Game Changer for EV Batteries - Sodium

Interesting.....though as the article seems to be saying the capacity and energy density has to go some way to match Li-Ion batteries.

PS there must have been some reason that Lithium was chosen and just because it is rarer and thus more expensive than Sodium!
 
Li is lighter.
 
Nod said:
Li is lighter.
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A good point ........though just how much Li (compared to Na?) goes into the batteries?

My initial understanding is that it was a very thin (sintered?) coating though the surface area of the active parts must be, in an EV car one hundreds (thousands?) of square metres 'folded' into the construction. A bit like the length of our intestines folded into us.
 
Not sure, I just know that Li is #3 on the Periodic Table so is light!!! I'm guessing that it might be more reactive than Sodium too. And Lithium batteries were an existing technology when the current generation of EVs came along.
 
I'm seeing about one "game changer" article on EVs per week at the moment. And about 10 times as many "they will never catch on/don't work in wales/will cause multi stories to collapse/kill you" articles from people like the daily hate.

Exciting times.
 
Lets hope this is a step forward from lithium but we're still probably left with questions over how we're going to charge millions of electric cars.
 
I think its all about scale more than anything , the chinese are absolutely huge on electric vehicles they have a huge pollution problem from cars and they are going to smash it out , also they will soon dominate the EV world across Europe with low cost options the MG stuff is allready out there and doing well the next round of EV vehicles will decimate the existing suppliers. using sodium in there domestic market is a no brainer , the chinese are not as fixed and dilated on range as the european market, we can't move beyond 180 miles being a good EV.

Over 25% of all new cars sold in China in 2022 were electric, a staggering 93% increase over 2021.
 
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Also coming to the Chinese market is a massive emissions tighten up. which they have delayed to allow some car makers to sort there stock out.
But there is a massive problem for a lot of european car maker who actually will not be able to sell there cars in China because they are not making their cars to the new standard.

i even watched a vid the other day that a lot of EU and JP car manufacturers might go to the wall.

thedriven.io

China delays new pollution standard to appease overstocked car dealers

After originally planning to implement new vehicle pollution standards in July, the Chinese government appears to have capitulated to the demands of auto dealers who are swamped with non-compliant vehicles.
thedriven.io thedriven.io
 
I know you're a big fan Steve but there are massive questions over recycling (it's often a con) and costs and basic stuff like how are we going to generate enough electricity plus of course the infrastructure just isn't there for this to go nationwide and then there's charging times when we're out and about. Filling up with fuel takes minutes from start to finish, that's just not possible at the mo with ev.

I hope for the planets sake that tech moves forward but as of today I haven't changed my mind, I see ev as potentially nothing less than a massive environmental and financial disaster. I hope time proves me wrong but the issues involved are just immense.
 
woof woof said:
I know you're a big fan Steve but there are massive questions over recycling (it's often a con) and costs and basic stuff like how are we going to generate enough electricity plus of course the infrastructure just isn't there for this to go nationwide and then there's charging times when we're out and about. Filling up with fuel takes minutes from start to finish, that's just not possible at the mo with evs.
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I don't really disagree with any of this, but I haven't charged my EV anywhere outside the house since about September. Nor have I had to visit Asda to find out they have run out of petrol again :) If the use case fits you they work great.

Btw, many of the "game changer" articles talk about dramatically faster charging times. Sub 5 mins in at least one case.
 
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woof woof said:
I know you're a big fan Steve but there are massive questions over recycling (it's often a con) and costs and basic stuff like how are we going to generate enough electricity plus of course the infrastructure just isn't there for this to go nationwide and then there's charging times when we're out and about. Filling up with fuel takes minutes from start to finish, that's just not possible at the mo with ev.

I hope for the planets sake that tech moves forward but as of today I haven't changed my mind, I see ev as potentially nothing less than a massive environmental and financial disaster. I hope time proves me wrong but the issues involved are just immense.
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I am not a massive EV fan to be fair , don't own one and couldn't afford one , my next car will be a Greek Dacia Sandero 1.2 petrol when i head over there permanently in approx 14 months.
My utter respect for the Chinese in all there above is how they have recognized the problem in there own country and worked towards a solution that also has global sales in mind, absolutely superb.

yes they still face other pollution problems they are massive into coal still for power generation but that they have so much off it they can lean back on moving towards greener power generation. but they are moving all that pollution into the country and out of there cities, again something we in the UK are still struggling with.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I don't really disagree with any of this, but I haven't charged my EV anywhere outside the house since about September. Nor have I had to visit Asda to find out they have run out of petrol again :) If the use case fits you they work great.

Btw, many of the "game changer" articles talk about dramatically faster charging times. Sub 5 mins in at least one case.
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This is where you live and where you go dependant. We have to consider how viable ev's are for people who live in or travel through less well provided for areas and how the grid will cope will all the vehicles currently in use being potentially replaced by ev's, but this assumes that us lesser people will be allowed to drive private cars or indeed travel at all.
 
Mr Bump said:
I am not a massive EV fan to be fair , don't own one and couldn't afford one , my next car will be a Greek Dacia Sandero 1.2 petrol when i head over there permanently in approx 14 months.
My utter respect for the Chinese in all there above is how they have recognized the problem in there own country and worked towards a solution that also has global sales in mind, absolutely superb.

yes they still face other pollution problems they are massive into coal still for power generation but that they have so much off it they can lean back on moving towards greener power generation. but they are moving all that pollution into the country and out of there cities, again something we in the UK are still struggling with.
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You have to be typing this with your tongue firmly in your cheek. How anyone can give any respect at all never mind utter respect to the Chinese on environmental grounds I just don't know.
 
woof woof said:
You have to be typing this with your tongue firmly in your cheek. How anyone can give any respect at all never mind utter respect to the Chinese on environmental grounds I just don't know.
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Why not ? I didn't say I approve of all there stuff but there business instincts in this situation are spot on.
 
woof woof said:
This is where you live and where you go dependant. We have to consider how viable ev's are for people who live in or travel through less well provided for areas and how the grid will cope will all the vehicles currently in use being potentially replaced by ev's, but this assumes that us lesser people will be allowed to drive private cars or indeed travel at all.
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Exactly. As I said, if the use case fits then they work great. But it's not there yet for all our even most users.

To fuel my car away from home takes anything up to a really inconvenient amount of time and costs about 10x as much as at home. But I do that so rarely that fit me it's not an issue.

I also know of people driving 1000 miles a week who don't use public chargers. It saves them going to a petrol station every day. Others driving much less use public chargers at higher cost and lower convenience.

One day soon, one of these game changers will fix that.
 
Box Brownie said:
Well, this article looks interesting in regard (a?) second generation EV battery.

Still Li but Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate (LMIP), it seems the current 'tweaked' 1st gen ones don't use Manganese.

www.independent.co.uk

Electric car range set to double with first production of breakthrough battery

Mass production of next-generation battery backed by Volkswagen expected to begin next year
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Looks promising, the Chinese certainly seem to be world leaders now in this sort of technology
 
Longer range, lighter batteries still won’t help all the people with no off street parking, or access to roadside parking to make recharging easy/possible?
 
Mr Bump said:
Why not ? I didn't say I approve of all there stuff but there business instincts in this situation are spot on.
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This just shows the wrong headedness of the EV subject. For reasons I don't understand people are willing to overlook the massive environmental impact of the EV chain and you specifically seem blind to the effect China is having but all this is dependant I suppose on how much you buy into the man made climate change issue but if you don't why would ICE v ev's be an issue? It doesn't add up, not for me.

To remind you, China is busy building coal powered power stations and EV requires lithium and cobalt mines and add all this together and you have the potential for massive environmental damage and human concerns too. Damage and concerns which are largely ignored by western liberal protesting c;asses and ev proponents.
 
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