Experimenting with stand developing and cross processing C41 with E6.....

Solo man · 21 Feb 2014

So, having been shooting film for about 5 months, and developing for about six weeks now, and tried B&W, C41 and E6.... today I wanted to experiment.... and I wanted to know what happens when you develop C41 with E6..
So, I've cross processed a roll of Agfa Vista 200 with E6.... and stand developed.
The Agfa was shot at box speed....
Having been advised that it would give me a contrasty positive image, I opted to try and stand develop at the first step, to minimise excessive contrast initially...
So.... my method was as follows...
Temperature throughout was at 38 degrees...
Pre soak for 5 minutes
First developer was at a ratio of 1:9 (so, from my 1l mix of first developer, I took 50ml and added that to 450ml of water).... stand developed for 45 minutes, agitated initially for 10 seconds then a few agitations halfway through....
I then followed on with the normal E6 method(so 2 1/2 min wash after first developer, then colour developer for 6 min, then wash for 2 1/2, then blix for 6 min, then wash for 4 min, then stabiliser for 1 minute...)
I ended up with a positive 'green' negative.....
Which looks like so....

A few more from the roll, with a white balance correction....

steveo_mcg · 21 Feb 2014

It's done weird things to the dog, he looks large and brown but after you've adjusted it he's got small and black!

Solo man · 21 Feb 2014

steveo_mcg said:
It's done weird things to the dog, he looks large and brown but after you've adjusted it he's got small and black!

Lol!

Noah_ · 21 Feb 2014

I think this is an interesting way to experiment with film. As long as you're not held by preconceptions about what colour a photograph should be to be technically correct, you could produce some lovely results with the cross processing & white balance adjustments. I think my favourite is the second to last photograph with the purple tint to the out of focus areas, it works rather well!

s162216 · 21 Feb 2014

I once had a bit of fun with some outdated Kodak Ultra Max 800 by exposing it between 800 and 3200 variably across the roll, having it pushed 3 stops and cross processed in E-6. Some of the results were better than others, but all in all most of them actually came out surprisingly good. I got a quite nice one of my Grandma, which I shot at 3200 I think and it came back with a muted, almost pastel like colour balance (looks lovely projected) which suited the setting really quite well. I'll post a scan of it up in a while.

Noah_ · 21 Feb 2014

s162216 said:
I once had a bit of fun with some outdated Kodak Ultra Max 800 by exposing it between 800 and 3200 variably across the roll, having it pushed 3 stops and cross processed in E-6. Some of the results were better than others, but all in all most of them actually came out surprisingly good. I got a quite nice one of my Grandma, which I shot at 3200 I think and it came back with a muted, almost pastel like colour balance (looks lovely projected) which suited the setting really quite well. I'll post a scan of it up in a while.

Please do, I'd be interested to see!

Steve · 22 Feb 2014

I love this kind of experimentation with film and different chemicals and processes. Thanks for sharing, and look forward to seeing any future results

Solo man · 22 Feb 2014

Steve said:
I love this kind of experimentation with film and different chemicals and processes. Thanks for sharing, and look forward to seeing any future results

Thanks Steve....
I believe C41 can also be cross processed with E6 by replacing the first developer with Rodinal and stand developing that before continuing with the rest of the process....so, I may well have a bash at that too...

s162216 · 22 Feb 2014

Solo man said:
Thanks Steve....
I believe C41 can also be cross processed with E6 by replacing the first developer with Rodinal and stand developing that before continuing with the rest of the process....so, I may well have a bash at that too...

Appearently you can actually also process C-41 films by processing them in B&W, fixing and then using a hydrochloric acid and potassium dichromate solution (=nasty!) you can bleach them, and once exposed to light again re-process them in C-41 which results in low contrast negatives with a pastel like colour balance. I've never tried it myself as I don't do home colour processing, but I wonder if it would work with E-6 as well?

Solo man · 22 Feb 2014

s162216 said:
Appearently you can actually also process C-41 films by processing them in B&W, fixing and then using a hydrochloric acid and potassium dichromate solution (=nasty!) you can bleach them, and once exposed to light again re-process them in C-41 which results in low contrast negatives with a pastel like colour balance. I've never tried it myself as I don't do home colour processing, but I wonder if it would work with E-6 as well?

I think I've read something similar... but I reckon you need to do that in a darkroom?.

skysh4rk · 22 Feb 2014

I am following this thread with interest, as I see some potential in cross processing C41 in E6, especially if you can get some pastel-like colours.

The problem, as I understand it from my quick googling, is the orange mask of the film, which causes some serious colour cast problems. I wonder what would happen if you tried to use a C41 film without the orange mask for this sort of cross processing? I think Rollei make a colour film with a clear base.

Solo man · 23 Feb 2014

skysh4rk said:
I am following this thread with interest, as I see some potential in cross processing C41 in E6, especially if you can get some pastel-like colours.

The problem, as I understand it from my quick googling, is the orange mask of the film, which causes some serious colour cast problems. I wonder what would happen if you tried to use a C41 film without the orange mask for this sort of cross processing? I think Rollei make a colour film with a clear base.

Rollei make a slide film(Rollei colour reversal film) with a clear base which can be processed in C41.... not sure of a negative clear base film though....

skysh4rk · 23 Feb 2014

Solo man said:
Rollei make a slide film(Rollei colour reversal film) with a clear base which can be processed in C41.... not sure of a negative clear base film though....

They definitely do a C41 film with a clear base, but maybe it's a monochromatic film.

Solo man · 23 Feb 2014

RI, your link doesn't show up here in post, however it shows up in my email lol....
I've had a look....and it says "scanner suitable, works not so precipitously as a slide film;", does that imply it wouldn't work cross processed with E6?.

RaglanSurf · 23 Feb 2014

I'm so impressed you've gone from dev'ing newbie to cross-processing in the space of a few weeks and the results you're getting are excellent.

skysh4rk · 23 Feb 2014

Solo man said:
RI, your link doesn't show up here in post, however it shows up in my email lol....
I've had a look....and it says "scanner suitable, works not so precipitously as a slide film;", does that imply it wouldn't work cross processed with E6?.

Sorry, I think I linked to a monochromatic film accidentally, so tried to erase link. I'm not sure about its cross processing capabilities.

In any regard, I'm almost certain I'd read about a Rollei C41 film with a clear base that was optimised for scanning. I'm away for the weekend and using my iPhone, so can't find it at the moment.

Solo man · 23 Feb 2014

skysh4rk said:
Sorry, I think I linked to a monochromatic film accidentally, so tried to erase link. I'm not sure about its cross processing capabilities.

In any regard, I'm almost certain I'd read about a Rollei C41 film with a clear base that was optimised for scanning. I'm away for the weekend and using my iPhone, so can't find it at the moment.

No, you were correct initially, what you linked to was the Rollei DIGIBASE® CN 200 which is an "un-mask colour negative film – high-releasing, highly sensitive panchromatic negative film, for colour and B&W prints suitable.".....

s162216 · 23 Feb 2014

skysh4rk said:
They definitely do a C41 film with a clear base, but maybe it's a monochromatic film.

The C-41 film is called Rollei Digibase CN-200 Pro, its derived from a similar Agfa emulsion and is coated on an entirely clear base. It has quite muted colours in comparison to most films, and is very grainy for a 200 speed film (more like an older 400). The actual 'ease' of scanning is slightly deceptive though really as the negs are actually a more 'clear cyan' colour than' clear' and I found it was still easier to get better results if I locked the film base colour in Vuescan.

See here for some I shot a few years ago (I got a roll by accident with a camera): http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/show-us-yer-film-shots-then.53681/page-95#post-3237370

Not many places appear to sell it now though (in the UK at least). Note that you need to differentiate it from the similarly named Rollei Digibase CR-200 Pro which is an E6 emulsion (actually Agfachrome RSX II 200 Pro)

Solo man · 23 Feb 2014

RaglanSurf said:
I'm so impressed you've gone from dev'ing newbie to cross-processing in the space of a few weeks and the results you're getting are excellent.

Thank you Nick..... it's all been pretty straight forward so far..... and I think I've been lucky that it's all worked as it should...

Solo man · 23 Feb 2014

s162216 said:
The C-41 film is called Rollei Digibase CN-200 Pro, its derived from a similar Agfa emulsion and is coated on an entirely clear base. It has quite muted colours in comparison to most films, and is very grainy for a 200 speed film (more like an older 400). The actual 'ease' of scanning is slightly deceptive though really as the negs are actually a more 'clear cyan' colour than' clear' and I found it was still easier to get better results if I locked the film base colour in Vuescan.

See here for some I shot a few years ago (I got a roll by accident with a camera): http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/show-us-yer-film-shots-then.53681/page-95#post-3237370

Not many places appear to sell it now though (in the UK at least). Note that you need to differentiate it from the similarly named Rollei Digibase CR-200 Pro which is an E6 emulsion (actually Agfachrome RSX II 200 Pro)

Thanks for the link Samuel..... it looks like it would do well cross processed... worth a try.

norters · 23 Feb 2014

Great work and thanks for sharing your processes. I've been slacking this last few months and I intend to jump back in soon. I have some mixed c41 chems that I haven't used for over six months that I fancy sticking a roll of e6 in just for the giggles!