Filters and landscapes

SirG

SirG

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Jon
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Afternoon Ladies & Gents,

So I’ve recently brought my first DSLR a Canon 700d which came with the 18-135 lenses kit, and having some great fun with it so far. I’ve purchased a few circular filters for the 67mm lenses which came with a CPL (which I’m yet to actually use).

As this is all trial and error for me at the moment on my last run out to the new forest I forgot to put the CPL filter on, I understand this is meant to make greens greener and the sky a more vivid blue, perfect for landscape photography (I’ll know for next time).

Though since picking up a photography magazine and reading an article on landscape photography it mentions about ND grads & filters as an important part of landscape photography, doing a bit of research on these I’ve found that Lee filters seem to be the best but aren’t too friendly on the wallet, I’ve seen some very cheap ones on amazon for example but not convinced they’re even worth buying, like anything I suppose and especially in photography you pay for quality!

The question(s) I’m getting at, is there another company that offer a decent set of ND grads / filters other than Lee that aren’t as expensive and do the same job? Or is it literally worth just pushing for the Lee filters and having a set that won’t need replacing if taken care of?

Thanks,

Jon.
 
I started off using the cheap ones on amazon I think there was 6 in a pack with various lens adapters for £15 I can honestly say that they were c**p I have since upgraded to a cokin p series set up with three soft grad filters for around £40 still not breaking the bank but they are definitely superior to the cheap ones on amazon. I learnt the hard way "buy cheap buy twice"
 
I'd recommend going with the Hitech that Mark mentions, not too far off Lee in quality and a fair bit cheaper. Spending good money on a decent body/lens and then sticking something cheap/poor quality in front of it really doesn't make sense

Simon
 
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I concur with Mark. Go for the Lee filters if you can afford them they are superb and in my opinion miles better quality than the others. However, my second choice for a smaller budget would be Hitechs. They are good but also they are compatible with the Lee system and therefore you can gradually make the move to Lees if that's the route you decide to go down.
 
I'd recommend being sure before you shell out for an expensive filter system. That might seem obvious advice but I think there's a temptation to buy into filters before you know if they're really for you.

I just went for Cokin and although some report poor quality and colour casts I've never had a serious issue and I'm very glad that I went for a cheap system as after using them and persevering with them I eventually decided that I mostly just didn't need them and I can't really remember the last time I used them. These days if I use a filter it's just a screw on one to keep the shutter speed below 1/4000 sec.

So, my advice is to maybe just be sure before you spend a lot of money on a good but expensive filter system.
 
woof woof said:
These days if I use a filter it's just a screw on one to keep the shutter speed below 1/4000 sec
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I don't think I have ever used a shutter speed as fast as 1/4000, even without a filter. What are the rest of your settings?


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
I don't think I have ever used a shutter speed as fast as 1/4000, even without a filter. What are the rest of your settings?


Steve.
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Really? I have many many shots taken at shutter speeds in excess of 1/2000, 1/4000 and even hitting 1/8000 and that's in northern England. If you want to use a wide aperture in daylight the shutter speed can soon rise dramatically. On an ordinary day f2.8 might be the widest I could shoot if there's significant sky or brightness in the scene but occasionally even smaller apertures aren't possible.

Also, these days some cameras have higher base ISO's and that may compound the issue.
 
having recently retired my cokins after 5 years of loyal service in order to upgrade to the lee system i can honestly say there is a noticeable difference. I was getting colour cast issues quite significantly with the cokins towards the end of their tenure and having now done some side by side shots it is a fairly significant difference between the two. Very expensive but if you can afford them well worth the extra imo
 
woof woof said:
Really? I have many many shots taken at shutter speeds in excess of 1/2000, 1/4000 and even hitting 1/8000 and that's in northern England. If you want to use a wide aperture in daylight the shutter speed can soon rise dramatically. On an ordinary day f2.8 might be the widest I could shoot if there's significant sky or brightness in the scene but occasionally even smaller apertures aren't possible.
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Lets see (using sunny 16): ISO 100, f2.8 on a bright sunny day should be 1/4000 without any filters. Are you photographing on a planet closer to the sun?!!!

I assume you are using lenses faster than f2.8 then. I am usually around f8 so 1/500 is quick enough for me!


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
Lets see (using sunny 16): ISO 100, f2.8 on a bright sunny day should be 1/4000 without any filters. Are you photographing on a planet closer to the sun?!!!

I assume you are using lenses faster than f2.8 then. I am usually around f8 so 1/500 is quick enough for me!


Steve.
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No need to assume anything as I said as much in my post. You use f8 or so? That explains it although I would have thought you'd have realised the implications of using wider apertures in good light. It's not exactly a new issue and people have been using ND's for this purpose for as long as I can remember and before I was born. At apertures of f8 it shouldn't be an issue but then again you do see so many shots these days with the highlights blown to you know where :D
 
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We have to remember that this thread is entitled "filters and landscapes".

@SirG - Apologies I don't know your skill level but a large proportion (please note I'm not saying all) of landscape photographs are taken at f8, 11 or 16 in order to maximise the depth of focus. Some people go further using f22 but the limits of the quality of the lens then becomes an issue. It would be certainly recommended using a decent tripod (even more advice on this subject but I won't go into that for the moment). The use of ND grad filters are a great way of balancing a bright sky to the ground and can be used to reduce the chance of blown highlights. Shutter speeds mentioned by Alan appear more appropriate for action shots than landscape (again generalisation) and I certainly never get anywhere near that and with a tripod and filters I'm often at 1/60 or below. Heck using the joys of the Lee Big Stopper (other makes are available ;)) means I need to leave the shutter open for minutes on end - but that's a whole new ball game.

As you are new to the forum it may be worth looking out in the meetings section for a trip out with other TP members. You might get some hands on advice and even try before you buy. We're a friendly lot.... honest. Good luck with your purchase.
 
With your body/lens you'll get away with 85mm square filters.

Go for Hitech. You can get a cheap screw on adapter in the mm to match your lens, a plastic holder & a 2 stop Hitech hard grad filter for about £30 I'd imagine.
 
I think it's a mistake to believe you need filters at all when you only just got the SLR.
I practically never use them because you can get similar results in Lightroom.
This appears to be sacrilege, but fiddling about with filters is rarely required and mostly a distraction from what really benefits your landscapes - good composition and good lighting.

If your light is good you won't need filters at all - even software version of.
The only exception is a polarisers which in some rare circumstance might reduce reflections.
It's pretty unusual to want to see the bottom of a pond in my experience.
Just forget about them - especially extra expensive ones people say you should buy - and just use the camera.
Eventually you might want a dark one to achieve long exposures.
 
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depends on the dynamic range of the shot, its quite easy to blow out the sky or have dark ground

the cheaper nd filter grads are almost certainly poor, the colour ones I've briefly tried have been fine

84.5 filters from slovakia are decent too

I'd suggest a cheapo kit for the holder, rings and get spendy on the nd filters
 
A beginner certainly doesn't want to be paying the price of lee filters. You could get some reasonable glass for how much the basic kit would cost! Buy a cheap set of eBay first to learn how to use them and if you feel they are a must for your photography then think about an upgrade.
 
Get some Cokin P filters and have a play around with them. They're half decent and don't cost the earth. When you feel you know what you're doing with them and you seem to be using them a lot of the time, then go out and buy a Lee set. If you splash out big time now and then they end up sitting in a drawer most of the time, you'll just have wasted your money. If you buy them individually, don't bother with a 0.3 as you'll hardly ever use one.
 
Sorry for the late reply guys (connectivity issues). Massively grateful for all the feedback received. I'll certainly take a good review of all comments and have a ponder. :ty:

@Delta Skies Great stuff! thanks for the pointer on the meetings section, that would certainly be something I wouldn't pass up on.
 
Hang on a sec lads...@SirG I take it you are a hobbyist not someone who takes picture and wants to print them on big scale and sell them on etc?

Now lee and hitech are extremely expensive. Furthermore they are not very convenient to use I.e you need a lens holder which gets screwed on to your lens filter thread and then you slide in the square panel much like the old projectors. They make you look like you know what you are doing but believe me they are a pain to carry around and also you won't be able to walk around and take shots freely. These filters are really reserved for tripod work (my opinion only).

For what you trying to achieve I believe what you want is a CPL circular polariser which is the one you have, its a round threaded filter that gets screwed onto the front of your lens. You twist it to adjust the amount of polarisation you want. Generally people go for Max. What polariser do is to reduce reflection in the sky, water and greenary. So your sky and leaves become more saturated as well as developed a much higher contrast and generally become 1 or 2 stops under exposed thus giving you more details as otherwise they would be overly exposed. And for your need I would recommend the hoya HD variant of CPL for 58mm you are probably looking at around 40 quid. Where lee system will run into hundreds. Just check out the prices for the holder system alone...

Now in terms of ND filters get the 10 stopper. Basically it is a set of sunglasses for your lens so it allows you to take long exposure under day light condition. Benefit is you can smooth out motions, such as wave movements, people, cloud movements. You can achieve some dramatic as well as very pleasing scenes. I have a few of ND which I collected over the time, but the 10 stopper is the one I use most. And do not buy Grad ND, ie those half clear half dark ones. Pointless, you can do the exact same thing in Photoshop.

So DON'T go off and buy the lee or hitech filters stick with the screw in filters. Also 90% filters only works when there are plenty of light so if you got a gloomy day or want to take night time picture filters are almost entirely useless.
 
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ricky1980 said:
And do not buy Grad ND, ie those half clear half dark ones. Pointless, you can do the exact same thing in Photoshop.
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Not with a single exposure of a high contrast scene. And often, separate exposure are not practical. e.g. if there is movement in trees/water/clouds/etc.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Not with a single exposure of a high contrast scene. And often, separate exposure are not practical. e.g. if there is movement in trees/water/clouds/etc.


Steve.
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I will give you that. But you can still do two shot HDRs ;)
 
Steve Smith said:
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!


Steve.
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Indeed just because lee and hitech costs mega bucks doesn't mean you should pour hundreds of pounds into a system that does suit your need.

Also I should have caveated that I have my tripod with me most of the time. So the high DR scenes don't bother me much as well as the D610 sensor can do a good job of recovery.
 
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There's lots of conflicting advice on here so I'll just add my tuppence worth.

For landscapes in my opinion a polariser is a must.

A ND grad or two can be really useful to balance exposures between sky and ground. This can be achieved in software but a lot of people (including me) prefer to do this in camera if possible. There's no need to buy a set. You can start off with one and see how you get on with it. A 2 stop hard grad would be a good starting point. So you could, if you wanted, go for good quality rather than quantity.

ND grads are a bit marmite. They can produce great results but most people only seem to achieve mediocre ones. They are very specialist bits of kit and in my opinion you need to have a very good understanding of the basics before you can use them successfully.
 
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markmullen said:
A set of Lees will last you a long time and not need upgrading, so if you can afford them are the best solution IMO.

Hitech are cheaper and good, Cokin cheaper still.
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I did a little research not so long ago and found lee's 100 system to be a little cheaper on Amazon than the hitech equivalent. I wanted to get a big stopper but both makes are a bit pricey to start up. Although I don't doubt their worth for now ive just got the srb 1000 screw on. Once I get into grades I'll get the Lee holder system and use which ever filter is better for price between the for mentioned makes.
 
ricky1980 said:
Indeed just because lee and hitech costs mega bucks doesn't mean you should pour hundreds of pounds into a system that does suit your need.

Also I should have caveated that I have my tripod with me most of the time. So the high DR scenes don't bother me much as well as the D610 sensor can do a good job of recovery.
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With respect there will be times when you just can't compress a scene into one frame and try and recover it without horrendous noise, take the North York Moors with the dark heather, or some of the highlands of Scotland with dark rocks, couple that with a bright sky and you've got far more dynamic range than even the best cameras can manage. I shoot medium format digital which has a higher dynamic range and potential for pushing and pulling files and there are still plenty of occasions where I need grads to shoot a scene in one frame.
 
markmullen said:
With respect there will be times when you just can't compress a scene into one frame and try and recover it without horrendous noise, take the North York Moors with the dark heather, or some of the highlands of Scotland with dark rocks, couple that with a bright sky and you've got far more dynamic range than even the best cameras can manage. I shoot medium format digital which has a higher dynamic range and potential for pushing and pulling files and there are still plenty of occasions where I need grads to shoot a scene in one frame.
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Ok, with grad ND it is a lot better to shoot HDR scene absolutely. But I personally prefer to use HDR photo-merge. and to the OP's need i don't think he will require lee or hitech filter systems that's for sure. If he reads up about HDR merges he can also use HDR instead of buying a set of grad ND and if he reads up a bit more on how to use photoshop then he can replicate the grad ND filter on alost 90% of the landscape scenes. as soon as you want a set of grad NDs you gonna get into a situation lee/hitech invest the best blah blah blah, considering the OP is not trying to make money out of his shots but as a hobby. I am obviously still under the assumption that SirG is a hobbiest. If he is trying to sell shots then yes by all means buy the Lee or Hitech, I recommend those any time of the day...

consider the economy, a holder is more than £100, 100mm CPL is twice that, I don't even know what a set of grad ND and a 10 stopper would be combined. seems a lot of money when a Hoya HD CPL can do the job. again I am assuming OP is not a pixel peeper or particularly concerned with the light transmission etc and the lens performance is of moderate nature as opposed to the likes to Zeiss 21 or Nikon 14-24 f2.8
 
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that's fair enough. I do get where you coming from, I don't disagree with it, but all I am saying it's my preference. I have been down the route myself, hated it as I ended faffing about with filters more than taking pictures. for instance, I was in the West Lake in China, Hang Zhou long ago. I had the cheapo kood filters. I was at this nice spot with the pergoda in the shot and a rock boat in the lake and the sun was setting behind it all over the hill side. stunning place. got my shot setup and from the point of the sun going orange to the point of the sky turn scarlet and the sun disappears over the top of the hill it was about 30min. the dynamic range of the scene was changing minute by minute from full light to almost nothing. I had the square filter set at ready and constantly swapping those grads out and so froth and measuring the sky with my camera then recompose. I missed so many shots. I review the shots I had very few i liked. then I went back next day and used HDR. I couldn't tell if they were good on the spot. but when i got home and processed the HDR and filtered ones, well it was all clear. Every HDR tonal mapped ones were usable and I had controls over micro-contrast as well as tonal range when processing the HDR. the final picture looked a lot better than the filtered ones. Some of them i tried with a hard ND and it was rubbish (noob). The ones with soft ND, they were usable but because i spent a lot of time faffing with the filter and the sun was going down fast, the exposure wasn't bang on. So i settled for silhouettes at the end. also to add, I used D90 then, it didn't have great Dynamic Range but it was able to bracket up to 3 stops.

But what I don't recommend in this case is to go out there buy Lee and Hitech. seems like trying to kill a fly with a nuclear missile.
 
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