f/4-5.6 on Lens, explain please

So at 55mm it will be f4 minimum but at 250mm it will be f5.6 minimum.
 
So I can only use an aperture within that Range and not ,for instance f16?

Sorry Gramps, reread your reply and you say Minimum but all else is available
 
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No ... you can use f16 but at the quoted mm you cannot go lower than f4 or f5.6.
 
So I can only use an aperture within that Range and not ,for instance f16?

No you can use smaller apertures :thumbs: what is lists is the largest aperture toy can get, remember small numbers = big hole, big numbers = tiny hole :thumbs:
 
btw the minimum aperture will be f22-f32 on that lens. Ie you can't set anything wider than f22 at the wide end or f32 at the long end
 
At the minimum focal length, you can use apertures from f/4 to f/22. At the maximum focal length, you can use apertures from f/5.6 to f/32. The high f numbers aren't very interesting because all lenses can do that, and it's the lowest f numbers that make the difference between lenses. So it's described as f/4 - f/5.6.
 
The F-Number is a ratio of the diameter of the 'hole' in the middle of the lens, the 'aperture' to the lenses focal length.

So, if you have e 50mm lens, with a 25mm hole or 'aperture' the f-number is f-2

If you had a 500mm lens with a 25mm hole or aperture the f-number would be f-20

Make sense?

OK: - 55-250mm f/4-5.6

Means that at 55mm focal length, the biggest aperture gives an f-number of f-4.5; but zoom in, to the 250mm focal length, the apperture gives an f-number of only f-5.6.

Do the maths to find out how big the maximum aperture is in actual mm and the sums don't work though, because it's a 'composite' lens made with a number of 'floating elements' and the focal length isn't the 'actual' focal length of a single bit of glass, but the equivilent focal length from stacking a number of elements together all offering a different level of magnification. So don't worry about it.

What it means is, that at the 55mm end of your lenses zoom, you can go down from whatever the smallest aperture, (highest f-number) is; perhaps F22 all the way up to f4.5. But at the 250mm end of the zoom, you can still get f22 or whatever, but the widest you can set is f5.6.

Between 55 & 250, the widest aperture will change, and you can get some pretty unusual f-numbers pop up, as the camera works out what the 'effective' f-number widest aperture is at that focal length.

But basically its just that the APERTURE is not the F-Number... though people usually use the term synonomousely, as when setting the apperture, they select an F-Number as that's what the dial that changes the hole diameter is marked in, as its a convenience for exposure calculation.

The Exposure Triangle, says that for a certain light 'brightness' or 'Exposure Value' (EV) you can set a 'correct' exposure, from balencing any of the three commodities;

1/ ISO Sensitivity / Film-Speed ASA
2/ Shutter Speed
3/ Apperture

If I have an EV that suggests ISO400 sensitivity, 1/120th shutter speed, and f8 apperture, then I can get the same exposure from ISO100, two 'stops' less sensitivity, but I would need to get extra light by reducing shutter speed two stops to 1/30s or opening the aperture two stops, to f4. OR I could reduce each just one stop, so shutter down to 1/60th AND aperture opened to F5.6.

One 'stop' represents a doubling of light; so ISO 400 is one stop 'faster' than ISO200, which is one stop 'faster' than ISO100. The shutter speed 1/120th is 1/120th of a second, so the tap letting light in is open half as long, hence lets in half as much light as the shutter speed 1/60th.

When it comes to the aperture................ you would have a mental breakdown over the maths, if you tried working out the 'stops' from actual hole diameters and focal lengths!

Hence F-Number ratio's are a convenicence, pre-contrived to create convenient 'stop' settings.

50mm lens, 25mm aperture diameter. 50mm lens has wide angle of view, so is catching light from a VERY big area of scene, and its able to pass through a very big hole; so you get a lot of light.

500mm lens, 25mm aperture diameter. lens has very small angle of view, aperture is the same size, so will still pass the same amount of light without dimming it, BUT coming from such a small area of scene. f20 is aprox seven stops slower than f2, and remember each stop is a doubling of light... so seven doublings... you are only getting light from about 1/128th of the area of scene you would have at 50mm

SO... using f-number 'ratios' we keep the maths easy. F4 on a 500mm lens would be an aperture diameter of 125mm... you'll probably struggle to find a long lens that fast, it would have to be HUGE to get a hole that big in it... but no matter... if we have a 50-500mm lens, and we set f4 on the aperture ring.... then at 50mm end, the iris will be stopped down to 12.5mm, to let less light in; and as we zoom in, and start loosing light from the field of scene, the iris will open up, to compensate and let more light in, and keep our exposure correct, getting bigger and bigger, but retaining the ratio of diameter to focal length... making our exposure sums easy.

Clear as mud? Oh well. Best I can do. sorry!
 
well explained Mike :thumbs:

Les

Ps: just what I was about to say :lol::lol:
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171096633318?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649.

Hi all, Just bought and received this from Ebay,
CANON EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Mark 2 AUTOFOCUS LENS +FILTERS,LENSES, & MORE!

but not sure (bit of a Newbie) what the f/4-5.6 means??
Can anyone explain please, often see Lens as Constant f2.8, etc

As above, for your question about f4.0 - 5.6. Constant aperture means that the lens retains a 'constant' (the same) aperture throughout the zoom range and doesn't vary with the focal length. It's good to have, but constant aperture lenses are generally more expensive and sometimes a lot more expensive!
 
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As above, for your question about f4.0 - 5.6. Constant aperture means that the lens retains a 'constant' (the same) aperture throughout the zoom range and doesn't vary with the focal length. It's good to have, but constant aperture lenses are generally more expensive and sometimes a lot more expensive!

It can actually be looked at both ways;

Constant F-Stop.... remember the aperture is the hole size, and that is very rarely 'constant', even on a prime, fixed focal length lens its norrmaly a variable diameter iris; on a zoom lens where the f-number may be 'constant' throughout the zoom range, it's still got a variable diameter apperture to let you set different f-numbers..... confuddling terminology, innit?!?!?!

Anyway, can be looked at both ways, as I said, and a constant through zoom f-number, lens will tend to be a more expensive lens.... for the same fastest f-stop

Longer lenses tend to be more expensive; they give more magnification, so the glass has to be more curved, which means thicker, and more difficult to shape. They also need a much bigger aperture behind them to give the same f-number, so to make them even reasonably fast, they have to be bigger in diameter as well as thicker and more bowed; meaning harder still to make, and make accurately enough to give decent results.

Remember the maths; F-Number is aperture diameter divided by focal length; so on a 50mm lens you only need an aperture of 25mm or about an inch to get the reletively fast f-number of f-2, one stop faster, f1.4 still only needs a 35mm hole, so you can get that in a lens that has a barrel diameter under two inches.

OK, lets scale that up to 500mm.... to get a fast f2 f-number we need a hole diameter half the focal lenth... 250mm, almost TEN inches, and our lens would have to be almost a foot accross the barrel. That a LOT of glass and its gonna be heavy, as well as unweildy, as well as expensive to make.

But, using compound lenses, rather than making one big chunk of glass with a big bow in it, and sticking it a long way from the film-plane... sorry 'sensor'... if we use two or three or four smaller, more mildly bowed bits of glass that are cheaper and easier to make, they each multiply the magnification, to give the same effective magnification as a big long single element lens...

BUT we get a double whammy; some of those bits of glass are going to have to move forwards and back to let us change focus.. BUT we can use those same 'movements' or perhaps introduce an extra one or two, and changing the focal length between a couple of elements, multiplied by the others, gives us a Variable-Focal-Length lens or in common parlance... a ZOOM!

Now, multiplying magnifications to give an 'effective' focal length through a group of lens elements rather than just one... well, the aperture size is going to similarly be effected by these magnification effects, so where its placed in the lens in relation to the moving elements is going to change it's 'effective' size, and possibly its effective size in relation to the zoom setting. Hence the sums not adding up on many modern lenses according to the theoretical ratio.

However; placing the aperture to get a constant f-number can impediment the lens makers options to improve lens performance, or it may mean that within the constraints of making a lens reletively compact and lightweight, they may have to compromise the fastest aperture setting to do it.

Or they could just get down and dirty; I mean, my 18-55 kit I think is a 3.5/5.6 F-stop lens... they could, if they thought that people would percieve it a 'better' lens if it has a zoom setting independentfastest f-stop... simply put a limiter in it, so it was f5.6 fastest aperture setting accross the zoom range... same lens.. but the idea that 'constant f-number' must be better, would imply that that actual removal of functionality made it some-how 'better'... which obviously it wouldn't... hence looking at it the other way; and
zoom-dependent fastest aperture settings, can be looked at as a 'bonus' giving you a 'bit of extra' where it is possible, almost for nothing.

It's not necessarily 'Bad' or necessarily 'cheap'; it's just where the compromises in the lens design have been made; and a constant through zoom F-number doesn't necessarily mean a 'better' lens.
 
there is also another factor
the smaller the F-number, proportionally the greater amount of light you get through the front of the lens....also to consider is...the greater amount of money that escapes from your wallet :P
 
there is also another factor
the smaller the F-number, proportionally the greater amount of light you get through the front of the lens....also to consider is...the greater amount of money that escapes from your wallet :P

Larger f-number let's in more light.

It's a fraction or ratio, hence why it's written f/2.4 or 1:5.6 on your lens. 1/2 is twice as large as 1/4. But, it's also worth a reminder that because it's a fraction/ratio of an area that's why there's a two-stop difference between f/2 and f/4 whilst there's only a one stop difference between 1/2- and 1/4-second. So f/2 is four times larger than f/4.
 
Larger f-number let's in more light.
Err... no... larger APERTURE lets in more light, but a larger aperture is indicated by a lower f-number.

f1.4 is numerically smaller than f22, isn't it? Smaller f-numbers, bigger holes, more light. Bigger f-numbers, smaller holes, less light!
 
Err... no... larger APERTURE lets in more light, but a larger aperture is indicated by a lower f-number.

f1.4 is numerically smaller than f22, isn't it? Smaller f-numbers, bigger holes, more light. Bigger f-numbers, smaller holes, less light!

Fractions.

It's not f2.8, it's f/2.8 or 1:2.8.
 
Fractions.

It's not f2.8, it's f/2.8 or 1:2.8.

Ratio's are not Fractions. Fractions are un-done sums, providing a value. Ratios define constants of proportionality between two commodities.

A Ratio of 2:1 is not 1/2 or 0.5, its a ratio of 2:1.. may mean that you have half as many of commodity B as you do commodity A... but...

Eg: My grocer always displays twice as many apples as oranges.... how many oranges does he display...... does not equal half an orange..... doesn't work, does it? a half, or 0.5 is a specific value, NOT a ratio.

Meanwhile f-number is focal length over aperture diameter; focal length is as far as I know always larger than aperture diameter, there-fore even as a fraction, greater than 1... so quoted f-number isn't 1/f-number it Is the value on the dial.
 
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The f number gives the diameter of the hole in terms relative to the focal length. So an f/2 lens has a maximum hole size of focal length divided by 2; and putting in the "/" makes it clear that this is how it's worked out, and also makes it obvious that f/2 is bigger than f/4, just as 1/2 of a cake is more than 1/4 of a cake.

There are lenses wider than f/1; Canon made a production camera with an f/0.95 lens; the theoretical maximum aperture for a perfect lens is f/0.5.
 
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Talk about complicating matters for a newbie - while you are right, what he needs to remember is the larger f number on the dial the less light you get.
 
Agreed; but personally I find it easier if you know that its actually a fraction, and I still remember from primary school that with fractions the bigger the value on the bottom the smaller it really is. Knowing that makes it intuitive, rather than something you have to consciously remember.
 
Agreed; but personally I find it easier if you know that its actually a fraction, and I still remember from primary school that with fractions the bigger the value on the bottom the smaller it really is. Knowing that makes it intuitive, rather than something you have to consciously remember.

Your logic is good for ease of remembering - but a ratio still isn't a fraction (as per Mikes detailed description)
 
I agree that a ratio isn't a fraction. But I submit that f/22 is a fraction which defines the actual size of the aperture. If you want a ratio, it would be expressed as 1:22 which is how some lenses (all? I haven't checked) have the value engraved. But I never write it thus, and I can't recall anyone specifying the aperture as f:8 as part of exposure details. Very often the incorrect f8 (which is neither ratio nor fraction); but never as a ratio.
 
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Fractions.

It's not f2.8, it's f/2.8 or 1:2.8.

Using either a fraction to understand aperture has the advantage of being a direct relationship with the size of the hole which has a direct relationship with the amount to light getting to the sensor plane. So the fraction has a direct (not inverse) relationship with the light on the sensor.


I'm not sure where you get the half orange from - your example doesn't allow for it from the start, or it does if your greengrocer does indeed sell half oranges. But regardless, to find a half in the problem isn't me looking at it wrong.

When you say that ratios and fractions are non-equivalent, this is incorrect. I can take your ratio of apples and oranges example and convert that to a fraction to express that 1/3 of the fruit are oranges and 2/3 and apples. And 2/3 is twice as large as 1/3. Thus maintaining the ratio you set.

But, you are right in that it's not as easy as 1:2 is twice as large as 1:4.

oranges:apples
1:2
1/3 are oranges, 2/3 are apples
33.33% are oranges

If I play with the ratio
oranges:apples
1:4
1/5 are oranges, 4/5 are apples
20% are oranges

This is not half of the first example. But, the ratios can be converted into fractions without trouble.

(in case anyone wonders, 2:1 is twice as large as 1:2, 2:3 is twice as large as 1:4)


You're correct that my thinking in terms of ratios is a flawed logic when it comes to ease of understanding aperture. But your understanding of ratios appears as flawed as mine did (apples and oranges).


And fractions are a perfectly valid and easy way of understanding aperture. You even describe it as a fraction in your own explanation.


And no, aperture is not always larger than f/1. There are several well known examples of lenses with maximum apertures larger then f/1.
 
The way I remember with f stops is in terms of "tightness"...

Ie... F1, the inside of the lens is loose/open so all the light comes in... but the bigger number i get to.. say f22... the tighter it gets so less light comes in..


That is no technical explanation of what actually happens its just a bizzare way I was told which helped me understand it!
 
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I'm sure I saw an image which demonstrated it nicely which was great when I was first trying to get my head around the idea of apertures and f-stops.
 
Thanks for all the Answers, please don`t stop your explanations, I`m sure lots of Members are learning from this
 
effectively with that lens you should have it set at f8 you will find this is the prime setting for it and the sharpest for general shooting .extremely good little lens that shoots well above its price range and should be in everyones camera bag as a back up :thumbs::thumbs:
 
effectively with that lens you should have it set at f8 you will find this is the prime setting for it and the sharpest for general shooting .extremely good little lens that shoots well above its price range and should be in everyones camera bag as a back up :thumbs::thumbs:

I'm sorry but thats utter rubbish - with this lens they should set it to any apperture that fits the light and the effect theyy want to acheive. Keeping it set on f8 all the time is completely pointless
 
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