Frustrated as whatnots! [Pics added]

[Marcus Geezer]

Having owned a multiple speedlite setup for no more than a couple of months I may be trying to bite off more than I can chew with my setup but I'm trying to get very even skin lighting and failing. I'm trying to raise the lighting levels to try and achieve a Gary Edinburgh type look but just end up with hotspots rather than an evenly lit up subject. Although in the short space of time I've had my kit I think I've made good progress but now trying to improve again and I feel like I've hit a wall.... :bang:

For reference I have at my disposal the kit in my signature, and tried tonite using the following:

Canon 40D with ST-E2.
Canon 580EXII with stofen and softbox (main light)
Canon 430EX with brolly (fill in and kind of 2nd main light)
Canon 430EX naked (rim lighting on hair)

All in manual.

I'm generally happy with creating different lighting effects with the speedlites, but feel that I'm missing the point on basic stuff such as lighting the subject from the front!

I'm in too much of a despondent mood at the moment to even get the pics off the camera to post up, and will do so in the morning when I drag some enthusiasm from sleep.

Also, what is the point in a brolly for portrait type shots? I bought one to see what all the fuss is about and cant see what it brings to the table? Again probably my inexperience showing.

Help me please!!!!

 

[david1701]

make the brolly the key light

what is the diffuser on the 580? am confuddled

 

[EdinburghGary]

Hia mate,

Give me a call on the studio number tomorrow, 0131 221 9863. I will chat if no shoot is on. You want a nice massive soft light for the faces I been taking the bigger the better, either a HUGE brolly or a massive octobox...

Gary.

 

[david1701]

also how big and what sort is the brolly?

 

[Marcus Geezer]

make the brolly the key light

what is the diffuser on the 580? am confuddled

I use a stofen on the speedlite in the softbox as I find it helps minimise hotspots.

Hia mate,

Give me a call on the studio number tomorrow, 0131 221 9863. I will chat if no shoot is on. You want a nice massive soft light for the faces I been taking the bigger the better, either a HUGE brolly or a massive octobox...

Gary.

Thanks I will!

also how big and what sort is the brolly?

It is one of FITP reflector shoot throughs/reflectors. Think it is one of the 33inch ones.

Sounds like I need to make the key light as big as possible?

 

[Marcus Geezer]

Woke up a little fresher this morning and been thinking about this and although I concede that a bigger softbox seems to be the way forward want to try and make the best of what I have before spending yet more money on kit.

Here's some of my pics from my test session last night. Excuse the model, the composition, etc, etc, it's just about the lighting. These are straight from the camera and have only been cropped and resized using CS2. No rim lighting by the way, just a softbox and brolley.

For a standard run of the mill pic would this be considered about right for exposure?

Bit brighter!

Over exposed?

 

[EdinburghGary]

I prefer the middle exposure here, although I might push it a TEENCY bit more towards over exposure.....

I would also play about with DOF, and really do everything in your power to absolutely get sharper than sharp images, gives it that sparkle. Really hard to do with self portraits.

For the record, the Octobox I'm using is 1.5 metres in diameter I think, the brolly about 60"....

I have not compaired the two, so not sure how much of a difference there is....

G.

 

[The23rdman]

The biggest brolly you'll comfortably be able to use with one speedlight is about 45". also try experimenting with a reflecting brolly too. The light effect is different. with the shoot through you get more fall off because the light is a being pushed away from the subject by the shape of the brolly, whereas a reflecting brolly collects the light and creates more of a wraparound effect. Neither is better, but they are different.

 

[The23rdman]

By the way, I'm with Gary on going for the middle exposure unless you're trying a particular mood.

 

[awp]

Lighting problems include 2 catchlights in the eyes and two nose shadows.

 

[Marcus Geezer]

I prefer the middle exposure here, although I might push it a TEENCY bit more towards over exposure.....

I would also play about with DOF, and really do everything in your power to absolutely get sharper than sharp images, gives it that sparkle. Really hard to do with self portraits.

For the record, the Octobox I'm using is 1.5 metres in diameter I think, the brolly about 60"....

I have not compaired the two, so not sure how much of a difference there is....

G.

The focus is a little off isnt it! But at this point I really was just playing about with the light.

The biggest brolly you'll comfortably be able to use with one speedlight is about 45". also try experimenting with a reflecting brolly too. The light effect is different. with the shoot through you get more fall off because the light is a being pushed away from the subject by the shape of the brolly, whereas a reflecting brolly collects the light and creates more of a wraparound effect. Neither is better, but they are different.

By the way, I'm with Gary on going for the middle exposure unless you're trying a particular mood.

Well I've learnt something from the pair of you about exposure, as I would have considered that one a touch over but next time I play will look at this lighting level. I think I need to grab a patient willing model next time as this will allow me to get a lot more done in less time and allow me to play around more.

Lighting problems include 2 catchlights in the eyes and two nose shadows.

The style I'm trying to perfect at the moment is to use a softbox from the front to give good exposure to the face and then use other speedlites to create rim/hair lighting which should give the image some depth, which I think I can do. Cos I was trying to get that even lighting look I went against this and used one softbox and one brolly from the front and for the test disregarded any attempt at more creative lighting. From this I dont like the effect it gives, so I 100% agree with you, and will stick with one light from the front.


Right, the next question for your strobist fans, what is the biggest softbox I can use with a 580EXII speedlite?

 

[Spiritflier]

Lighting problems include 2 catchlights in the eyes and two nose shadows.

Hi Andrew,

This 'double-catchlight' thing really gets on my wick (not directed at you though ).

I got pulled up for it a while ago during a critique session and was told that it was very 'unprofessional' to have multiple catchlights because we only have one sun so there should only be one catchlight.

Whilst I can see the logic in that argument, take a look at any of the glamour and fashion magazines and you'll find numerous images with two, three, even four catchlights in the model/celebrity's eyes!

@Marcus... I prefer the second one as well but I agree with Gary about the sharpness (although it could just be the upload). Keep at it though... I'm using similar kit to you so I'm watching your progress with interest.

Cheers,
Si

 

[awp]

The double nose shadow bothers me more - it just looks wrong. I think one BIG softlight at the front near the lens axis is all that you need for these type of shots.

 

[tiler65]

I know you say just talk about the lighting but if the image has not had any PP it is hard to tell if the lighting is correct or not.

Different lighting has different contrast to it.

Try and add the same images with you normal PP workflow and I think you will then get a better view on what you think looks right, I have loaded all 3 and PP'ed them and they all look different and good but for varying reasons.

 

[Marcus Geezer]

@Marcus... I prefer the second one as well but I agree with Gary about the sharpness (although it could just be the upload). Keep at it though... I'm using similar kit to you so I'm watching your progress with interest.

Cheers,
Si

Thanks Simon, I've seen your work and it is spiffing and a good example of what can be done with this softbox. As for the sharpness it's not the upload. This was the end of a long day from my 'normal' job and cos I wasnt getting the kind of results I want I didnt pay enough attention to ensuring I was sat on my pre-focussed point.

I just had a good long conversation with Gary and he is indeed a thoroughly nice bloke! He's given me a few pointers and it would seem I'm getting there at least.


Guys, I'm not gonna take the time to PP these images cos they were just done as test, although I fully appreciate where you are coming from with these.

I'm gonna post up a seperate thread regarding speedlite softbox sizes.

Thanks everyone for comments. I feel a bit more positive now.

 

[Spiritflier]

Thanks Simon, I've seen your work and it is spiffing and a good example of what can be done with this softbox...

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for the compliment . It's good to find someone else working in pretty much the same way that I am. The shots I did with Holly the other day worked out a lot better than I'd anticipated (probably 'cos she was really easy to work with ).

I'm going to be following the softbox thread with interest 'cos that's where I think I need to go next as well. I'm currently running the 7D with a 580EXII, a 430EXII and a 430EX so our setups aren't too dissimilar. I was thinking about ordering another 24in softbox (or one of FITP's 32in ones) but the light from 'em doesn't spread as far as I'd like so I'm hoping he'll be able to come up with a solution that'll allow the 580EXII to connect with the octoboxes he's getting in.

Don't let the knocks get you down... It's all a part of the learning curve and at least with digital, the mistakes aren't particularly costly.

Take care,
Si