieve here. Im not after anything special. This shot was taken on a long exposure so my friend had to stand still for 10 to 20 seconds. If I could light him with a flash I could get that exposure time right down.

Maybe I could fill the whole area with a flash through an umbrella ? and maybe a second light behind the big rock lighting up the sea behind.

I guess Im going to have to play to get what I want. Also Ill be shooting on piers in the dark. Again just lighting the immediate fishing area and the person.
 
Your pic above... With a couple of radio-triggered guns (or three) and especially some knowledge/skill and effort, you could make some fantastic images in a location like that.

Say a medium size 60cm folding softbox as main subject light, then another naked gun behind a rock for the background and a third lighting up something interesting/colourful or back-lighting the guy or whatever, you would be amazed at what could be done :thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
Your pic above... With a couple of radio-triggered guns (or three) and especially some knowledge/skill and effort, you could make some fantastic images in a location like that.

Say a medium size 60cm folding softbox as main subject light, then another naked gun behind a rock for the background and a third lighting up something interesting/colourful or back-lighting the guy or whatever, you would be amazed at what could be done :thumbs:
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Hoppy I agree but if the OP has never used OCF that then shooting with even one light is hard enough. :) (although I know it's relatively simple).
 
EOS_JD said:
Hoppy I agree but if the OP has never used OCF that then shooting with even one light is hard enough. :) (although I know it's relatively simple).
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Granted. But if my own experience of fishing trips is anything to go by, there's plenty of time with nothing else to do :D

Start with one softbox and build from there. I think that fishing gear generally uses the same 1/4 Whit threads for things like nets etc, might be handy to check for attaching stuff.

It'd also be very useful to have remote power control and E-TTL for a situation like that, so Yongnuo 622 triggers?
 
HoppyUK said:
Your pic above... With a couple of radio-triggered guns (or three) and especially some knowledge/skill and effort, you could make some fantastic images in a location like that.

Say a medium size 60cm folding softbox as main subject light, then another naked gun behind a rock for the background and a third lighting up something interesting/colourful or back-lighting the guy or whatever, you would be amazed at what could be done :thumbs:
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:D

Hey thankyou for that. This is all new to me but Im convinced there are some quality shots to be had in the dead of night at some of the places I know. I just gotta get started and experiment I guess. Thanks for your comments they have really spurred me on.
 
HoppyUK said:
Granted. But if my own experience of fishing trips is anything to go by, there's plenty of time with nothing else to do :D

Start with one softbox and build from there. I think that fishing gear generally uses the same 1/4 Whit threads for things like nets etc, might be handy to check for attaching stuff.

It'd also be very useful to have remote power control and E-TTL for a situation like that, so Yongnuo 622 triggers?
Click to expand...

I have one light, a softbox and triggers. Happy to get at least 1 more light. I know I have potential in night fishing to get some awesome shots. I love a challenge and this could be the most challenging yet for me.
 
glennk said:
:D

Hey thankyou for that. This is all new to me but Im convinced there are some quality shots to be had in the dead of night at some of the places I know. I just gotta get started and experiment I guess. Thanks for your comments they have really spurred me on.
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glennk said:
I have one light, a softbox and triggers. Happy to get at least 1 more light. I know I have potential in night fishing to get some awesome shots. I love a challenge and this could be the most challenging yet for me.
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:thumbs:
 
Right ok guys, had another go today. It helps to have decent batteries in the flash as it charged quick today and allowed me to experiemnt. Far from perfect and a long way to go for me but at least Ive got the flash working on camera. I have a few questions for you guys, then I will try again. Then when Im comfortable actually working the flash on camera Ill have a go with it off.

My questions for today :bonk::D

In the mode setting What is

1. ETTL
2. Multi
3. M

Ive been shoting with the flash in M Mode.

It has numbers on the flash like

1/1
1/4
1/16
1/128
etc etc

Am I correct in thinking this is the strength of the flash with 1 being full power and 1/138 being much lower powered flash ??

I have a softbox.

What is the difference between putting the flash in the softbox and simply lowering the power of the flash.

Thanks in advance - Glenn
 
You really need to do some reading or at least look at Syl Arena's videos on youtube.

Ettl = camera will determine flash settings
Multi = I suspect this is to do with using it as master/slave flash
M = manual = set the power yourself.

Remember, flash fires at only one "power". What you change is the duration of the flash which makes it seem more or less powerful.

Softbox makes the flash light larger, which has the effect of spreading the light AND reducing the power (inverse square law). Honestly, go read up on this stuff - it's so much easier to see what people are talking about in a video (or in a book with pictures) than on a forum wih just words
 
1. ETTL - the flash measures the 'correct' amount of light required for your ISO/aperture and delivers it.
2. Multi - stroboscopic flashes (very specialist, most photographers wouldn't use it except once as an experiment)
3. M - Manual, with variable power levels

Ive been shoting with the flash in M Mode.

It has numbers on the flash like

1/1
1/4
1/16
1/128
etc etc

Am I correct in thinking this is the strength of the flash with 1 being full power and 1/138 being much lower powered flash ?? Yes, with the flash power reducing by half every time (1 stop) although it'll probably do 1/3 stops in between.

I have a softbox.

What is the difference between putting the flash in the softbox and simply lowering the power of the flash. Massive difference, the most important thing about light is the quality - and a small hard light source is still a small hard lightsource no matter how bright it is, it'll create small hard shadows. A large soft source will create softer shadows (experiment- you'll get it)

All sizes are 'apparent' a large source further away, becomes a small source, like the sun. But then put the sun behind thick cloud cover and you have a massive softbox as all the sky acts as a huge single light source.
 
The way I learn best is to use things. Books just dont do it. Not sure if I have some form of reading problem but it never goes in. Maybe the Video but I find so many of them just miss the main points or talk in Jargon terms.

Ill try some vids, but likely Ill have more questions along the way. Hope you dont mind.

Thanks for your help. I now understand more than I did yesterday. So today ill try again. I now have the softbox set up.
 
Glenn, you have some experience and learning to catch up on, but don't let that put you off :) Here are three fundamentals that always apply to flash working.

1) The larger the light source, the softer the shadows, eg softbox vs bare flash. Size is relative to distance, so moving a softbox back for example, makes the effective size smaller and the shadows harder.

2) Flash brightness falls off rapidly with distance. It follows the inverse square law that says when the distance is doubled the brightness is reduced to one quarter - that's a two stops drop.

3) Light bounces of a surface at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion. Remember this when bouncing off the ceiling or walls, or when positioning a reflector.
 
I know that you want to use your flash, but if your having to use long exposures then you might be better light paintinhg the area ?
 
Phil V said:
1. ETTL - the flash measures the 'correct' amount of light required for your ISO/aperture and delivers it.
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Correction

1. ETTL - the flash measures what it believes is the 'correct' amount of light required for your ISO/aperture and delivers it.


I know you put correct in inverted commas of course. Like the camera it is often fooled by what it sees and delivers too little or too much
 
EOS_JD said:
Correction

1. ETTL - the flash measures what it believes is the 'correct' amount of light required for your ISO/aperture and delivers it.
Click to expand...

You knew why I used inverted commas though :shrug:

So you knew you weren't 'correcting' me :thinking:
 
I knew because I know.
Just easily read wrong if you don't know much about flash
 
EOS_JD said:
Correction



I know you put correct in inverted commas of course. Like the camera it is often fooled by what it sees and delivers too little or too much
Click to expand...

I dont really want to use long exposure for this shot, it was the only option I had at the time. Getting an angler to stand perfectly still whilst you exposure a shot for 30 seconds plus and light him and the landscope up with a torch is difficult. This is why Im keen to use flash if at all possible. If it was just a seascape I would paint with light which is something Im also very keen to do.

As always thoughts and ideas are welcomed.
 
EOS_JD said:
Correction

1. ETTL - the flash measures what it believes is the 'correct' amount of light required for your ISO/aperture and delivers it.


I know you put correct in inverted commas of course. Like the camera it is often fooled by what it sees and delivers too little or too much
Click to expand...

I had this problem with ettl yesterday. On a few occasions it looked like a nuclear bomb had gone off. Im guessing the way forward is manual.
 
You can IIRC still use flash compensation to dial down the output in ETTL.
 
glennk said:
I dont really want to use long exposure for this shot, it was the only option I had at the time. Getting an angler to stand perfectly still whilst you exposure a shot for 30 seconds plus and light him and the landscope up with a torch is difficult. This is why Im keen to use flash if at all possible. If it was just a seascape I would paint with light which is something Im also very keen to do.

As always thoughts and ideas are welcomed.
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The flash will freeze the subject. Shutter speed controls the ambient light -
 
omens said:
You can IIRC still use flash compensation to dial down the output in ETTL.
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imo If you're going to take a shot using ETTL, review it and then use flash compensation and retake you may as well go manual in the first place.

Non-ETTL triggers tend to be much cheaper than the full-fat variants, and by going manual you'll get a better understanding of and more control of what's going on.

ETTL is useful for those cases where you get one chance at a shot because things are moving.
 
juggler said:
imo If you're going to take a shot using ETTL, review it and then use flash compensation and retake you may as well go manual in the first place.
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Completely agree with this. I've been messing around with my 430EXII and I just find it easier to manually control the flash rather than use ETTL, especially for stationary subjects.
 
juggler said:
imo If you're going to take a shot using ETTL, review it and then use flash compensation and retake you may as well go manual in the first place.
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Obviously Im no expert because Im the one asking the questions, but as soon as I read that I thought why not just use manual.

Im keen to get another flash and get off camera. Just waiting on some batteries then I can get more practice in.
 
I would say the hardest part here would be the focusing...looks very dark I assume your using your head torch to nail that...which then leads me to your camera settings are your using?

So you want to nail this down with out a long exposure..

Well as it looks very dark you can kill all the ambient by using a shutter speed of about 1/125, set aperture to f8 (100iso) and based roughy on flash being 6 feet always at 1/4 to 1/2 power you should get a good exposure. (Might have to tweak it here or there). Changing any of the above could make you move the flash closer or further alway or up the flash power output.

Remember this is just the subject more flash units would be required to light the background up. Or if you want ambient light you need to meter for it 1st.

I'm sure if I got this wrong somebody will hopefully correct me :-)
 
To get ambient I'd suggest use flash in the golden hours
 
Danzaroonie said:
I would say the hardest part here would be the focusing...looks very dark I assume your using your head torch to nail that...which then leads me to your camera settings are your using?

So you want to nail this down with out a long exposure..

Well as it looks very dark you can kill all the ambient by using a shutter speed of about 1/125, set aperture to f8 (100iso) and based roughy on flash being 6 feet always at 1/4 to 1/2 power you should get a good exposure. (Might have to tweak it here or there). Changing any of the above could make you move the flash closer or further alway or up the flash power output.

Remember this is just the subject more flash units would be required to light the background up. Or if you want ambient light you need to meter for it 1st.

I'm sure if I got this wrong somebody will hopefully correct me :-)
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Thanks so much for your continued, help support and advice. Ive finally got the flash off camera and working which is major progress for me. My first shots have been poor but At least I now know how to make it actually go off. Now for more experimentation. Im really enjoying this but like anything I know its about confidence and Im a million years away from being confident with it. But were going forward.
 
Hi guys, these are just some of my first ones with flash off camera. Any advice on flash placement, or how I could add another flash to make them more arty would be appreciated. Please dont be too hard on me I am only just learning.













 
Read a book on lighting patterns - Rembrant, loop, butterfly, split etc These seem more to be snaps and hope for the best rather than thinking about the ambient light and flash power.

There's a couple with potential though like No5. But not sure how much flash that's getting (if any)

What modifier did you use?
 
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No modifier because I forgot to take it :-/ . I have a LumiQuest Soft Box III that I will start using and Im willing to buy other stuff such as shoot through brollies if required.

Admittedly they are point, press and hope pics, but at the moment Im trying to get a feel for how the flash actually works and what levels of light you get out on various settings and also im looking at what difference flash placement makes.

LumiQuest Soft Box III
 
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