Football Photographer

stokecity_m

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Chris
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Which does it take more of to become , say a league1/championship Tog?

Money or time?


For example - you've got a budget for £12 for kit but need to start earning money right away,

Or you've got £2k for kit, but can do it part time with your other job?
 
Ok ,m just read that and it's unclear what i mean.

Say you have just been made redundant with a pay off off £12k,
is it possible to invest that money into equipment and become a Football tog that pays a £250+ weelky wage.

Or is i a case of taking a while to become a football tog?
 
erm you could invest 12k, which would give you 2 MKIII or D3 bodies (2nd hand) along with a 70-200 and a 300 (again 2nd hand) but you would have no guarantee of getting work with an agency covering Championship/League1 and even less chance of making £250 a week (after tax etc) to live off :( maybe you could manage £250 if you were covering lots events like school sports days, amateur sides etc but from talking to guys doing it week in/week out its bloody hard work :(

Sorry to sound so negative but the reality is agency work for "pro" level football and rugby is hard to come by and even harder to live off, you would need to be a jack of all trades or bloody good and bloody lucky


Just my opinion and prepared to be shot down in flames
 
Just my opinion

And a welcomed one it is.

Thanks.

So it's more a case of building towards becoming a football/sports photographer, then it is being able to just buy the equipment and off you go.
 
Yeah pretty much, you could risk investing a huge wedge of cash in the kit but unless you can turn that investment into a return and have a good chance of some income from it......well its very very risky


Hopefully some of the guys i have taken advice from (Kipax, Snappz, Purpleclouds, Jamesb84) etc will weigh in with there views and offer a better more balanced view than mine, as they are living purely from photography :thumbs:

Me, i'm just a "weekend warrior" :suspect: :lol:
 
Defo take a lot of time.

Mate of mine started a part time placement taking photos for Bolton news and whoever the company is that does the photos of BWFC. He didnt get paid for a year not even expenses and he doesnt drive, cost him so much in taxis.

Now hes getting regular work, maybe 5 jobs a week but still only gets paid about £30 per picture published. Slowly getting more and more work though but its taken a lot of patience, something I wish I had more of as hes doing okay now and I still aint making much.
 
I love Andy's name dropping (thats twice in 12 hours for anyone who's counting! :D )...

He is indeed correct.

I started out with sports photography 6 years ago now, nearly to the day. In that time, I've invested a lot of time and money into what first started as a bit of extra cash to stretch the student loan a bit further.

It wasn't particularly good at doing that, there's such fierce competition at the top level, and lower down it's very difficult to get anyone interested (I know Kipax has managed remarkably well with lower league stuff - but it's definitely not easy or for the faint hearted).

For starters, you need to be absolutely 100% confident of being able to get the picture. Not just any old picture, the picture that tells a story. You get good at that, then you might stand a chance of getting some sales or a %-split deal with a small agency.

Sounds great doesn't it?! It's not...I worked for a small agency, and when you're in the mix with everyone else, including the huge agencies, then you have to be very lucky to get a usage...so you've probably driven 100miles round trip and sat in the freezing cold for 90mins to come away with precisely £0.00

Even if you do manage to make a sale, the prices paid by newspapers are pitiful these days...after your 60/40 or 50/50 split, you'll probably see £30 per image. That would require 9 images per week just to make you £270, then factor in all the costs required to be a working tog (petrol, mobile phone contracts, professional body membership, parking costs etc etc) you'd need to be selling at least 12 images a week at your £30 per image.

Having been in the same situation, I can tell you now...that will not happen. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it just wont.

After my attempts to make any money from this, I got so thoroughly fed up that I started approaching bigger agencies for work...the shift fees started out pretty bad. Again, you'd have to do at least 4 games a week to make your desired money...which again, will not happen. You also have to remember that not everyone gets a chance with a bigger agency. You need to have something to offer that no-one else can (ie. you live/work in an area that no-one else covers - such as me in Wales/South West)...you also need to be damn good at getting good photos consistently and quickly (ie. within 3 minutes for a goal, those photos should be on your agency servers). The guys who work for the big guys are the best sports photographers in the world...so competition is again, huge and fierce.

It's taken me 6 years to get to work with an agency that pays me respectable shift fees and expenses and offers me enough jobs that I can survive. I could almost give up doing any other photography work and concentrate solely on sport...if I was a "weekend warrior" like Andy, I could only now think about going full-time. That's after 6 years and a lot of money invested...much more than £12K i'm afraid.

Sorry if this comes off as a crushing blow to you...but it is very tough to survive in the sports world...there's a lot of guys out there who'll happily devalue the industry by working for peanuts, or conversely have so much control of the industry that no-one else can really survive.

All that aside, there are plenty of people on here who have shown that with time, money and a lot of effort and sacrifice you can (eventually) make it.
 
Jezze, sounds like very very hard work. A lot of time effort & money that could result in not a lot of benefit.
 
It's a lot easier to be a war-photographer than a sports-photographer these days...trust me...
The only real difference apart from the money (look at about £250 per image for a good war-shot) is that you run the risk of serious injury or death doing one whereas doing Wars just keeps you away from home a lot.
 
Defo take a lot of time.

Mate of mine started a part time placement taking photos for Bolton news and whoever the company is that does the photos of BWFC. He didnt get paid for a year not even expenses and he doesnt drive, cost him so much in taxis.

Bolton have been using action images for quite a few years now.
 
I love Andy's name dropping (thats twice in 12 hours for anyone who's counting! :D )...

He is indeed correct.

I started out with sports photography 6 years ago now, nearly to the day. In that time, I've invested a lot of time and money into what first started as a bit of extra cash to stretch the student loan a bit further.

It wasn't particularly good at doing that, there's such fierce competition at the top level, and lower down it's very difficult to get anyone interested (I know Kipax has managed remarkably well with lower league stuff - but it's definitely not easy or for the faint hearted).

For starters, you need to be absolutely 100% confident of being able to get the picture. Not just any old picture, the picture that tells a story. You get good at that, then you might stand a chance of getting some sales or a %-split deal with a small agency.

Sounds great doesn't it?! It's not...I worked for a small agency, and when you're in the mix with everyone else, including the huge agencies, then you have to be very lucky to get a usage...so you've probably driven 100miles round trip and sat in the freezing cold for 90mins to come away with precisely £0.00

Even if you do manage to make a sale, the prices paid by newspapers are pitiful these days...after your 60/40 or 50/50 split, you'll probably see £30 per image. That would require 9 images per week just to make you £270, then factor in all the costs required to be a working tog (petrol, mobile phone contracts, professional body membership, parking costs etc etc) you'd need to be selling at least 12 images a week at your £30 per image.

Having been in the same situation, I can tell you now...that will not happen. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it just wont.

After my attempts to make any money from this, I got so thoroughly fed up that I started approaching bigger agencies for work...the shift fees started out pretty bad. Again, you'd have to do at least 4 games a week to make your desired money...which again, will not happen. You also have to remember that not everyone gets a chance with a bigger agency. You need to have something to offer that no-one else can (ie. you live/work in an area that no-one else covers - such as me in Wales/South West)...you also need to be damn good at getting good photos consistently and quickly (ie. within 3 minutes for a goal, those photos should be on your agency servers). The guys who work for the big guys are the best sports photographers in the world...so competition is again, huge and fierce.

It's taken me 6 years to get to work with an agency that pays me respectable shift fees and expenses and offers me enough jobs that I can survive. I could almost give up doing any other photography work and concentrate solely on sport...if I was a "weekend warrior" like Andy, I could only now think about going full-time. That's after 6 years and a lot of money invested...much more than £12K i'm afraid.

Sorry if this comes off as a crushing blow to you...but it is very tough to survive in the sports world...there's a lot of guys out there who'll happily devalue the industry by working for peanuts, or conversely have so much control of the industry that no-one else can really survive.

All that aside, there are plenty of people on here who have shown that with time, money and a lot of effort and sacrifice you can (eventually) make it.


Well said. 12k is not going to scratch the surface, let alone the time and effort and skill (we're not just talking about photographic skill, but also the workflow to get those images out in 3 minutes).

I've been shooting premiership football for two years, and this week I'm covering my first England game! but definately not making 250 a week from that alone.

I was very surprised at the low rates for national press after getting a big double pager in the NOTW last year :(

It's not gonna stop me carrying on though.... onwards and upwards.

A very good comment about agencies as well. I'm with a smallish one, and frequently (read constantly!) see similar shots as my own published all from the bigegr agencies. The press will use them first.

I need to think about banging on those agencies doors, although what I can offer differently to all the others is the challenge!
 
IMHO there is no set answer.. you ask if its time or money. for me it was both. plus a love and dedication for what i am doing.. believe me nothing else gets you through a snowey decemeber night covering non league footy with 10 spectators.. so unvbelievably cold.. or sat in pouring rain and even then sometime i have thought to myself... why?

some (inc peeps on here) got into it a lot quicker than me and all I can say is well done... brilliant.. .. others take years working up to it... agencies will take you on if you have the kit and can show them half a dozen good pics but the money isnt regular.. agencies are on a no lose situation..if they think you ahve a chance of getting a pic they will send you along..

I go local to make a living wiht a few other things tucked in... I work for 2 local papers.. the local sports college and a sports tour company... I look for work all the time and manage to get it.. but not easily...i contact papers.. keep a lookout all the time for sports events happening and try to grab every opportunity.. I stay away from premiership or championship football and am more happy to do a local kids game with guaranteed money..

I ahve to do maybe three games to make what an agency togs can make on one picture in the nationals... BUT my income is guaranteed and regular.. so I prefer my route.. *I had 30 pictures published last week and an agency tog will make as much with 3 published.*


* I get paid per match not per pic :) Also when i did agency work I got over £100 per pic in nationals at a 70/30 in my favour split so am basing my figures on around £100 for an agency tog showing..
 
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I love Andy's name dropping (thats twice in 12 hours for anyone who's counting! :D )...

He is indeed correct.

I started out with sports photography 6 years ago now, nearly to the day. In that time, I've invested a lot of time and money into what first started as a bit of extra cash to stretch the student loan a bit further.

It wasn't particularly good at doing that, there's such fierce competition at the top level, and lower down it's very difficult to get anyone interested (I know Kipax has managed remarkably well with lower league stuff - but it's definitely not easy or for the faint hearted).

For starters, you need to be absolutely 100% confident of being able to get the picture. Not just any old picture, the picture that tells a story. You get good at that, then you might stand a chance of getting some sales or a %-split deal with a small agency.

Sounds great doesn't it?! It's not...I worked for a small agency, and when you're in the mix with everyone else, including the huge agencies, then you have to be very lucky to get a usage...so you've probably driven 100miles round trip and sat in the freezing cold for 90mins to come away with precisely £0.00

Even if you do manage to make a sale, the prices paid by newspapers are pitiful these days...after your 60/40 or 50/50 split, you'll probably see £30 per image. That would require 9 images per week just to make you £270, then factor in all the costs required to be a working tog (petrol, mobile phone contracts, professional body membership, parking costs etc etc) you'd need to be selling at least 12 images a week at your £30 per image.

Having been in the same situation, I can tell you now...that will not happen. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it just wont.

After my attempts to make any money from this, I got so thoroughly fed up that I started approaching bigger agencies for work...the shift fees started out pretty bad. Again, you'd have to do at least 4 games a week to make your desired money...which again, will not happen. You also have to remember that not everyone gets a chance with a bigger agency. You need to have something to offer that no-one else can (ie. you live/work in an area that no-one else covers - such as me in Wales/South West)...you also need to be damn good at getting good photos consistently and quickly (ie. within 3 minutes for a goal, those photos should be on your agency servers). The guys who work for the big guys are the best sports photographers in the world...so competition is again, huge and fierce.

It's taken me 6 years to get to work with an agency that pays me respectable shift fees and expenses and offers me enough jobs that I can survive. I could almost give up doing any other photography work and concentrate solely on sport...if I was a "weekend warrior" like Andy, I could only now think about going full-time. That's after 6 years and a lot of money invested...much more than £12K i'm afraid.

Sorry if this comes off as a crushing blow to you...but it is very tough to survive in the sports world...there's a lot of guys out there who'll happily devalue the industry by working for peanuts, or conversely have so much control of the industry that no-one else can really survive.

All that aside, there are plenty of people on here who have shown that with time, money and a lot of effort and sacrifice you can (eventually) make it.

Good grief James that is an eye opener :gag: I knew the pay wouldn't be great but even I thought it would be better than what you state. Still it hasn't put me off.

I have a full time job in an advertising agency and i figured agency work would be a great weekend job. Plus I just like the thought of going to premiership games and photographing them:thumbs:
 
Good grief James that is an eye opener :gag: I knew the pay wouldn't be great but even I thought it would be better than what you state. Still it hasn't put me off.

I have a full time job in an advertising agency and i figured agency work would be a great weekend job. Plus I just like the thought of going to premiership games and photographing them:thumbs:

Sorry :(

The holy grail is a staff job...where the pay is certainly survivable. As I said in the "jack of all trades" thread, I need to do at least 3 different types of togging to keep my head above.

Between those 3 I am making enough to survive, and live quite nicely...probably works out to be an annual salary of £30k in "normal" terms :shrug:

Though I can't say i've ever actually sat down and worked it out...
 
To be honest i thought this was a joke post at first, still do to be honest.

Well, even if it is...this should be an eye opener for anyone that thinks football photography or sports in general is well-paid... :D
 
The only real difference apart from the money (look at about £250 per image for a good war-shot) is that you run the risk of serious injury or death doing one whereas doing Wars just keeps you away from home a lot.

:D

Excellent!! :clap:
 
One of the only reasons I cover Heineken Cup games is the abundance of free Heineken they give away.

Ever wanted to know how many bottles you can fit in a Peli 1560? :D

With no kit in, i reckon at least 1 case :D
 
Sorry :(

The holy grail is a staff job...where the pay is certainly survivable. As I said in the "jack of all trades" thread, I need to do at least 3 different types of togging to keep my head above.

Between those 3 I am making enough to survive, and live quite nicely...probably works out to be an annual salary of £30k in "normal" terms :shrug:

Though I can't say i've ever actually sat down and worked it out...

Well £30k is good. Sure wish I was on this, im on £18500 for my day job. If I can do Sports to supplement this i'd be happy.
 
That sounds like the start of a a bad joke.... 72?

You at to Newport this weekend, I'm off as a punter!

I'm not...I'm at Cardiff City this weekend so can't make it across. :( Shame, should be a cracker.

I think the highest I've managed was 12 bottles (without the 400mm in the case). If I include as much in the Crumpler rucksack (and stuff my pockets full of the crap that's usually in there) I can come away with 20+ bottles easily, which is a nice supplement to earnings!

Phil, bear in mind that the £30K is pre-tax and NI (which is high) and pre-pension (which I set up in a fit of smart, rational thinking). Plus, I get hammered for student loan every year as it doesn't go out via PAYE...anyway, I'm not giving you all my personal finances!! :naughty:

Also remember that as sport is mainly weekend based, I'm usually working the full 7 days of the week, and a lot of hours in that (probably upwards of 50 hours per week) to earn that amount.

It's doable, but tough.
 
Anyone thinking they can spend money and get into sports photography is dreaming. Ive only just started, and no amount of money can prepare you for such a ruthless industry.
I suggest spend half the money you have on gear, see how you get on and go from there.
 
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One of the only reasons I cover Heineken Cup games is the abundance of free Heineken they give away.

Ever wanted to know how many bottles you can fit in a Peli 1560? :D

I managed to camp in the marshalls field of the British GP once when Fosters sponsored it. Free slabs (24 tinny's) of fosters and a bbq.

Wanna know how many you can fit in an espace and still get out of a field? :D
 
Just to make it clear, I'm not looking to become a football tog. Just always what it's like to get started as one.
 
I'm not going to add much more as it will only enhance the doom and gloom. In my case the football is only part as I have my event work. Spec agency work is hard and can end up costing you if sales dont follow. Looks good when you get some good usages but soon dilutes when you get nothing for next couple of weeks.

Working as freelance for the big agencies is ok if you can get a contract, but you'll need to put the work in via other sources first to get some sort of portfolio, and that is if you can get any work without a portfolio in the first place.

Or you could do what Kipax did and apply for a conference license (I've just done this) and build from there. I know of a few who have done this to obtain a DataCo license but you'll still be working on spec unless you can build some newspaper conections.

This type of work sounds very glamerous but I can assure you its not. Sitting out in all weather, rain, snow or hail trying to keep your equipment dry. Players sliding into you and whatching your brand new laptop go flying! Travelling miles and then finding the game is off! Regulary getting home in the early hours from a night match or stuck on a motorway somewhere. At least James has his bottles of Heineken to keep him company!
 
Or you could do what Kipax did and apply for a conference license (I've just done this) and build from there. I know of a few who have done this to obtain a DataCo license but you'll still be working on spec unless you can build some newspaper conections. !

I dont intend to be doing any spec work ..I ahve my customers ready and waiting :) but they didnt fall in my lap.. its been a long hard road... but doable :)
 
Did I ever write that third installment of tutorials... :thinking:

Is that the installment that says "now you've learned all this stuff and put it into practice, you realise that you're not making any money and it's cold and raining, but bloody good fun anyway"?
 
I dont intend to be doing any spec work ..I ahve my customers ready and waiting :) but they didnt fall in my lap.. its been a long hard road... but doable :)

Didnt really mean that part for you (more of a general comment) as I think you mainly work for papers.
 
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