Beginner Filter queries slightly confuddled

Ellie Jones

Ellie Jones

Suspended / Banned
Messages
251
Name
jo
Edit My Images
Yes
After trying out some rather cheap screw on round filters, with not so great results then having a quick demon and taking a couple of photography's with coloured grad filters on a day course, with much more pleasing results... I've decided to invest in some filters, as I'd rather get the look in camera that I'm after, than faffing with PP to get it!

Are the systems interchangeable?

If I brought Cokin filter holder, could I then use Lee filters in said holder and vis versa....

So an 100mm Lee will fit in a Cokin holder that designed to take their 100mm filter?

At the moment I be using 2 possibly 3 lenses

Tamron 17-50 f2.8 (if)
Canon 18-55 kit lens
Canon 70-200 1.4L

I'm aware that if issues concerning vignetting with ultra wide angles... So any particular holder, which would be a no for these 3 lenses?

Filters themselves..

Which is a good combination to start with..

After taking a look around, how to use filters, I've come to the conclusion that some of the photographs I intend to take are either just going to use a coloured filtered (as I did on the landscape course) but others I'd be either using an ND or a compilation of ND and coloured...

So if I decided to start out with between 4 and 6 filters What be the best choice to get maximum flexibility...
 
I don't wish to add to the confusion, but IMHO there's no point in using a filter for an effect that's easy to produce in post (and I'm not generally a 'fix it in post' kinda guy)

Because when you've stood out in the cold all day, and created your 'masterpiece' with a tobacco grad, what happens when you decide you might like the look of a pinker or bluer sky? Basically, you're stuffed, you've 'filtered out' some of the colour you might want to use.

However, the effect of ND filters, ND Grads and polarisers cannot be reproduced in camera (you can actually improve on a grad with some faffing, but that's a different debate). So I'd say, a quality 10 stop, 3 or 4 stop, a circular polariser and a case of wine.
 
Ermmm, a case of wine sounds so tempting.... Mind you, I do have a sneaky suspicious that while supping on a case of wine, while using a camera may not improve one's ability to take a photo there again I could be wrong, definitely interesting though....

The less faffing in PP the better for me, as this is an area of photography that I'm really struggling at, wish I could blame it on having a mid range lappy and mouse, but alas I tend to get lost in layers in Photoshop, so more comfortable in Lightroom even though I barely go above basics.....

Thanks for you info, so I'm looking at just looking at the ND's side of things, and seeing if I can make up a short fall within PP when it needs to perhaps put a coloured filter in to change the warmth or aspects of colouration of the photograph...

I will hold my hands up, when it comes to taking a photograph, patience often gets the better of me...... Hopefully using filters will help with getting me to think more..
 
Filters or other gear do work sometimes to give people the spark required to keep their mojo up.

However, for most people the key is to shoot what you love.

Why on earth are you shooting landscapes if you find the act of shooting them boring?
 
To answer your question, yes, filter systems are pretty much interchangeable between different brands of filter and holder. There are two popular sizes - Cokin or P-Type (84mm filters) and 100mm-type (sometimes called Z-System). Some Lee filters are slightly thicker, but they should still fit other holders. Also look at Kood, SRB and Formatt-Hitech, amongst others.

But I'm with Phil really - I only use filters for an effect that can't be obtained better or more easily by other method. The filter I use most is a polariser, the landscaper's favourite, for blue skies and richening foliage. The other is an extreme ND, nine stops of neutral density, for milky water effects etc - you can't replicate those effects in post processing. IMHO both these filters are better as screw-ins. I also have a slot-in grad, but can't remember when I last used it. I do all that kind of thing in Lightroom, it's so easy, and since I recall that you have both Lightroom and Scott Kelby's excellent book on how to get the most from it, I would urge you to get over your inhibitions and get stuck in. Adding a coloured tint to a sky for example is the work of a few seconds (it's in the LR Basic panel). The latest version of LR (only on Creative Cloud subscription unfortunately) has some extra features, including one that allows you to cut out around things that protrude above the grad line - buildings/churches, trees etc.

On the other hand, some people love filter systems and enjoy the almost ritual business of faffing about. Good for them, whatever does it for you, and I can't deny the pleasure of actually seeing the right result popping up right here on the LCD :)
 
I agree with Phil and Hoppy - I wouldn't bother with coloured grads, just go for ND grads and filters and a polariser - effects you can't replicate afterwards - and add any tint or colour in Lightroom - it's worth the effort to learn, and a lot more flexible.

I don't disagree with your logic around using filters to slow you down a bit though. When I shot infrared using a filter rather than a converted camera, it necessitated a ~30 exposure and a lot of faffage (aperture, bulb mode, compose, focus and lock before adding the filter, covering the viewfinder, sitting back and waiting, waiting for the NR cycle to complete, etc.) It did force you to think about it a bit more and consider your shots. Problem is, I was the patient one - my wife was the one who used to kick the tripod if she got bored... :D

Having said that, I've always wondered if a reverse / sunset grad was worth the effort?
 
James Blonde said:
<snip>

Having said that, I've always wondered if a reverse / sunset grad was worth the effort?
Click to expand...

I would say yes, not that I have a reverse grad but I can see the potential. (For those that don't know, a reverse grad has a darker band across the middle, fading to clear both above and below - or some variation on that theme.)

Grads have a couple of uses, not just darkening a bright sky (and/or adding a tint) but often preventing it from blowing out to pure white. When that happens, it's impossible to do anything in post-processing other than add a fairly drab grey tone over it. That's particularly true of sunsets when the sun and area surrounding it is still very bright, and impossible to hold just by adjusting exposure, without making the rest of the scene very dark. A reverse grad helps a lot there.
 
I've not disappeared just thinking:)

@Phil V

It's not that I find landscape boring, it's more that I'm pretty sure that some of the disappointment with some of my photographs, is because I haven't taken the time to think the scene through enough..... The shot is looking good on the back of the camera, but when I get home it's washed out on my computer screen....

But I think that I may have stumbled across part of the answer while having lunch with my daughter today...

I can access my mycloud storage via my iphone app, so was showing her a couple of photographs I edited yesterday, but from memory that looked they had more depth of colour, and details like the sky was standing out more.... So I've just come home and checked what I see on my iphone to what appears on my computer screen, and I was right on my computer they looked slightly washed out on colour, but so much better on my iphone!

Not sure where I need to go to rectify this issue....

@James Blonde, Hoppyuk , Phil

So don't bother with any coloured to start with, but get a couple of decent grad filters, then go from there....

And pull my socks up, and crack on with getting my head around Lr (prefer this to Ps) and start mastering editing, without having the feeling that I'm cheating....

Nest, question going have to be,,,

Would I be right in thinking, soft grads to start, rather than hard's due to the latter really requiring a definite hard horizon split?
 
If you are getting very different renditions on your desktop and phone, you probably need to calibrate your displays.
 
john.margetts said:
If you are getting very different renditions on your desktop and phone, you probably need to calibrate your displays.
Click to expand...
This^

And the learning begins.

We start out thinking we need a decent camera, then we realise that we need to learn a little about photography. Once we're on that journey we realise that there's loads of other 'technical' stuff to eat our time and money.

Histograms, screen calibration, colour gamut, colour space, plugins, actions, filters at both ends of the process, paper types, presentation products, walking boots, sunset apps, sensor cleaning, straps, bags, tripod heads :runaway:
 
Just to add a bit regarding the interchangeable filter systems - I use a Hitech holder with a mix of hitech and Lee filters.

Never had a problem with fitment. The holder I have has 3 inserts so I could stack up to 3 filters.

Perhaps go for soft grads - perhaps at 0.3 and 0.6 as you can stack them to get 0.9 if you wished. A 10 stop comes is handy too.

The only screw on I have is a Polariser.

Good luck!

Keep an eye on the classifieds here....there are always filters and holders coming up.
 
Agree with Phil - if you want to lift your photos above the standard of snapshots, you've got to put the work in ;)

In case you're wondering, ND filters and ND grads are marked in various ways according to density - one stop is 0.3 or 2x, two stops is 0.6 or 4x, three stops is 0.9 or 8x, and so on. Some are just marked 'medium' which will usually be around two stops.
 
Thanks for the information on grads, and where to best start with...

Now, it's time to have a serious think, what sits on my lists of 'to do' or 'kit needed' is the best place to start...

So now I need to considered is it wiser to resolve my screen calibration issue, as I'm sure this impacts on learning Lr, or whether to go ahead with filters! As yes I suspect having filter to had, will improve my picture, but without being able to edit on a calibrated screen, then perhaps I won't know, what works best with the filters!

I know I'm at a disadvantage with my printer as it's not a photo printer, it's replacement had already on the back burner, but would it be better to bring this forward to before purchasing filters?

Even though, I'm still on the rather steep part of the learning curve, looking back to this time last year when I brought my entry level 1200d, I'm surprised how far I've come, I actually didn't buy the camera with 'armature/hobby' photography in mind, but to enable me to use the provided camera Jig's at record offices to take photo's of documents that can't be scanned for family research purposes. I actually didn't fall in love with photography until last May, a weeks annual leave and day trips out, excuse the pun but something just clicked...
 
Well this is nice :)

I agree with EVERYTHING everyone has told you above - even Phil ;)

The ONLY filter I have is a '10-stopper' as that cannot be reproduced in post

If you shoot seasides a lot then ND Grads are useful, for everywhere else they are a PITA and there are better ways to achieve the same results (HDR & exposure blending) - cheaper too - in post

Having your own high quality printer is FAB :)

And bloody expensive too :(

Unless you are printing LOTS of photos to sell I wouldn't bother, just find a printer you like and save them up to send in batches (using their profiles of course and from your calibrated screen) to cut down on postal charges. That said, there's nothing like having your own masterpiece land beside you from your own printer; but then what? Unless its a one-off going on your wall you'll just add it to your folder of large expensive prints never to be seen again (as I did once upon a time)

My top tip - buy the best lenses you can an if there's any spare cash spend it on going out and shooting stuff :) Buy into Adobe's online CC for LR & PS and 'spend' a lot of time learning to get the best from the images you've shot. Eventually, you'll develop a style of shooting that is based on how you're then going to PP those photos as the overall shoot to PP will become your style. Oh, and it'll change over time too so all those amazing images you printed you'll think are now s**t as they are not your (then) current style :D

Enjoy

Dave
 
I have had a quick read through and would like to add my advice. I, like many, went through the which filter thoughts. I decided to go for 100mm because if you go wide you have a lot less chance of vignetting. Lee Filters do wide adaptors (the bit that screws in to you lens enabling you to clip the holder to it) for their holder which basically mounts the holder tight to the lens, not sure why you would not want this but hay ho.

I managed to get a second hand set off of the selling pages on here, which it's a good way to start your collection. I got a Lee filter holder, 72mm wide adaptor, and Big Stopper, filter pouch, along with three hi-tech ND grads.

Because I enjoy seescapes for me it was well worth the investment. But although I'd like to add some more NDs and ND grads I wouldn't bother with colour for the reasons others have mentioned.

The reason I would recommend square rather than round filters (I also tried cheap nasty round ones) is because you can focus you composition (I used manual and zoom in on live mode) and then put on your Big Stopper or other ND without fear of adjusting the focus.

So, if you're on a budget I recommend getting good second hand rather than rubbish new. I haven't tried any other holders but the Lee one is superb.
 
Last edited:
Also only had a quick read so forgive me is this has been covered...

If you want to use filters with more than one lens make a note of the filter sizes of your lenses and buy one to fit the largest diameter lens and use step up rings to convert any smaller lenses.
 
editing on a laptop never :police: the angle alone has to be perfect every time you edit or you will get different results hth Mike.
 
Oh dear, really don't want go back to building desktops again (used to always build my own) I swapped to a laptop due to space issues, desktops just take up too much room when space is limited.

But surely if the problem lies in screen position, then a simple bracket to ensure that when editing the screen is always in the same position will resolve a lot of the problems, just need to find the best screen position for editing!

I do have my old monitor from my desktop days, not sure how good it is, it was high spec when I first brought it, and I know that it will need calibration... As I often use it when transcribing documents. open word on the lappy have the document up on the 2nd monitor.....

@woof woof

Thanks for the tip, not thought about using stepping rings to fit different lenses..
 
Hi Ellie, If you use an IPS screen on the laptop then the screen position shouldn't effect the colour rendition that much. It's pretty clear to see, if you move your head to the sides or above below, whether the appearance changes. Most mid range and above laptops should have IPS screens.
Worst case if you really wanted another monitor, you can plug one into your laptop, rather than going to the time and money expense of building a new desktop, although geeky fun!
 
rich_ said:
Hi Ellie, If you use an IPS screen on the laptop then the screen position shouldn't effect the colour rendition that much. It's pretty clear to see, if you move your head to the sides or above below, whether the appearance changes. Most mid range and above laptops should have IPS screens.
Worst case if you really wanted another monitor, you can plug one into your laptop, rather than going to the time and money expense of building a new desktop, although geeky fun!
Click to expand...

I used to do that, works well. Good editing screens like Dell Ultrasharp are under £200. I had mine rigged so the laptop acted as a dual screen - fine for basic reference stuff, docs, web pages etc - and did the quality working on the Dell (y)
 
Just doubled checked my lappy screen specs, and it is an IPS screen, so hopefully it might calibrate reasonable well. but a second screen is on the cards, but have to hold on that one, Son may have flown the nest several months ago, but seems to have neglected that he takes all belongings (junk) with him! And until he does, I can't turn it into my Study.....


I also had a play with Lr, found some youtube tutorials, which I'm finding easy to follow phew.... A lot easier than the book I brought.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top