Flash diffusers really work??

S

shane1980

Suspended / Banned
Messages
277
Name
Shane dennigan
Edit My Images
No
Hi,

I'm new to flash photography but have been getting used to my speedflash in ttl mode with camera in manual but my question is does ttl work when there a diffuser on as mine doesn't zoom with the lens when there one attached and can only see the fec an option.... am I missing something here where if it's off I can use ttl to auto change the spotlight zoom etc
 
Yes it works. TTL fires a preflash and measures it Through The Lens so any diffusers etc will be compensated for automatically. If you're choking the flash WAY down then the preflash may be so dim that the camera gets confused but it won't happen easily.
 
How come when I zoom in and out with the diffuser on the flash doesn't do the same as it does when the diff isn't attached

Sorry of it sounds silly newby to flash
 
Assuming the diffuser is a Stofen or similar, it works by allowing light out from almost 360 deg. This means light is bouncing off the walls and ceiling, negating the effect of zooming the head.
 
shane1980 said:
How come when I zoom in and out with the diffuser on the flash doesn't do the same as it does when the diff isn't attached

Sorry of it sounds silly newby to flash
Click to expand...

Depending on your model of flash, if you look closely at the underside of the head, you may find a tiny micro-switch that is depressed when a stofen type of diffuser is fitted. The micro-switch sets the zoom to the widest possible setting, and in the case of the SB900, it sets it to a wider setting than can be attained normally.
The reason for having the head set to it's widest setting , is so the diffuser can work at its most efficient.
 
Incidentally, the dome being called a "diffuser" is a bit misleading, as it doesn't really diffuse the light. As [user]Al Brum[/user] mentions above, the dome throws the light around in a "bare bulb" fashion, causing the light to bounce off the walls and ceiling, and it's the effective large surface areas of the bounced light that gives the appearance of diffusion.
 
Is there do any real need for it as I find without it the controls of shutter speed iso and aperture more workable....
 
Like any lighting tool, there are situations where it is better suited than others. To ask if there is any real need for it, is like saying do I need an umbrella. If it's not raining, then no.

I use them quite a bit indoors, and also use them outdoors, where technically, they are of no use at all, as there is nothing to bounce the light off. However, the dome means I get a visual confirmation of the flash when I'm behind the speedlight. The dome also sets the speedlight zoom to the widest possible setting as I mentioned earlier.
Each lighting tool tends to excel in specific circumstances, but may have uses in others.
 
Thanks for your comments I think personally it's for *** that don't know how to use flash properly and hope for the best as I don't mind the manual setups and technical jargon
 
shane1980 said:
Thanks for your comments I think personally it's for *** that don't know how to use flash properly and hope for the best as I don't mind the manual setups and technical jargon
Click to expand...

Interesting point of view. I would say David Hobby possibly knows a bit about lighting, as does Joe McNally, both of which make quite extensive use of Stofen diffusers.
There are a number of professional photographers on this forum whom I would say know what they are doing, and also make use of the Stofen type diffuser.

I produce wedding brochure images for some off the UK's leading hotel groups, and I also make use of the Stofen type diffuser.

However, I'm open minded and always interested in another point of view and willing to learn.

Incidentally, the Stofen type diffuser has nothing to do with using a speedlight manually or in auto mode.
 
I could be wrong but that's something that crossed my mind as you said there could be a situation where as it could be justified.

What do you make of video lights with the tungsten colour I was thinking of the Lowel id video light for weddings hear anything good about them
 
shane1980 said:
What do you make of video lights with the tungsten colour I was thinking of the Lowel id video light for weddings hear anything good about them
Click to expand...

There has been a few discussions lately regarding this type of lighting use. One such discussion is here, and the first post also links to another discussion.

As for my own opinion, I have nothing to base it on, as I have always resorted to either speedlights or location studio equipment, depending on the location characteristics and the needs of the client. However, I believe an LED type light (mentioned in the thread I linked to above), could be of benefit in images where I needed just a little additional light in a low key setting, although I have to say, speedlights and location kits give me far more flexibility and control.
 
What ever way you look at it, while flash diffusers do what they do well, the small on camera flash is still a point light source. All the diffuser does is alter the spread of light from the point light source, and make the point light source slightly bigger

Doing something simple, like bouncing your flash of a ceiling, suddenly turns your "point light source" into a large light source, which incidentally is not going to cast a shadow directly behind your subject
 
So Richard from your opinion in relation to weddings would you use a diffuser or just use the flash on its own with bounce etc....
 
What to use will depend on the look you want and the conditions on the day. There is no right or wrong here...
 
Al Brum said:
What to use will depend on the look you want and the conditions on the day. There is no right or wrong here...
Click to expand...

True. What you're trying to do with these diffuser accessories (and as Michael says, most of the diffusing bit usually comes mainly from the bounce surface rather than the device) is make the light source bigger.

There are loads of ways of doing that, all highly dependent on the surroundings unless you have something like an umbrella on the flash. I've got one of those too, and it works superbly, but is very unwieldy and you look like a right idiot :D

The best single accesory I know of, most versatile and effective indoors and out, and still reasonably practical, is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce. It's also efficient in terms of light, and packs away flat http://www.lumiquest.com/store/products/LumiQuest-Quik-Bounce.html

The key to it all is to understand how light works and adapt your equipment and technique to the situation.
 
shane1980 said:
So Richard from your opinion in relation to weddings would you use a diffuser or just use the flash on its own with bounce etc....
Click to expand...

Depends what I want to achieve. I am modifying my approach all the time

You need to know I use any of the following at any time:

- On camera flash
- off camera flash SB800's with either CLS or radio triggers
- Stands, small Wescot softboxes, umbrellas a-la-strobist
- Studio flash in the evening (pre-set up in advance)
- Studio flash mixed with on camera flash
- Reflectors - I carry the small 5-in-1 type, and use every surface as needed. somewhere in the bag is a bigger one
- Torches (focusable Lenser torches) - (brilliant by the way)
- Torches - large 2million candle jobs
- A small but full goodie bag full of black foam, a fold flat card board snoot, bits of card, rubber bands, scissors, the pieces of white silver foil backed cards you get from a takeaway, small piece of diffusing fabric, pegs, clips etc.. (cost of contents - about a fiver, yet totally useful)

---- I am not saying that all this gets in my way - it is all accessible to me through the day, and I use what I need. I like to work with a light load, however at the drop of a hat I can do a 2 flash set up with what's on me or in my pockets, or use a torch or reflector, that covers 90% of my day

To generalise.. indoors, especially if there is anything behind who I am shooting (which is normal for indoors) you either want off camera flash, or you want to be bouncing it, or you will get a shadow

There are 2 things to consider here

1. How big is the light source
2. Where is it

Here are the options for indoors

- on camera flash, with or without diffuser, pointed at subject, generally means you will get fairly hard light with an annoying shadow in the shot
- off camera flash, with or without diffuser, pointed at the subject - generally means you have a hard light source, with a shadow out of the shot, but the subject side lit (for example)
- on camera flash, pointed at a wall / ceiling / both - generally means you have a large soft light source with the shadow out of the shot
- off camera flash, pointed at the wall / ceiling - same as above, but slightly more choice
- off camera flash rigged up to a softbox, umbrella, shot through a (5 in 1) diffuser or bounced off a 5 in 1 reflector = soft but much more controlled light



Outdoors, there isn't much to bounce your flash off, unless you have an army of assistants, so you are either direct flashing, or off camera flashing, the latter letting you control the flash position & shadow a lot more. you still can use a 5 in 1 diffuser or reflector, but you always run out of hands

It is my opinion, that most of the after market diffusers give a fairly minimal change to the size or softness of flash, unless you are pretty close to the subject (its a geometry thing).

One of the most useful thing I use a lot with my small speedlights flash is use a stofen type diffuser, and then selectively flag it to control the direction of light radiates in - see this - this is a variation of what I do often http://neilvn.com/tangents/2009/11/21/the-black-foamie-thing/

also see this

http://www.the-meissners.org/2006-small-albums/2006-flashmod/index.html

Note that on some of the modifier examples, all the modifier does is get light bouncing off the ceilings and walls. In a outdoor or larger environment, the flash would be working harder to illuminate the subject properly, and the shadows would be a lot harder
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
The best single accesory I know of, most versatile and effective indoors and out, and still reasonably practical, is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce. It's also efficient in terms of light, and packs away flat http://www.lumiquest.com/store/products/LumiQuest-Quik-Bounce.html
Click to expand...

Shane, the Lumiquest stuff is worth every penny. I have a couple of Ultrasoft bouncers from Lumiquest, and they are my "get out of Jail free" card. In areas where the ceilings are thirty or forty feet high and dark jacobean oak, you have no chance at all of getting anything useful out of a stofen type diffuser, or anything else relying on bouncing from another surface. Obviously, work equally well outdoors too :D

[user]Richard King[/user]'s bag of tricks is exactly the same for him, insofar as he will create something Heath-Robinson style as and when he needs to. I admire him for that, I just tend not to have the time. Shame really, because I bet it's very satisfying to create the modifier from scratch and get the light absolutely as you want it.
 
Michael Sewell said:
Shane, the Lumiquest stuff is worth every penny. I have a couple of Ultrasoft bouncers from Lumiquest, and they are my "get out of Jail free" card. In areas where the ceilings are thirty or forty feet high and dark jacobean oak, you have no chance at all of getting anything useful out of a stofen type diffuser, or anything else relying on bouncing from another surface. Obviously, work equally well outdoors too :D

[user]Richard King[/user]'s bag of tricks is exactly the same for him, insofar as he will create something Heath-Robinson style as and when he needs to. I admire him for that, I just tend not to have the time. Shame really, because I bet it's very satisfying to create the modifier from scratch and get the light absolutely as you want it.
Click to expand...

Thanks

I do have a few shortcuts.

SB800 snoot
My snoot is simply a precut and pre-scored piece of black card. That was cutout with an extra tab, which has double sided tape on it to make a 8 inch long square , but fold flat modifier. Next up, take a bunch of black staws - stuff them in your snoot, when it is jam packed, pop a band aroun them and then run some black tape round both ends tightly, trim neatly, and you are done. A modifier that cost you 1 sheet of black card and a pack of straws

If you want to be really posh get a card scorer from hobbycraft
on the subject of hobbycraft, they sell great sheets of white, black, and metallic cards

Since I only use SB800's, it will fit on all of them

Silver sided takeaway cards are inspired
(Thanks Garry Edwards for that one)- Just ask your takeaway for a bundle of them, I paid mine a quid, and I now have a lifetime supply, the long ones are brilliant. What's great about these is that you can get an assistant just to hold it and reflect light onto a ring shot for example, they are super for the little quick still life set ups we do - rings, shoes, flowers

Lenser P7 torches are one of the most useful things I have.
- you can find your car with it
- you can set up firework shots and not fall in the ditch
- you can light paint with them
- you can use them for fill light
- you can focus them
- they are very bright
- they fit on a mic stand (worth knowing)
- they are small enough to go in your pocket
- I never leave home without one


5-in-1 reflectors are brilliant too, and dirt cheap.
- most of all I use the silver or gold side for fill light
- I use them a lot for bouncing flash from - that deals with the whole "tiny light source issue anywhere, all you need is a helper
- I sometimes shoot through the diffuser panel - again - you need a stand and or a helper

Black foamie thing
I have one, pre cut, has a strip of velcro on it, attaches in seconds. Use with or without diffuser

Pre cut card
I suppose a lot of my pre cut bits of card leave me with a result like the luminquest thing. The benefit of this is.. you can choose your card (and colour). I brought a very sharp craft knife kit, I don't want to turn up looking like I shoot with scraps of paper - lol

I have got to say, investing in a set of really small lightweight cheap stands, a brolly and wescot softbox, a flash holder thingy, firstly frees up your assistant, and secondly lets you really set things up in advance -

Strobist blog
I do recommend everyone reads the strobist blog from front to back, you can do amazing things with cheap flashes, and a handful of other items really fast, with a minimum amouint of gear
 
I have a lenser t7 there brill unbelievable light and as you said very handy
 
One more question when on the go eg shooting weddings, is it better to put the camera in aperture priority instead of manual mode as the case could be the ambient light changed regularly that it be time consuming adjusting the shutter along with aperture & iso...


Any thoughts appreciated
 
As with any type of photography, your choice of exposure, whether aperture or shutter priority, or indeed manual will be influenced by the subject matter and the effect you have in mind.
Using aperture priority will allow the shutter to be set by the camera, and if you do not pay attention, you can easily overlook the fact the camera has selected a slow shutter speed due to falling light levels, and you have a rather blurred image to mark the occasion.
Using shutter priority can also produce problems if you aren't paying attention to aperture settings selected by the camera. Again if the light falls, you could easily end up with the lens wide open and a rather shallow depth of field.
Assess the scene and select the appropriate setting.
Most of my work is done on manual, but I think that may be down to my original grounding with film cameras from the late sixties onwards.
 
I better off sticking to manual in camera and let the flash in ttl bl mode, would you switch between ttl and ttl bl often

Thanks for all the advise I appreciate it
 
shane1980 said:
One more question when on the go eg shooting weddings, is it better to put the camera in aperture priority instead of manual mode as the case could be the ambient light changed regularly that it be time consuming adjusting the shutter along with aperture & iso...


Any thoughts appreciated
Click to expand...

There is more to it than just that

I am considering ISO, aperture, shutter-speed all the time

Then I need to consider my capabilities - to focus / handhold

On top of that, each lens has a sweet spot in terms of sharpness

On top of that I have a specific look in mind in terms of DOF

On top of that add lighting. the thing with lighting is this - sometimes my lighting is "the main light" sometimes the "fill flight" so there is a thinking and balancing act to be made

On top of that add in that Weddings are fluid and moving - not only in terms of light, but on a moment to moment basis - in terms of light quality, colour, quantity. We are indoors, outdoors, all day, all night
 
Last edited:
I agree with Richard, there is much more to it. Multiple considerations, constantly changing situation, sometimes rapidly.

There's a whole stream of unconscious decisions going on when you go to make the next shot. Sometimes you will tweak the ISO, or shutter speed, or aperture, perm any two, or all three. Turn the flash up, point it at the wall, or switch off, change focal length, all while you're moving into position.

Sometimes you have to stop and think for a moment, but it usually happens in one fluid set of actions. Because you know what you're doing, and have done it a few times before.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top