Football Photography advice needed

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Siberdib

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Richard
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Hi all,

I have been photographing a lot of football recently through leisure and I feel I have really grown into this area because of my passion for football. I have been taken on in a voluntary capacity (I know people will sigh) because of my age and experience by a football league club to photography matches etc. when the chief photographer can't be present (anything below the first team). These will be used for commercial purposes and maybe available to fans etc. The majority of my photos will be the normal Saturday as well as weekdays under poor floodlighting of a non league ground.

The advice I need is:
- will I get by using my trusted Nikon 80-200mm f2.8?
- do I need any personal insurance/liability?
- do I need my own personal license from the football league or DataCo?
- if I end up getting paid for work will I have to register myself as self-employed?

Any other advice will be great. I am very much on a trial basis for the rest of this season, started fully next.
 
Q: will I get by using my trusted Nikon 80-200mm f2.8? A: Yes, it'll be fine
Q: do I need any personal insurance/liability? A: You will probably be covered by the clubs but check, if not get your own.
Q: do I need my own personal license from the football league or DataCo? A: I doubt it
Q: if I end up getting paid for work will I have to register myself as self-employed? A: Shhhh, i wont say owt if you dont.
 
Thanks for that. The only thing I am worried about is the 80-200 and it's reach. I'd assume my D700 (although not made for sport) would be more than suitable.
 
Youre a little limited for reach with it being full frame so i would suggest behind the goal line midway towards the corner post to capture goal mouth action and celebrations etc, etc.

You could add a 1.4x teleconvertor for 98-280mm and think about adding the grip to increase the fps
 
You can enable the crop mode by use of the FN button - see page 61-62 in the D700 manual on how to do so
 
80-200 will be fine, your already producing good results with it ;)

I would get PL for sure, better to have and not need than need and not have.

Personal license, hmmm it depends on what you want to do, is there any outlet for the Colchester United youth team outside of the club.

Even if there is you would need to get a conference license first, then apply for a league license. You'll still be in the same situation as now though, you won't be able to display the images (except through the club)

Self Employed. I would say yes, why risk undeclared income?
 
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Thanks for all the quick advice people. I have now registered myself as self-employed and in the process of sorting out public liability. I also had my first photo published this weekend. Although there is tough competition in this industry, it appears to be a little light around my area (I hope so), so I'm going to give it a real good go.

Link to photo: http://www.**-fc.com/page/News/0,,10424~2310620,00.html?

Replace the * with 'c u' - doesn't seem to like it?!
 
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Siberdib said:
- do I need my own personal license from the football league or DataCo?
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Try gently asking the Press Office of the club if they can provide you with FL Accreditation - the same that the Club's photographer has. If they decline, then you know where you stand!
 
GLP said:
Try gently asking the Press Office of the club if they can provide you with FL Accreditation - the same that the Club's photographer has. If they decline, then you know where you stand!
Click to expand...

With regards to this, can you be provided with FL accreditation without the 10/15 paid photo requirement? Or is this something else?
 
Siberdib said:
With regards to this, can you be provided with FL accreditation without the 10/15 paid photo requirement? Or is this something else?
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Not as an individual, the only way you could get Accreditation is through another license holder (club, paper etc)
 
With the accreditation, what benefit does it give myself? Are you solely limited to the one club/paper who have accredited you, or can you use it further?
 
Added to this, I'm looking to get in contact with my local regional paper(s). They cover the events that I photograph but never have a photography present. I'm sure if I contacted them they would be interested. How would I go about this? Mainly in regards to monies - do I set a price or do they have a standard price set?
 
Siberdib said:
With the accreditation, what benefit does it give myself? Are you solely limited to the one club/paper who have accredited you, or can you use it further?
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Limited to the one license holder as you are using their license, you can only use accreditation under their license with their approval
 
I have been contacted by my local newspaper who are requesting to use some of my photos. Now my dilemma is, I provide the photos to my football league club currently on a voluntary basis (reason stated above) but the newspaper are requesting to have the photos for free based on my current status with my club.

Where do I stand on this? Should I charge the newspaper for use? Or have I got to except my current arrangement?
 
Are they your pictures to decide? read the thread and still cant see what team your shooting... Are you shooting under a licence.. If yes is it your licence?

Are you shooting under someone elses licence (confernce or league)?
If so they are not your pictures to give or sell the paper

Are you shooting a league that doesn't require a licence ?
If so then they are your pictures and you should get paid

Are you shooting under your own licence ?
If so then they are your pictures and you should get paid

Bit more info needed of who your are shooting and who gets the accreditation and if a licence req
 
its the old catch 22 situation to get a dataco license you need to have had published and paid for 15 pix in local papers [for a prem lcense 30 in dailys or sundays] in the previous year and you need to have accessed the ground with out the aid of your local papers applying for the pass on your behalf eg pix from colchester utd would not count as you have got into the ground via sombody eles's license. you will need 2m pl insurance [5 m for the prem]
best advice i can give is get a conferance license then check out your highest placed non-league team and approach the away teams local paper etc etc
do not let people have your stuff for free you are cutting your own throat.
i can be done as kippax has shown but it is very very hard and once you have it you have to keep getting the sales to re apply each year.
 
Just read the OP again and saw this

. I have been taken on in a voluntary capacity (I know people will sigh) because of my age and experience by a football league club to photography matches etc.
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If this is a football league club then you are shooting under the clubs licence.. the only people you can give the pictures to are the club.. your not allowed to give or sell to the newspapers.. you supply the club and they can suply the papers... or to save time they can instruct you to supply the papers... If theres money involved only the club can get paid..if they then want to pay you then great..

But you should consider this.. if its a FL club and the paper get the pictures for free.. every pro football photogrpaher on TP and in the country who finds out will put you on there hate list.. seriosuly :)


Dont shoot the messenger.. just saying how it is :)
 
blue marlin said:
once you have it you have to keep getting the sales to re apply each year.
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It should be easier to renew once you ahve it.. As you say its hard work getting 15 non league published (not cheap or free) in national or regional papers.. But when you ahve the licence then your not limited to non league pictures so it does become easier.. I got my league licence part way through this season and I already ahve enough (well over 30) for my premiership licence next season :)
 
agree but its down to catchment areas not many pro teams in essex and very close to london its not like in your case 8 /9 teams minimum with in a 1/2 drive.
 
Thanks for the response guys. Just to clear it up - I'm currently working under the license of Colchester United. I provide them with the photos and they distribute as necessary. However, they are happy for myself to supply them to my local newspaper and to the opposition. I'm not photographing the first team, instead the youth team and reserve team who in the 15 years I have supported the club have never had a photographer for either. I saw the opportunity and took it. The photos are sold through the clubs on-line gallery and I get a small percentage.

My main confusion had come with the newspaper contacting me. The club are happy for me to communicate and supply, but my query was on how I stand. The newspaper themselves have never had photographs from the matches I attend - so again it was an opportunity I took. I'm not taking any work from anyone else, I will be the only photographer there, instead it is more that both parties are happy that somebody is happy to take the photographs in their own time. If somebody came in and offered to take the photos for a fee, both parties would be happy to have no photos.

I'm only 22 years old and its great to have such exposure early on. However, I don't want to get into a partnership that hinders myself to progress into making any money or cause a bad name.
 
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blue marlin said:
agree but its down to catchment areas not many pro teams in essex and very close to london its not like in your case 8 /9 teams minimum with in a 1/2 drive.
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To get the licence in the first place you need to travel out.. all over the country in fact. losing money.. . but agreed.. once got its not viable to be losing money
 
Siberdib said:
Thanks for the response guys. Just to clear it up - I'm currently working under the license of Colchester United.
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So thats that cleared up.. you dont own the pictures the club does.


Siberdib said:
I provide them with the photos and they distribute as necessary. However, they are happy for myself to supply them to my local newspaper and to the opposition.
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Thats how a lot of people work.. esp fans of teams.. but so far your doing the norm and not getting paid which again is the norm at that level..

Siberdib said:
I'm not photographing the first team, instead the youth team and reserve team who in the 15 years I have supported the club have never had a photographer for either. I saw the opportunity and took it. The photos are sold through the clubs on-line gallery and I get a small percentage.
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Haa right.. well both still come under the same licence but not as much interest apart from parents and players i guess:)

Siberdib said:
My main confusion had come with the newspaper contacting me.
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The important bit here is they contacted you.. emaning they want the pictures... If you give them for free then they have them.. if you dont then they pay or they pay someone else to get them... they obviously want them


Siberdib said:
The club are happy for me to communicate and supply, but my query was on how I stand. The newspaper themselves have never had photographs from the matches I attend - so again it was an opportunity I took. I'm not taking any work from anyone else,
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Sorry but thats an age old argument.. if the paper want the pictures they either get free from you or pay someone.. thus your taking work away from the person they would pay..

Siberdib said:
looks like I have to supply the ...................
Click to expand...


I said your not allowed to supply them to anyone but the club.. if the club want to cut out the middleman and instruct you to give them the paper then thats the club giving them away not you.


Siberdib said:
At the moment I'm happy to do this as I'm only 22 years old and its great to have such exposure early on. However, I don't want to get into a partnership that hinders myself to progress into making any money or cause a bad name.
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First of all what on earth has age got to do with it? Secondly..and most importantly...giving picture free to newspapers will get you a bad name.. doesnt matter what the circumstances are.. believe me I know :)


Given your situation and the club are happy for you to do what you like with the pics.. I would supply the paper and ask them for a small fee to at least cover your costs.. nobody will shoot you for asking :)
 
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That's super Kipax!! That has cleared up a lot of confusion that I had.

With regards to be 22 years old, I need some work experience. Having graduated from University and been struck of work for the past two year medically, anything to help me get back into gaining any work experience is crucial for me. I'm doing something I love and getting enjoyment out of it. Being 22, I'm only starting out and with the times being as they are, anything to get my name out and about is only going to be good for myself.

What I plan to do is contact the club, let them communicate with the newspaper and see where this leads me. Although they are happy for me to supply the newspaper, in the long run the club doing the communicating could work out better for all sides.

Will certainty remove your name from the previous post. Sorry for my confusion.
 
Richard your in pretty much the same position I was.. if you ahve a club thats happy to let you do what ya like even though they own the pics then thats great.. exactly what my club did wiht me.. instead of paying me they agve me freedom witht he pics.. but they where non league at the time:)

At the end of the day your life your pics.. myself and others can only relay the experiences we have had or what we know... dont ever make a decision based on what forum mebers would like you to do :) just read and decide for yourself :)

good luck with it.. you seem to be on the right track for sure.. get some first team games done :)
 
Thanks a lot Kipax - invaluable advise!!!

As with everything you start-up, this is a little scary for me as well as very exciting - starting out as only shooting my family and quickly lead to shooting for a client.

I want to make sure I make the right decisions from the off and give myself the best chance to succeed. My plan is to run this little sports photography job at weekends, and have a normal 9-5 job during the week. I know the market is over saturated at present, but there is nothing stopping me in having a real good go at achieving something.
 
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