Football Photographer

Tobers said:
Is that the installment that says "now you've learned all this stuff and put it into practice, you realise that you're not making any money and it's cold and raining, but bloody good fun anyway"?
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Yeah, that was the one...build people up with the first two parts, and crush their spirits with the third.

I'm still debating whether or not to bother, as there's guys on here (you, Graham and Tony) who have done very well for themselves through completely different ways to me...I'm not sure if I can write a catch-all guide to "getting a job/making money from sports photography". :eek:
 
jamesb84 said:
Yeah, that was the one...build people up with the first two parts, and crush their spirits with the third.

I'm still debating whether or not to bother, as there's guys on here (you, Graham and Tony) who have done very well for themselves through completely different ways to me...I'm not sure if I can write a catch-all guide to "getting a job/making money from sports photography". :eek:
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Cmon James pull your finger out fella, Ive been waiting 4 weeks now for the third and final installment....:lol::lol:
 
Chris keep your cash.very risky,huge amount of Sport guys out there, you'd be looking at 5-8£ks of lens alone,then 2 body's etc etc
why don't you rent a bit of kit first,see how you go, You've got to be able to get the "killer shots".ive done a bit of equestrian, you've got to have the horses legs right, the ears right,the rider right,takes a few years to bag the sellers
 
jamesb84 said:
I'm still debating whether or not to bother, as there's guys on here (you, Graham and Tony) who have done very well for themselves through completely different ways to me.
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Still interested to hear your own story though.
 
there isnt a catch all for everything though is there.. i dont agree with a few things in your tutorials and presumably because you can only talk about what you ahve experienced personally..
 
Throwing my own views into the basket as well - although it isn't football relates. But as the thread has moved towards Sports Photography in general.

I am coming from a different angle, as I started my 'photography career' while living abroad - and still work mainly for foreign media.

One huge obstacle that British freelance photographers face is the amount of 'red tape' and regulations and accrediting bodies. So starting out is probably the most difficult thing (IMHO) in the UK.
Another fact that makes things a little more difficult is the small amount of sports that the National newspapers cover. Which I have learned due to the fact that I cover mainly sports that are considered minority sports in UK.
Where I started my photography, I knew that any sport sells and there is demand for the images (be it swamp football league, finnish baseball, floorball, womens footy) in the papers all the way to the National papers.
Also - Finland isn't a country that is over populated with the 'big boys' (getty, ap, etc..) So a small fish has plenty to pick in the sea of sports over there..

And one thing that also matters : Who you know.
Pictures aren't everything, I have seen hobbyist togs who take great pics. And give them away for free.... because they like the sport. I have seen professional togs taking average/crap images and selling them for £100's.. because they know the right people and have the contacts.

Coming back to UK, I thought swap over and cover lots of UK sports for the papers here.. but that didn't quite work out. Suppose West Midlands is rather well populated with 'togs' as well..

So, my work these days is 80% abroad.

This includes sitting plenty in air planes, airports and various kind of transport. Also seeking out the best deals on hotels, etc.. to maximise the profit from each job.

To give you an example of my week...(next week)

Monday : editing weekends photos
Tuesday : conducting interviews with players (via SkyPe)
Wednesday : fly to Pisa - drive to Rome. Game on at 8pm
Thursday : After the game finishes and editing is done - drive back to Pisa (that's about 200 miles/each way). Then fly to Barcelona, where I have another game at 8pm.
Friday : Early morning flight back to Brum - then off to Sheffield for a game at 7pm.
Saturday : Drive to Worcester for a game at 5pm (after enjoying Villa - Chelsea .. as a fan)
Sunday : Wheelchair basketball in the morning and Ice Hockey in the afternoon.

On top of this I try to keep up constantly writing game reports, interviews..editing game videos..

Now - what will I have left in the pocket after all that ??
A week like that should bring me around £400-500 (after travels) - and there is always a chance to make some sales at the games. Which can increase the income considerably (I think the best increase was £3000 on top of that.. but that really was ONE off due to capturing a Killer Image.. more luck that skill).

Most people go 'WHOOOO' when they see the travel and money.. but it isn't all fun and games.
First of all, you spend a lot of time away from the wife, you don't see your home too much, you have to live on fast food/restaurant grub, constantly wondering if your gear gets in as hand luggage, rushing to get the emergency exit row seat with Ryanair, sometimes you get to stay in a nice hotel, sometimes a crappy hotel, sometimes you sleep at the airport and don't even get me started on the unreliability of Wi-Fi in certain countries (don't like Italy)...
So there are easier ways to make money..

As with any job, you got to enjoy what you are doing. And for me, at the moment it is working out.. but doing as Freelance, I do need to find my own clients week-in / week-out.. so you are never sure on the income from week/month to next.

Do i like what I am doing? Yes. Is it for everyone? No.

Just a little post from me... not sure if it makes it any clearer to you whether you should give it a go or not...
 
GooGaBu said:
As with any job, you got to enjoy what you are doing. And for me, at the moment it is working out.. but doing as Freelance, I do need to find my own clients week-in / week-out.. so you are never sure on the income from week/month to next.

Do i like what I am doing? Yes. Is it for everyone? No.
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That bits exact same for me mate...always looking for work, always loking for ways to amke money from photogrpahing sport. alway buying papers and contacting people to see whats going on. I ahve to work harder looking for work than doing it :)
 
KIPAX said:
there isnt a catch all for everything though is there.. i dont agree with a few things in your tutorials and presumably because you can only talk about what you ahve experienced personally..
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Exactly that mate...I've never really tried to go out myself and sell. It sounds massively lazy but I prefer to just take a picture and send it off to someone else to sell. Yet, that's exactly what you're doing...its the bit about securing commissions and deals that I can't do, I'm just not as good as others. My architecture and magazine work comes through from long-standing contacts. I could write quite easily about how I got started with those, but it would be just that...

How I got started. Not necessarily how anyone else could or should get started.

I think what's far better is for everyone else to say "this is how I got started, it might not be for you, but this is what I did"...rather than write a third tutorial.
 
jamesb84 said:
I think what's far better is for everyone else to say "this is how I got started, it might not be for you, but this is what I did"...rather than write a third tutorial.
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I think that is about right as everyone has his/her own story. We each have own own "primary" sports which proberbly provides us with our biggest chunk of income. Not only do we work hard at trying to achieve the money shot but just as hard (if not harder) looking for other avenues to sell through.
 
Funny this thread should come up. By a strange coincidence I've just been given the opportunity to go shoot some Peterborough Utd matches.

I know I can do a decent job - I've shot football before including one fa cup match. And I've certainly got the camera. It's just I don't have a 300mm lens. My longest is the 70-200 and, as a people photographer that's as long as I've needed. Occasionally I'm known to shoot birds but for that I stick any of the 3 nikon TC's on and away I go.

So now I'm wondering if I should get a 300mm 2.8 or stick with the 70-200 + 1.4 tc giving me 280mm F4 :thinking:

I'm not doing it for money (just to tag along with the club pro) so I suppose my kit will do the job.....
 
Hmmmm, i would stick with the 70-200 on its own.

I thought you had a 200 f/2 Ryan, could you not stick one of the TC's on there?
 
I did mate but sold it in a moment of madness after buying the 70-200 VR II. I am actually thinking of buying another 200 2 as that will serve me batter in general. And I can stick a 1.4tc on it and have 280mm f2.8. Decisions, decisions (as usual)....
 
Because of this

jamesb84 said:
..probably works out to be an annual salary of £30k in "normal" terms :shrug:
QUOTE]

and this

KIPAX said:
a snowey decemeber night covering non league footy with 10 spectators.. so unbelievably cold.. or sat in pouring rain and even then sometime i have thought to myself... why?
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I'd rather be tucked up in bed on a winter's night with the missus :clap:

I'll stick to getting all the advice you guys freely give to help make me a better photographer & if I sell a few over the year to pay for my website and a bit towards new gear then fab.

No idea yet what I'm going to do when I get made redundant next year :thumbsdown:
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jamesb84 said:
Phil, bear in mind that the £30K is pre-tax and NI (which is high) and pre-pension (which I set up in a fit of smart, rational thinking). Plus, I get hammered for student loan every year as it doesn't go out via PAYE...anyway, I'm not giving you all my personal finances!! :naughty:

Also remember that as sport is mainly weekend based, I'm usually working the full 7 days of the week, and a lot of hours in that (probably upwards of 50 hours per week) to earn that amount.

It's doable, but tough.
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That does shed a different light on that 30K James. Still least you're doing something you obviously love. Sometimes that is worth more than the money :thumbs:
 
redmonkee said:
That does shed a different light on that 30K James. Still least you're doing something you obviously love. Sometimes that is worth more than the money :thumbs:
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It does indeed... ;)

Staff job would be a lot easier but is obviously much harder to come by. It's true, I can rationalise the 50+hours a week by knowing it's something I love doing.
 
James - have a couple of kids :nono: and you'll need to double it :lol:
 
bigrob said:
James - have a couple of kids :nono: and you'll need to double it :lol:
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Ah yeah, too right...we're already trying to fathom out how we'd manage to afford that. Especially with the recently announced cuts from Messr's Osborne and Cameron.
 
I looked into going full time last year when there was a chance of voluntary redundancy with a reasonable payout. Once I'd worked out how much my mortgage, bills and car would cost each year, I soon decided against it.
 
Well - it's a definate. I'm going to be shooting the Peterborough v Swindon game at London Road on Saturday.

Very excite!!
 
I don't know about sport but for press a lot of the regional agencies and newspapers pay in the region of £12,000 per year!
 
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