Football Photography UK Leagues

  • Thread starter Thread starter meatcandy89
  • Start date Start date
M

meatcandy89

Guest
Hi,

Im just starting out in amateur photographer, i took a keen interest when i was a bit younger and did it at alvl but havnt picked up a camera for the past few years.
Im trying ot pick myself up something along the lines of a D7 in the coming weeks/months and keen interested in shooting some football.

Now i know its not the easiest thing to get into with all of the accreditations you have to get but im wondering if there is many people around on here that have their Leage/Premier league licenses?

Ive contacted a few local teems who seem greatfull for the chance of me coming down and taking some pics, hopefully will turn it into a bit of a regular thing with some of the sunday leagues.

Just looking for some tips from anyone who has done it/doing it on the best way to get some of the pics published in the press?

Is it really just a case of phoning around a lot of the local news papers to see if they need any shots?

Is it a similar case for the rugby superleague/league accreditations, im located aroun the st helens area so there is a lot of rugby going on but i cant find any informaton on the internet relating to these?

I understand all of this is speculative of me getting good shots but that aside, assuming ive got some crackers.


Im looking to turn it into a hobby/bit on the side so getting both football and rugby licensed would be great. Any advice welcomed and hopefully it will lead into a long a prosperous membership the site in the coming months when i get myself setup!!!!

Thanks in advance.

Tom
 
Tom.

I hope you have a comfy seat because this will take a while, you should be prepared for lots of bad advice and some good advice.

First point i am assuming you mean a D3/4 not a D7 (which doesn't exist).

EDIT: Do you mean D700? still lots of money if your new to it

Why spend so much money on a body when you are starting out? spending huge amounts on kit at the beginning DOES NOT WORK, believe me i speak from experience!

Buy a basic body and 70-200 first and see how you get on, go down to the local park and shoot the sunday league football........Practice, Practice and Practice some more.

If you enjoy it and are good at it, then go and look at approaching the local papers....

100% guarantee that their stock response will be. " Hello Tom, we would love to look at your pictures and use some of them in the paper, sadly we just don't have the budget to pay you for them, because we are such genuine kind hearted people though, when we use your images and badly crop them and use the ones that are out of focus we will credit you by putting your name next to them......"

isn't that great :shrug: they will get free images instead of paying money to a professional like they used to and you get 15 minutes of fame.

If you are really serious about doing this as a career then take the time to learn the skills required as a photographer. It doesn't matter if your the best photographer in the world, if you can't sit in the freezing cold and shoot a game, whilst downloading editing and captioning shots your wasting you time, taking a picture is a tiny part of what is involved.

If all you want is to shoot some pictures and feel good because you have seen them published i would think very carefully about it. You might not see the harm in giving your shots to the papers but it is damaging to other photographers.

As for accreditation, i refer you to my earlier point. Are you wanting to do this as a career or for a hobby. If it is for a hobby then stay down the park on a sunday. A professional sports venue with professional sports photographers trying to make a living is no place for somebody who just wants a bit of fun.

You may get lucky and find an agency that will give you a few games under their license, they have nothing to loose.....you might get lucky, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.All i am saying is unless you seriously want to do this full time don't even think of taking it further than sunday league football at the park.

You have no right being in a professional sports venue filled with professional sports photographers, it is their place of work, not somewhere for hobby photographers.

You need to ask how would you feel if someone came to your place of work and started doing your job without being paid, unless your on a regular commission or salary (rare as rocking horse ****) then this is EXACTLY what you are doing.

The market becomes flooded with images taken by people who don't care if they get anything used and it cuts off income for professionals who need the income to keep food on their plates, papers stop giving commissions because they know there are plenty of people sending images who will be cheaper (or free) as a result the quality of images in print drops......

Finally, ask would you really want to be sat at Castleford on a friday night in -5 when its ****ing down, knowing you have very little chance of seeing anything used and knowing the people sat around you don't want you there.......


Sorry if this sounds harsh but you shouldn't be under any illusions, it is bloody hard to earn money from it, your social life disappears and it really isn't as enjoyable as you might think.


I'm off now before the keyboard warriors arrive, i can hear the jungle drums beating already..........


Just the point of view from an (Ex) Weekend Warrior. :wave:
 
Last edited:
Rovers_Andy said:
I'm off now before the keyboard warriors arrive, i can hear the jungle drums beating already..........


Just the point of view from an (Ex) Weekend Warrior. :wave:
Click to expand...
Why Andy, all youve said is 100% correct, have you packed in then???

As for your point about sitting at Cas on a wet Friday night, i covered the first ever game at Salfords new ground in the snowstorm, not funny indeed, was 3.15am in the morning before i got home after being snowed in across the tops of the Pennines on the M62

Tom, head to the talk sport section and theres useful information in the pinned topics at the top of the page., but it depends on what you want to do and where you want to go with your photography, if as you say you want to turn it into a hobby then forget getting any sort of licence, it wont happen.
 
Last edited:
Gary Coyle said:
Why Andy, all youve said is 100% correct, have you packed in then???

As for your point about sitting at Cas on a wet Friday night, i covered the first ever game at Salfords new ground in the snowstorm, not funny indeed, was 3.15am in the morning before i got home after being snowed in across the tops of the Pennines on the M62

Tom, head to the talk sport section and theres useful information in the pinned topics at the top of the page., but it depends on what you want to do and where you want to go with your photography, if as you say you want to turn it into a hobby then forget getting any sort of licence, it wont happen.
Click to expand...


Not you Gary, you know as well as me there are plenty on here who think they know more than they do and repeatedly give bad advice.......
 
Wise words there Andy.

Sunday league football is definitely the place to go. And it can be miserable so give that a few years before deciding what you want. Top league football is not as glamorous as you think.

Have a look on this link here:

http://www.thefa.com/GetIntoFootball/FindAClub

Then contact a club.

My next advice is to spend some time reading this forum. There is a wealth of advice in here on sports photography. Take it in, digest it, learn.
 
Excellent write up Andy. Shows how useful this forum is for all.

I suspect that the OP was talking about a 7D rather than a D7. If he loves his hobby and has the money then he should look to get a 70-200 F2.8 non IS second hand.

Sure I would love to see my photos in the papers and get paid for it. HOWEVER I also have no desire to
Rovers_Andy said:
be sat at Castleford on a friday night in -5 when its ****ing down
Click to expand...
.

Shoot the local leagues & post some images in the photo sharing section. The chaps here will help you improve with tips and advice on how to improve your images.

If you then feel that you want to move up to following a pro career then great. Anyone can do it IF they have the skill and determination.

However IF you suffer from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) as I and others on here do, (Thanks to Tobers for explaining GAS in an earlier post) & want to earn some extra cash to help pay for all the gear then there are other avenues open to you.

For example people like http://www.dephoto.biz/ & other event companies are always looking for photographers. You can earn money and it's guaranteed. i.e. you work so many hours and you get £x/hour. That is so much better IMO for a lot of people than trying to get to The Emirates.

I wish you good luck in whatever path you follow. Just go back and read Rovers_Andy post a few more times. Then get shooting and posting in the sharing section.
 
Wow.

I really expected to come on and either find some keyboard warriors pasting me down saying how can i even be thinking about licenses and shooting league football when i havnt even got a camera. or no replys whatsoever.

Andy that post is indeed some home truths, and well written, helpfull and exactly what i was after.

As someone said in a previous post i did mean a 7d sorry.

I know it is hard to speculate at the moment and the last thing i wanted to do with 1 postcount was come on and say that i wanna be a pro sports photographer and it be my main job. HOWEVER in the long term, if i do enjoy it, can pick my talent back up again then that would be the end game.

I suspect that the OP was talking about a 7D rather than a D7. If he loves his hobby and has the money then he should look to get a 70-200 F2.8 non IS second hand.
Click to expand...

This was exactly what i was planning on doing, ive been scouring ebay and watching all the lenses and the 7ds to get a good guide on the kind of price they go for, also cheaking all the tog forums.

Im by no means in a hurry and wont be rushing into anything, (unfortunately) im one of those people who will spend weeks researching into anything to find the most suited/best priced things (much to my girlfriends dislike! who is an impulse buyer) who cant understand why it takes us months to get anything :D

I couldnt be better situated really for starting out with this, living in st helens in the middle of the north west were surrounded by football clubs and there are matches going on all around.
Its certenaly nothing to do with it seeming glamorous to me, its been mroe of an epiphany moment driving home from my mind numbing job at 2am when i thought i should really pack in wasting all my time paying computer games etc and use that time to be doing something that can benefit me in the long run.

Photography is something ive always enjoyed and had a passion for as has image manipulation and graphics using photoshop and of course they go well together.
Hopefully in the next few weeks ill have the camera and be able to post up some first pics!!

So from my research is the 7d something that will serve me well? suited to sports photography? something within my <£800 for body.

Ive been having a look obveously at the d300 aswel, which is a lot cheaper on price and from what i have read is all but the same, but the nikon fit sigma lenses are a little more expensive?

Im by no means wanting to get the latest camera, dont rly care what its like or if its got a stigma attatched to it, im far from a fanboy and would hate to waste my money because ive been reading misleading info or people havnt been reccomending things because they wouldnt use it?

Soo if im wayy off with camera selection please let me know or if you ahve any other suggestions or any more advice then please let me know!
I can honestly say i havnt even looked into any other manufacturers (naieve??) maybe im wrong.

thanks for all the advice so far and ill get reading on the rest of the foum and see what else i can digest :D!

Tom
 
Welcome to the forum :) Some sound advice already posted so nothing really to add there..

Regarding kit..a 7D will do the job fine, but id look at either a 1dMk2/3 if you can stretch to it. Shooting football you also ideally want a fast 2.8 lens do to weather/light in the winter, so like already mentioned a secondhand 70-200 2.8L is a good buy..i use this lens and it does the job...but....

Its still alot of money for kit though and a big outlay, so maybe start with something abit cheaper? and try and shoot your local games that wont be played in the evening, as you wont need as quicker lens, or a body with amazing high ISO performance. So then if after doing that for a while and you know you want to persue it, then think about upgrading? Afterall you could hate it, and you would of just shelled out other a thousand pounds on gear that you then wont be using.. Well thats my opinion anyway!

Ive not long started out shooting sport also..ive written about it a little on my blog so you may find some info useful to you in there :)

R
 
Last edited:
Good for you. I propose the following plan...

First you need ambition and a relentless desire to pursue that ambition. Never give up - many people want to do top flight sports photography so you must have more desire than they do, be more inventive than they are.

Secondly, you need to ruthlessly but politely exploit every possible opportunity that you find for yourself. Nobody will drop these opportunities in your lap. It is up to you to go and find them.

Thirdly, you need to practice more than you imagine, edit like a mad thing to filter out everything but your absolute best stuff. You can practice at any sport, and you will need to demonstrate the ability to make a significant picture from any sporting event. Build up a portfolio of your very very best, and print these shots out large, in a nice folder, ready to show to anyone. Make it varied with plenty of sports, plenty of different styles and approaches. I'll bet there is a lot more sport going on around you than you can imagine. Use that opportunity.

Fourthly, invest in the best kit you can afford. It does make a difference.

Fifth, be calm, quiet, professional, nice to everyone you meet and never annoy anyone.

Opportunities are out there waiting for you, but they are few and far between and there will be a long queue for each of them.
 
Last edited:
Nothing to add but heed & follow Tobers & Andy's(the other)'s advice by
mixing em up & you won't go far wrong!!. Kind regards Graham.
PS A very thick skin helps too.
 
Why not give St Helens FC a go?
http://www.clubwebsite.co.uk/sthelens/27928/Contact
They're in the NW Counties (Saturday football – step 5 and 6 of non-league),

As are Wigan Robin Park, AFC Liverpool, Ashton Athletic, Runcorn Linnets, Bootle, Runcorn Town.

In the Evostik First are Prescot Cables, Warrington Town, Skem, Burscough (they play at Skem).

Evostik Prem is where Marine are (step 3).
 
Good for you. I propose the following plan...

First you need ambition and a relentless desire to pursue that ambition. Never give up - many people want to do top flight sports photography so you must have more desire than they do, be more inventive than they are.

Secondly, you need to ruthlessly but politely exploit every possible opportunity that you find for yourself. Nobody will drop these opportunities in your lap. It is up to you to go and find them.

Thirdly, you need to practice more than you imagine, edit like a mad thing to filter out everything but your absolute best stuff. You can practice at any sport, and you will need to demonstrate the ability to make a significant picture from any sporting event. Build up a portfolio of your very very best, and print these shots out large, in a nice folder, ready to show to anyone. Make it varied with plenty of sports, plenty of different styles and approaches. I'll bet there is a lot more sport going on around you than you can imagine. Use that opportunity.

Fourthly, invest in the best kit you can afford. It does make a difference.

Fifth, be calm, quiet, professional, nice to everyone you meet and never annoy anyone.

Opportunities are out there waiting for you, but they are few and far between and there will be a long queue for each of them.
Click to expand...

This made me want it 10x more!

So with all of this still being at stage 1.......

Ive been doing a LOT of reading as you can imagine, i kind of had my eyes set on maybe a 7D.

On some topics ive discovered tonite, i think it may be a little much for me especially to start out with and my money may be better spend on a proper canon 70-200 2.8 rather than a sigma/tamron and i will see a better quality/£spent ratio if i buy better glass and get a cheaper body?

What are everyones views on this?

I guess if i take a price cut on the body ill be abel to buy the sexy canon 70-200mm 2.8 non IS a lot quicker.

So ive refocused my search into 1 of 3 catagories?

1D mark II
5D
50D

So has anyone had much experience with shooting sports with any of these and/or could see any issues i may come across with any of the above?
ie af speeds etc?

I understand that the 5dmk1 will have to be used with the old style lenses but is this a huge problem and will it be of huge detriment?

There all around the same kind of price bracket second hand and from what ive learned in the past 24 hours i think my money would be better spent on a better lens (ie canon non sigma) than a better body?

If im way off the mark then let me know please im just probing for some more info out of everyone :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you wanted a cheaper body I'd go for the 1DIIn for the weather sealing and better AF.

You will struggle a bit in low light conditions but still a better option I reckon.

I'm sure the other guys will be along later.
 
If you could give us your total budget I'm sure we can figure something out for you.

As a starter, I suggest you go for second hand kit. You can pick up a 1DIII for about £1000 and a 70-200 f4 for £400. That's some very nice kit for £1400 which will get you moving very well indeed.

You can later sell the 70-200 f4 for what you paid for it, and pick up a 2.8 version when you have a bit of cash. As we're out of winter (sort of!) now you should be able to get away with f4 rather than 2.8.

A really good used gear shop is Aperture Photographic in London.
 
You could also get hold of a 1.4x converter which would give you a very nice 280mm. They are about £200 used.
 
5d is full frame and the slowest frame rate so not ideal for sports. I have a 50d which is adequate but I wasn't shooting sport when I bought it. I don't think it's the best choice. If I was to spend money it would be on a 2nd hand 1ds or a new 7d
 
Photodiva said:
If I was to spend money it would be on a 2nd hand 1ds or a new 7d
Click to expand...

absoloutly 100% positively no to a 1ds .. I am guessing you meant somehting different but the OP wont know that.. it does need pointing out a 1ds is rubbish for sport :)
 
I started out shooting ice hockey with a 1D MK2 and an old 70-200mm f2.8 for the low light in the arenas. My first decision was to submit images for crit in the ice hockey thread on here and took on board as many of the comments as I could, and the improvement was surprising.

I always fancied shooting sport so decided to try shooting Scottish Juniors football (semi-pro, confernence level) at the end of last year and got talking to the photographers who were keen to help me with advice (not all of them though :lol:). From there I signed up with a small agency and it's been onwards and upwards since. I now shoot Scottish Premier League with a Sigma 120-300mm lens, and when I started I was daunted by the other guys and the 400mm f2.8's they carry around. However, once I found the Sigma's limitations I was fine I simply work around them and it isn't an issue any more, and it is a "little" cracker of a lens.

Last week I had a cracking three days shooting the Aberdeen Assets Scottish Ladies Open Golf (part of the European Tour). In July I'm down to do some football at the Olympics - who would have thought that only 5 months ago I was shooting Petershill FC? It's a case of being in the right place at the right time, and having the cahoonas to ask for a chance - you'll get knocked back - just dust yourself down and try again.

Bit of a ramble, so my advice would be to go for it if that is what you want to do, expect knocks, don't take critique to heart - listen to folk (but take some advice with a pinch of salt), and stay positive. Hope it all goes well.
 
KIPAX said:
absoloutly 100% positively no to a 1ds .. I am guessing you meant somehting different but the OP wont know that.. it does need pointing out a 1ds is rubbish for sport :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. I think I meant a 1DIII but I was on my iphone and messed up!
 
Last edited:
meatcandy89 said:
I guess if i take a price cut on the body ill be abel to buy the sexy canon 70-200mm 2.8 non IS a lot quicker.

So ive refocused my search into 1 of 3 catagories?

1D mark II
5D
50D

So has anyone had much experience with shooting sports with any of these and/or could see any issues i may come across with any of the above?
ie af speeds etc?
Click to expand...

Definitely not a 5D like already mentioned. I use a 70-200 2.8 Non-Is on my 1Dmk2 for football, and it still does the job. High ISO performance isnt the best but its more than useable. So thats what id choose!
 
Whilst no expert, I shot both a 7D and. 1d mk 2 last season. In the end I gave up on the 7d during the winter as by 3 o'clock the low light was having a negative impact on the images even with a 70-200mm f2.8 lens. I also had problems with the frame rate of the 7d in low light and found that I could get very little under floodlights in non league games.
having swapped it all for a Nikon D3 I am much happier.

With a slightly alternative view, whilst I accept all the arguments regarding ensuring photographers get paid, there can be an issue with if you have an involvement
with a team and want to increase their levels of publicity. Some of the photos I take are at grounds where photographers never go. If I didn't take them the club would get no publicity so you get caught between wanting to help the club and getting some cash. Interesting dilemma.
 
Last edited:
I bought a 7d last year and I think it's a great camera. Admittedly I haven't used the 1d mk 3, but I doubt you'll be disappointed with it.

I also used a 70-200 f/4 with it until January, and it served me really well. I have since switched to the sigma 120-300 2.8 which is of course an improvement in that it's longer and is quicker.

The biggest improvement for me though was buying the 7d. Without being able to go to 12,800 iso I wouldn't have made it through the winter. However the 60d has exactly the same sensor and is a bit cheaper so might allow you more to spend on a 2.8. Might be worth thinking about.

Good luck though...and make sure you save some money for some warm clothes! You'll need them! :)
 
cornishboy said:
With a slightly alternative view, whilst I accept all the arguments regarding ensuring photographers get paid, there can be an issue with if you have an involvement with a team and want to increase their levels of publicity
Click to expand...

not an alternative point of view at all and has been discussed on here many times... I dont think anyone has a problem wiht it.. in fact quite acceptable..
 
KIPAX said:
not an alternative point of view at all and has been discussed on here many times... I dont think anyone has a problem wiht it.. in fact quite acceptable..
Click to expand...

I still help out local amateur clubs, its where i got my grounding, so we still scratch each others backs so to speak.
 
From what i can deduce the lenses for nikon are quite a bit more expensive? is this generally true or am i just looking in the wrong places?

If they are the same then the nikon d300 seems to be my best bang for bucks? on par with the 7d but about 2/3 of the price?

thanks for all the points of view, there are so many different options and from everyones diffferent points of view there is no right or wrong answer just different choices.
 
ive also seen this,

Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 APO HSM + hood Missing tripod collar Exc £320 looks like a bit of a bargain?

It hasnt got the OS but from what i understand once you pop it on a monopod then you turn it off anyway?

I feel like ive massivly overlooked something with this lens? if not then i could pick up the nikon d300 and this for under 1k? and this would give me something to start with for a great price?
 
At that focal length I wouldn't be bothered about any kind of image stabilisation anyway (considering you'll probably be shooting between 1/320 and 1/800 second) even if you're shooting hand-held &#8211; which the vast majority of people do with 70-200 anyway. It's not a heavy lens if you're sat down.

Can't account for the image quality of the lens itself though.
 
Last edited:
meatcandy89 said:
ive also seen this,

Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 APO HSM + hood Missing tripod collar Exc £320 looks like a bit of a bargain?

It hasnt got the OS but from what i understand once you pop it on a monopod then you turn it off anyway?

I feel like ive massivly overlooked something with this lens? if not then i could pick up the nikon d300 and this for under 1k? and this would give me something to start with for a great price?
Click to expand...
That would certainally get you going with a half decent kit, the Sigma is a very good lens and the D300 is pretty decent at sports stuff but images are quite noisy over ISO 800

I started out with a Sigma 70-200mm and a Canon 10d which is nowhere near as good as the D300
 
I picked up an older Nikon f2.8 80-200 for about the same price. I would be interested in what would be suggested as the next lens for me on a limited budget with football as my main interest. Is it worth going to 300mm or getting a teleconverter?
 
im still trying to get my hear around all of the lenses and stuff, i cant understand why that lens is like £400 cheaper than some of the others? is it because its older/second hand/not nikor?

I think this may be the option i go for, as pound for pound it seems like the best camera for the price? as long as i can find some lenses that are around the same price as the canon lenses.

After all i guess this is a springboard camera and if i do enjoy it and find myself doing more and more i can sell it + the lens for little to no price depreciation?

So! exiting times, and the plus point being that ive found both of them on the london second ahnd website posted above!! which means i can buy with credit card! which means 0%! which mmmmeeeaaaannssssssssssss i can get it almost straight away!

Got the ok from the missus now just gotta take the plunge and do it!!

and maybe invest in a good set of waterproofs and thermals to go with it!!!!!

:D

Think i may also get a shorter focal length lens to play around with when im not shooting fooseball.

thanks to everyone for posting up on the topic so far with all of the advice, ill keep you posted, and no doubt ill change my mind another 5 times before i end up making the purchase :P
 
Go go go! Splurge on that gear. Aperture give a guarantee on used kit too.

Oh, and the reason the Sigma kit is cheaper is that, by and large, the Nikon and Canon kit is better. However, I had a Sigma 100-300 f4 as a starter sports lens and it was just superb. Very impressive indeed.

As you get more experienced you will be able to tell the difference in image quality, but in the meantime you will be fine with the Sigma. Good luck!
 
cornishboy said:
I picked up an older Nikon f2.8 80-200 for about the same price. I would be interested in what would be suggested as the next lens for me on a limited budget with football as my main interest. Is it worth going to 300mm or getting a teleconverter?
Click to expand...
Go for an older NON OS Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 i upgraded to that from my Sigma 70-200mm, theres a mate of mine on here who earned his living using that very lens until he recently upograded to the Nikon 300mm prime, he work was among the very best you will see and because he is such a good seasoned photographer i bet without knowing you would never tell he used a Sigma.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Go for an older NON OS Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 i upgraded to that from my Sigma 70-200mm, theres a mate of mine on here who earned his living using that very lens until he recently upograded to the Nikon 300mm prime, he work was among the very best you will see and because he is such a good seasoned photographer i bet without knowing you would never tell he used a Sigma.
Click to expand...

If thats about me Im using it for a testimonial on my site (And shall post your payment 1st thing Monday) :thumbs:
 
asterix said:
If thats about me Im using it for a testimonial on my site (And shall post your payment 1st thing Monday) :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thought you sold it a couple of weeks ago mate, looks like you got a buyer here if needed but dont forget my commission.:lol:
 
I did mate, sorry to see it go tbh, I meant im using your kind words on my site
 
haha ill see that in quotes in the not too distant future :P

Anyone used sites and had good experiences with second hand kit?

I cant/wont be able to view the classifieds here for a while, someone linked me to the london camera exchange website? any others i should know about?

defo gonna splurge the gear before i change my mind again.

Ideally want to buy it from a shop selling 2nd hand kit rather than private sale so i can use the plastic to take the hit with 0% on purchases :D

and that way the missus never has to know how much it really cost :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top