Final decision on kit choice. Lencarta v Elemental.

Johnny Thunder

Johnny Thunder

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Hi everyone.

After lots of research and reading up on various studio lighting kits available, I have narrowed it down to the following two:


Lencarta SmartFlash 3-head Softbox/umbrella Kit

or

Elemental M Series Ultra Pro Studio 900


The price is quite different between the two products, and the kit that comes with the lights is different too.
I will be looking to tailor the package slightly to what I think is ideal for me.
I am thinking that, for my white background, I will need two heads dedicated to lighting the background, but which type of reflector do you suggest?
Lencarta have a background reflector, but I cannot find similar with other suppliers. The third head will be used for my subject(s) and for this I am
assuming an Octobox would suit.

My initial thoughts are, the Elemental heads look extremely well made, and the stands that are supplied look like real quality too.
The Lencarta heads look extremely well made, but the reason the kit is cheaper, is because the other kit is of a more 'budget' nature, ie. the stands.
I may be totally wrong in my assumptions, and if so, apologies.

I guess I am hoping that some of you have experience of both manufacturers or kits, and can give me your thoughts.


For reference, I will be using the spare room as a studio. Dimensions/space available: 4m wide x 5m long x 3m high.


Cheers guys.



John.
 
the elemental one is a quality level above the lencarta, depends on the abuse you intend to give it, itsdavedotnet runs these heads and rates em ;)
 
John, I don't really see your problem...

The other make is 50% more expensive so there must be something cheap and nasty about Lencarta?...

In fact the Lencarta SmartFlash started out as a much more expensive product but the price was then cut to the bone temporarily, and although the price had to go up slightly at the time of the VAT increase, they are still being sold at a very heavily discounted price, which is paying off handsomely for both customers and the Company, because nothing else on the market comes anywhere near it quality wise, either at the present price or at the old price.

Let me put it this way - if they were to cost 50% more than they do which would be the better bet?
The SmartFlash has no less than 9 capacitors inside it, which is the main reason why both the colour temperature and the flash energy are extremely consistent. Can you name any other manufacturer (or seller) with that spec? Come to that, can you name anyone else who actually states what's inside the case?

Studio lighting kits aren't easy items to make buying decisions about because sellers tend to quote figures that a lot of people don't understand - and even if they do understand them, they find it difficult to know whether those figures are actually correct. Take guide numbers for example...
What was the size and decoration of the room?
Which reflector was fitted to the flash head?
If you don't know the answers then the guide number is meaningless.

Colour temperature consistency - is it the seller giving those figures or the actual manufacturer? How were the tests carried out? Do you have a colour temperature meter to check the figures yourself?

Flash duration? Do you have an oscilliscope so that you can carry out your own tests?

So people buy based on other people's perceptions, which are not always based on fact, and which are often nothing more than an honest opinion based on their own experience of just that one product.

Middlesborough isn't all that far from Bradford, so why not arrange with me to come to my studio and have a good play? I don't have any products sold by Elemental here, but I do have quite a few Elinchrom products, so you can compare Lencarta directly with Elinchrom. Then you'll have the info you need to make a decision based on real facts.
 
Johnny Thunder said:
Hi everyone.

I will be looking to tailor the package slightly to what I think is ideal for me.
I am thinking that, for my white background, I will need two heads dedicated to lighting the background, but which type of reflector do you suggest?
Lencarta have a background reflector, but I cannot find similar with other suppliers. The third head will be used for my subject(s) and for this I am
assuming an Octobox would suit.

My initial thoughts are, the Elemental heads look extremely well made, and the stands that are supplied look like real quality too.
The Lencarta heads look extremely well made, but the reason the kit is cheaper, is because the other kit is of a more 'budget' nature, ie. the stands.
Click to expand...

I need to have a play with some background reflectors, if it meant I could move rear lights a chunk closer to the background, it would be well worth the money, (£100 a set of 2 from lencarta), though on the other hand another £50 would get me a hilite from fitp.
I have used brollies and 24" square softboxes and reflector+barndoors and just plain brolly reflectors all effectively as rear lights for white seamless, tending towards brollies at the moment, takes up more space and is a bit more flarey though...will probably have a play with them all and see what's best for me at some point, too busy right now though.
Octobox is a great key light for a lot of portrait stuff... though I got a beauty dish through today :D can't wait to hit up some pretty people with it some point soon and see how it treats me.

As for elemental vs lencarta... as dave said, I've made my choice, but the two systems are definitely very much comparable, and I have no bad feelings whatsoever towards lencarta... very much wishing I had the funds kicking about for one of their frensels, they look schweet! As do the lencarta folding up large octoboxes... not an issue if you've got a 'permanent' studio though I guess, they are expensive :( .

Metal bodies on the heads over ABS plastic ones was a bit of a selling point for me, I've gotta admit, however tough the ABS is, and also that the heads were from the same company as a guy that I shoot with regularly, so there definitely wouldn't be any colour issues between our sets. So both pretty minor points really :) Though the elemental stands are the mutt's, I won't lie :) Stand + their boom arm = rock solid even with a head and a softbox on, and works great.
 
Can only comment on my experience with the lencarta kit and have had no problems so far :), difference between ABS and metal wont be that much I highly doubt that the flashes are made from anything substantal most likely the same **** poor quality steel you get in PC cases atleast with plastic if you ding it it doesn't Dent[could be wrong not used there lights just experience of other metal objects that are apprently sturday contruction], I also don't go out my way to bash the lights about afterall, that is gas filled glass tube in the front so if you nock it over its gonna pop.

Also side note looks like the flashes on the Elemental site are out of stock and taking back orders :).
 
Another vote for Lencarta - problem free for me - very well made - stands are great too.
 
I bought a Lencarta kit and was very pleased with the quality and feel. Never got a chance to use it at all due to space limitations but it certainly did not feel cheap in any way.
 
Thanks for all your replies so far guys. Much appreciated.

I think I will probably go for an Octobox for key light. I am still, however, unsure about how to light the background. I appreciate that the Lencarta
background reflectors will probably do the best, and most efficient job of this, but I assume that they are pretty much useless for any other role.
Would I be more wise to use some other means for lighting the background, ie. brollies or softboxes, which can also be used for other roles.
I do not want to set up purely for high key. I would like to tailor the kit to be versatile.

I hope you can understand what I am waffling about.........:thinking:


Cheers.


John.
 
Yes, the background reflectors are your obvious choice but you are right, you are unlikely to find any other uses for them.

You could use reflective umbrellas or softboxes instead, they will require much more space and will not light the background as evenly - you would probably need 4 softboxes to do the same job as 2 background reflectors.
 
OK Garry, so what would you recommend as an all round kit for three heads? (Assume that I will buy two background reflectors as extras)
Would you say one Octobox, one Softbox and one Brolly?
 
Well, if it's an Octa softbox you want (depends on what you're shooting and the type of lighting effect you want) then I suggest either the 90cm or the 120cm (there is also a 150cm but it needs a fair bit of space) and both sizes are also available in the folding version, which of course is more expensive.

The cost will be similar, as you won't want the 2 60cm softboxes included with this kit £109.90 will come off of the kit price, then just add on the price of the chosen softbox and the 2 background reflectors.

It will have to be done by phone as the current website doesn't allow changes to kits.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
very much wishing I had the funds kicking about for one of their frensels, they look schweet! As do the lencarta folding up large octoboxes... not an issue if you've got a 'permanent' studio though I guess, they are expensive :( .
Click to expand...

I've got the 120cm folding Octa, and it was worth every penny ;)

So much less hassle than the other softboxes I have and I can get it into the car too.

I want a fresnel spot, but really can't justify the spend for something I'd probably use twice a year ( after the initial shoot everything via fresnel surge)
 
JasonRS said:
I've got the 120cm folding Octa, and it was worth every penny ;)

So much less hassle than the other softboxes I have and I can get it into the car too.

I want a fresnel spot, but really can't justify the spend for something I'd probably use twice a year ( after the initial shoot everything via fresnel surge)
Click to expand...

Is it as easy as it looks to use for frequent breakdown and put ups?
 
Yep, it's just like an umbrella.
Pop it up, velcro in the diffuser and you're away. I've made up a set of colour correction gels to fit inside, and they're dead easy to change whilst it's up too.

It's quite long when collapsed though (about 3ft), which I should have expected since that's basic geometry.
 
You don't actually have to do anything with the diffusers other than undo a corner of each, enough to get your hand in to release the catch. Then push the diffusers back as the softbox folds, to keep them clean.
Speeds the job up...

I want a fresnel spot, but really can't justify the spend for something I'd probably use twice a year ( after the initial shoot everything via fresnel surge)
Click to expand...
You're totally right. You don't need a fresnel spot. But if you do get one you'll wonder how you ever lived without it... :)
 
Johnny Thunder said:
OK Garry, so what would you recommend as an all round kit for three heads? (Assume that I will buy two background reflectors as extras)
Would you say one Octobox, one Softbox and one Brolly?
Click to expand...


Sorry Garry, you have misunderstood me.
I will probably be purchasing a three head kit with the background reflectors as extras.
I would like recommendations on what to include with the three head kit as standard to make it as versatile as possible.
I will mess with high key, but I would also like to try other styles.
I would like opinions on what to include in the basic kit to cover such things as key light, fill light, hair light etc.
Basically, a three head kit with two background reflectors as extras.


I hope you understand that. :thinking: I have had a few cans tonight.:)


John.
 
I think I did misunderstand John, but not really sure how much help I can be...

Key light: Can be literally anything from a spotlight to a massive softbox. If it's any help, if it's a soft/diffused light that you want then generally a softbox is a better bet than an umbrella because the light is more controlled.

Fill light: Either a softbox or a shoot through umbrella, on axis with the camera lens. If the fill is in front of the camera it needs to be a softbox, if it's behind the camera it may as well be an umbrella - cheaper. Of course, a fill light doesn't need to be a soft light, it depends on the effect you want, but soft lights are popular for fill

Hair light: It can be a white, silver or gold reflective umbrella, or a snoot with honeycomb, or a honeycomb mounted in a standard reflector. Basically if you have a trained model who can hold a pose then a 'tight' light such as a snoot or a honeycombed light makes a good, controlled hairlight - but for other people a reflective umbrella is a good, safe bet.
 
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