Flash/Speedlight Help

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cargo

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Gary
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Hi all.

Christmas coming soon and we have all the family around for Christmas dinner. Last year I took a group photo. Not done one before so it was a case of do it as quick as poss. I set tripod up flash on top bounced back to upper wall and ceiling I think or may be had a stoffen on and ponted up..
Camera manual and flash on ettl +1.
Result is below. Taken raw and edited eg pulled exsposure down a touch and changed white balance.
test_light02.jpg


Earlier this year I bought a small umbrella and a stand on inpulse. Needless to say I have not used it.
So I was thinking would it be worth using in this situation or would there be nothing to gain from the shot above. I just set this up and took 3 photos of myself goofing around (sorry for that but someone had to be in it)
I have not edited them in any way hence the white balance being out on them.

Camera is in manual f8 1/80 iso 620 and flash is on 1/2 power. Flash is placed to camera left about 6ft high.

1
Flash shot into reflective umbrella.
Reflected.jpg

2
Flash shot through translucent umbrella.
Shoot_through.jpg

3
Flash on camera bounced back/behind to wall and ceiling area. Back wall is that greeen colour and ceiling is white.
bounced_on_camera_into_cieling_wall_behind_camer.jpg


Any help would be much apreciated.

Thanks for reading.

Gaz
 
Last edited:
All I can add is the shadows on the walls in last one look softer which is less distracting, how it lights your group someone far more experienced than me will let you know.
 
Help with what exactly? Are they not what you expected?
 
HoppyUK said:
Help with what exactly? Are they not what you expected?
Click to expand...
Hi Richard

Well I think that is exactly where I need the help I'm not sure what I expected as not used the umbrella before or more to the point i'm not sure if I can tell which light is best.I was pleased with the outcome first time around but with having the umbrella I sort of assumed there would something to gain by using it.
As the above poster mentioned there seems to be a bit more shadow in the umbrella photos on the curtains and on viewing as I reply I think the ones above are softer but they have not been sharpened or edited.

So any thoughts would be of help.


Gaz
 
cargo said:
Hi Richard

Well I think that is exactly where I need the help I'm not sure what I expected as not used the umbrella before or more to the point i'm not sure if I can tell which light is best.I was pleased with the outcome first time around but with having the umbrella I sort of assumed there would something to gain by using it.
As the above poster mentioned there seems to be a bit more shadow in the umbrella photos on the curtains and on viewing as I reply I think the ones above are softer but they have not been sharpened or edited.

So any thoughts would be of help.


Gaz
Click to expand...

Some basics of how light behaves.

The larger the light source, the softer the shadows. Size is also relative to distance, so if a large light is moved back, it effectively becomes smaller and the light harder. And vice versa of course.

Brightness reduces rapidly with distance, broadly following the inverse square law that says at double the distance, the brightness will be reduced to one quarter. Basically it falls off much more rapidly than you might think.

Light bounces off a surface at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion. Ditto reflections.

In the first shot, the light source is mainly the rear wall/ceiling, plus some reflected off side walls etc. Very large light source, very soft, and coming from the right direction, ie above/front. Just the job for that situation.

Second shot with reflective umbrella, the main light source is the umbrella, but from distance so it's casting some shadows, though they're softened by the spill that has bounced around the walls/ceiling to fill-in quite a lot. If you'd used this for the first shot, the girl in red to the left of the baby would have been in shadow.

Third shot with shoot-through umbrella is very like the second, but the shoot-though has much more light spill. Half the light bounces out of the back and around the room, and from the front of the umbrella it's spread over something like 180 degrees so even more light bouncing around off walls/ceiling.

Last pic, bouncing off the rear wall, is basically the same as the first shot though uncorrected for colour it's showing the green.

Umbrellas and softboxes work better for solo portraits, couples and smaller groups, where they can be used closer/softer, and with more control as there's less spill and fill-in from surroundings. For larger groups, you can't do much creative with the light and wall/ceiling bounce as the main light source is often better and easier, though it uses a lot of power.

HTH :)
 
Well what can I say. Thanks so much that makes sense now. I was confused as to my eyes the bounced original image and last bounced photo looked best to which you have confirmed. It was most informative to read your explanation of where the light was falling and what effect it would have.
Will stick with the simple method. Thanks very much.

Gaz

:)
 
cargo said:
Well what can I say. Thanks so much that makes sense now. I was confused as to my eyes the bounced original image and last bounced photo looked best to which you have confirmed. It was most informative to read your explanation of where the light was falling and what effect it would have.
Will stick with the simple method. Thanks very much.

Gaz

:)
Click to expand...

You're welcome Gaz :)

The key is understanding how light works, and following those three underlying principles is a good start. Then it gets more difficult, deciding how best to do it within the confines of the room, the subject, and with the kit you have to hand ;)
 
Great explanation Richard, and I can second that. I hate group shots. Here's one with the CEO of Barclays Bank, the Deputy CIO and about 50 technology apprentices.

https://plus.google.com/103048835864369028813/posts/DMTyK6puyqF

It's backlit by the sun and I basically lit it the same way you lit your first shot Gaz (and the last one bar the green wall). Only difference was to get more coverage I used 4 SB900's banged into the ceiling. I did forget to flag off the front of the flashes so you can see a few shadows in the back if you look hard enough (the "black foamy thing" that Neil Van Niekerk http://neilvn.com/tangents/ talks about is ideal for this). The only thing you have any real control over is the flash/ambient balance. I have another difficult one on Monday with another public figure - I've seen the location and it's horrible - bright light right next to where the subject will be, and no light on him, and he's also not going be a) taking direction or b) staying in one place for long. I tried various setups with stand-in people: umbrellas, smaller more focused soft-boxes and ended up back at on-camera flash bounced into the ceiling behind me... It's not pretty, it's not dramatic, but it's huge, soft and safe - and that's what you need when the moment will only last a few seconds.. (as the actress said to the bishop :P)
 
Scooter said:
Great explanation Richard, and I can second that. I hate group shots. Here's one with the CEO of Barclays Bank, the Deputy CIO and about 50 technology apprentices.

https://plus.google.com/103048835864369028813/posts/DMTyK6puyqF

It's backlit by the sun and I basically lit it the same way you lit your first shot Gaz (and the last one bar the green wall). Only difference was to get more coverage I used 4 SB900's banged into the ceiling. I did forget to flag off the front of the flashes so you can see a few shadows in the back if you look hard enough (the "black foamy thing" that Neil Van Niekerk http://neilvn.com/tangents/ talks about is ideal for this). The only thing you have any real control over is the flash/ambient balance. I have another difficult one on Monday with another public figure - I've seen the location and it's horrible - bright light right next to where the subject will be, and no light on him, and he's also not going be a) taking direction or b) staying in one place for long. I tried various setups with stand-in people: umbrellas, smaller more focused soft-boxes and ended up back at on-camera flash bounced into the ceiling behind me... It's not pretty, it's not dramatic, but it's huge, soft and safe - and that's what you need when the moment will only last a few seconds.. (as the actress said to the bishop :p)
Click to expand...

Cheers Owen :)

I did a very similar group to your link recently, lit in much the same way with three bounced speedlites. I use black-wrap/cine foil attached to the guns with BluTack as a flag to prevent any direct flash falling on the subject - easy to bend and position exactly. Same basic idea as Neil Van's Black Foamie Thing, which is a great technique that he's a real master of - link http://neilvn.com/tangents/about/black-foamie-thing/ It's actually not difficult, the main task I find is positioning the subject near to a wall/ceiling where it can work.

For groups, it's hard to be very creative - just give them some decent light (ie soft, from above/front), then spend a good amount of time arranging people to fill the frame with an attractive composition, with faces clear. Step ladder is a very good tip - all good wedding photographers have one in the boot.
 
Scooter said:
Great explanation Richard, and I can second that. I hate group shots. Here's one with the CEO of Barclays Bank, the Deputy CIO and about 50 technology apprentices.

https://plus.google.com/103048835864369028813/posts/DMTyK6puyqF

It's backlit by the sun and I basically lit it the same way you lit your first shot Gaz (and the last one bar the green wall). Only difference was to get more coverage I used 4 SB900's banged into the ceiling. I did forget to flag off the front of the flashes so you can see a few shadows in the back if you look hard enough (the "black foamy thing" that Neil Van Niekerk http://neilvn.com/tangents/ talks about is ideal for this). The only thing you have any real control over is the flash/ambient balance. I have another difficult one on Monday with another public figure - I've seen the location and it's horrible - bright light right next to where the subject will be, and no light on him, and he's also not going be a) taking direction or b) staying in one place for long. I tried various setups with stand-in people: umbrellas, smaller more focused soft-boxes and ended up back at on-camera flash bounced into the ceiling behind me... It's not pretty, it's not dramatic, but it's huge, soft and safe - and that's what you need when the moment will only last a few seconds.. (as the actress said to the bishop :p)
Click to expand...
Thanks Owen. Great that you sent the link and your experiances when photographing things like this.
Thanks Richard & Matt too.
Gaz
 
also further to this, you can embarrass that pooch a little more with a more horrendous xmas outfit, with just a little more effort. maybe some reindeer antlers!? :P
 
Thanks Owen. Great that you posted this for me it's good to see how a photographer goes about the job day to day.

Gaz
 
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