Estate cars: opinions please...

specialman

specialman

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Pat MacInnes
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Gotta chop my 155,000 mile Volvo S60 D5 in for an estate to lug the family and my fishing kit around

I'm getting 52-55mpg from my Volvo so I need something comparable on fuel economy for the daily 100-mile commute. I'm limiting my budget to £6,500, possibly £7,000 and that includes the part-ex price that I vet for the Volvo (which I reckon is about £1,500 max).

Up to £7,000 gives me a decent choice of diesel estates; Passat, ST Mondeo, new shape Laguna, high-mileage V70, SAAB 9-5 (etc)…

Official consumption figures seem all over the shop when it comes to cars - my S60 has a combined mpg of 42mpg but I'm getting way more than that on a brim-to-brim - so i'm kind of taking them with a slight pinch of salt.

Anyway, what are people's opinions in terms of reliability/known issues/economy on the following cars, which are the ones I've (so far) narrowed it down to:
  • Honda Accord 2.2 i-CTDI (2003-2008)
  • Saab 9-5 1.9 TiD vector sport (facelift model)
  • Saab 9-3 TiD vector sport (120bhp or 150bhp)
  • Volvo V70 D5 circa 04/05/06 (163 or 185 - is there a noticeable difference?)
  • Volvo V50 2.0 diesel 'sport'
  • Mondeo ST TDCi 2.2
  • Passat 140 2.0 TDi 'sport'
  • Laguna 2.0 DCi 150
Some are more 'alternative' choices (the swedes in particular) which kind of suit me, although I don't mind getting a bland rep-mobile. All the above have decent kit and nice cabins.

I'm searching for cars with manual gearboxes – I'm not convinced an automatic box will be as economical - although with the Passat there seems to be a few of the DSG models available; is this just a manual minus the clutch pedal or is it a full auto?

I like the look of 520d and A6 2.0 TDi but although reasonable prices exist, I'm worried that these 'premium' brands carry a premium price tag when it comes to repairs.

Also, I'm looking at cars up to 100,000 although anything above 60,000 miles has to have had the cam belt changed. I'm led to believe the Mondeo and Accord are chain driven so less prone to failure than a standard cam belt (??)

Are DPF's to be considered? I have a mate who had no end of issues with an Octavia VRs throng up warnings and going into limp mode as a result of the DPF requiring a reset. Are there notable cars that suffer DPF issues or is it just a total lottery?

In terms of overall value-for-money, I could go down the route of getting MPV like a C5 Grand Picasso or a Mazda 5 but these are totally left-field ideas that I'm not 100% sure about so will be on the back-burner.

Just after some general advice from owners of the above cars, or suggestions as to cars I haven't listed :)
 
I've just bought a mazda6 estate - very impressed with it.

From your list the Mondeo is the clear winner. Passats are slightly expensive for what they are, wouldnt touch an older Laguna, poor reliability.

Older Octavias have an issue with the throttle pedal breaking on a weld, needing replacement.
 
Erase any thought of anything French. Add the toyota avensis estate in.

Check out Honest John's car reviews for each car and check out recall levels.

Also consider Honda CRV.

BMW have had issues with chain failures on that sort of age car so I'd avoid those too.

If the volvo has been good then another volvo seems like the most sensible choice.
 
audi is essentially VW so repairs shouldnt be that much from a VW specialist rather than dealer.

ive got the 2.0 16v TDi PD140 lump in my Golf Plus and its a nice motor.
 
Skoda, Skoda or just maybe a Skoda would be my choice.

I changed to an Octavia from the 9-5 and it's all over a better car IMO. I'm on my second now and have the diesel DSG. The DSG is full auto with spooky twin auto clutch system and paddle shift for when the need arrises (it never does except maybe on snow). Floor it and it will climb from 1st to 6th without your even noticing gear changes.

BTW I have the VrS. It's possible other Octavias aren't as much fun to drive.

This should explain DSG nicely :)

 
Byker28i said:
I've just bought a mazda6 estate - very impressed with it.
Click to expand...

The last shape before the brand-brand new one? Seen a few of these but they have miles but they look nicely equipped and large. Do Mazda still share with Ford?

Byker28i said:
...wouldnt touch an older Laguna, poor reliability.
Click to expand...

Was looking at the new(er) shape, the 2007 onwards model…. they look nicely equipped and large, but there's always that nagging doubt about French cars being a bit like buying a cardboard bomb shelter.
 
srichards said:
Erase any thought of anything French. Add the toyota avensis estate in.

Check out Honest John's car reviews for each car and check out recall levels.

Also consider Honda CRV.

If the volvo has been good then another volvo seems like the most sensible choice.
Click to expand...

I do love Volvos, especially the V70, but they hold a premium. But I know how reliable they are….

CRV is either too expensive for the Mk2 or I get a Mk1, which IMO is just too old fashioned for my taste.

RE: Avensis - seen a few (namely the T180 D4D) and they look to have great reliability but look a tad boring and underwhelming inside. Do they carry on the legendary Toyota reliability?
 
I had a Passat estate for years would load it to the gunnell's with kit, full size back drop rolls go in no problem, so I would vote for the Passat or an Octavia.

The 140PS engine is a good one and reliable but not as bulletproof as the older 1.9TDi.
 
octavia is just a passat or A4 anyway with different shell and slightly different interior, the chassis and power plant/transmission are all the same. i think my golf plus shares this chassis too.

the 2.0 PD140 feels snappier than my old 1.9 PD130.
 
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From VOSA. There's 16:

# Launch DateRecalls NumberMakeModel(s)ConcernVIN StartVIN EndBuild StartBuild End
1 19/04/2010R/2010/043CITROENC3 & DS3loss of driveVF7******AW507447 VF******AA551904
2 07/07/2010R/2010/076CITROENC3 & DS3front axle may detachVF7******AW500469VF7******AW54145705/01/201002/06/2010
3 16/09/2010R/2010/136CITROENC3 & DS3bonnet may be insecureVF7******9W505271VF7******AW54909023/12/200923/06/2010
4 22/09/2010R/2010/146CITROENC3 & DS3fuel may leakVF7******9W505047VF7******AW546614
5 02/09/2011R/2011/120CITROENDS3, C3 (A51) & C3 Picassoengine may cut outVF7******AA679722 VF7******BW563946 07/01/201123/05/2011
6 11/10/2011R/2011/137CITROENC3 and DS3airbag may not deploy correctlyVF7******BW590603VF7******BW59380919/07/201119/07/2011
7 24/11/2011R/2011/156CITROENC3 an DS3engine may cut outVF7******AA567290VF7******AW53652907/04/201021/05/2010
8 09/12/2011R/2011/165CITROENC3 and DS3suspension fixings may loosenVF7******BW577917VF7******BW60274922/06/201113/09/2011
9 25/01/2012R/2012/005CITROENC3 and DS3engine may cut outVF7******AA678711VF7******AA68134802/11/201009/11/2010
10 01/05/2012R/2012/062CITROENC3, DS3 & C3 Picassoengine may cut outVF7******AT570640VF7******BW55125208/11/201029/04/2011
[ 1 2 ]

# Launch DateRecalls NumberMakeModel(s)ConcernVIN StartVIN EndBuild StartBuild End
11 06/07/2012R/2012/074CITROENC3, C3 PICASSO & DS3abs/esp may not operate correctlyVF7******BA568443VF7******CW51455507/06/201127/01/2012
12 09/07/2012R/2012/076CITROENC3, C3 Picasso & DS3engine may cut outVF7******AA670051VF7******BA56218221/10/201019/05/2011
13 24/10/2012R/2012/123CITROENC3 & DS3wheel bolts may become looseVF7******CW576379VF7******CW58389509/07/201228/08/2012
14 14/11/2012R/2012/129CITROENC1,C3 Pluriel, C3 II, C3, DS3 and Nemoengine may failVF7******89739125VF7******AA64305226/05/201026/08/2010
15 07/06/2013R/2013/068CITROENC3 & DS3rear screen may detachVF7******DW535215VF7******DW54278125/03/201326/03/2013
16 26/02/2014R/2014/025CITROENBerlingo, DS3, C3, C3 Picasso, C4 and C4 Picassofuel may leak and create fire riskVF7******EJ527141VF7******EY50489907/01/201415/01/2014
[ 1 2 ]
 
neil_g said:
octavia is just a passat or A4 anyway with different shell and slightly different interior, the chassis and power plant/transmission are all the same. i think my golf plus shares this chassis too.
Click to expand...

Apart from the price, obvs ;)
 
specialman said:
The last shape before the brand-brand new one? Seen a few of these but they have miles but they look nicely equipped and large. Do Mazda still share with Ford?

Was looking at the new(er) shape, the 2007 onwards model…. they look nicely equipped and large, but there's always that nagging doubt about French cars being a bit like buying a cardboard bomb shelter.
Click to expand...

I was going to buy a 3-4 year old one, but got suckered into the newer skydrive version by the missus. The older ones share the mondeo platform I heard.
There's several around with starship mileage on them, so they seem to do the miles ok.
 
neil_g said:
i found octavias (vrs) to be priced higher than passats and a4 (all estate variants) recently.
Click to expand...

Blimey that's shocking.

Comparing like with like? The VrS is what VW call a GTi. And Audi probably call something in German.
 
Just to clarify, Ive got a DSG golf, and there are no steering wheel paddles. It just stands for direct shift gearbox and works like any other automatic would with Park, Reverse, Drive etc. As already said it does use a double clutch thingy to make the changes up or down smooth. The steering wheel paddles are optional extras.
 
DorsetDude said:
Just to clarify, Ive got a DSG golf, and there are no steering wheel paddles. It just stands for direct shift gearbox and works like any other automatic would with Park, Reverse, Drive etc. As already said it does use a double clutch thingy to make the changes up or down smooth. The steering wheel paddles are optional extras.
Click to expand...

Optional on Golfs. Standard on Octavia VrS ;)
 
DorsetDude said:
But DSG does not mean steering wheel paddles.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - I get you now ;) Had my head in DNS settings earlier......

Yeah, for example some Smarts have paddles and trust me they don't have DSG :D

DSG = very nice, smooth, fast version of automatic.
Paddles = gimmick (though handy on snow because you can change gear without taking your hand off the wheel)
Skoda VrS = awesome (though if the Passat GTi really is cheaper I'd go for that)
Saab 9-5 = very comfy and safe but ultimately a bit thirsty and questionable electrics
 
I have a Mondeo ST TDCi, although mines a hatchback. I have had it for over 3.5yrs, done around 50k miles and haven't regretted a second of it, still puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. In standard form I was getting a over 700 miles from 12 gallons when most of my driving was motorway or dual carriageways. No dpf to worry about. Egr valves can be a problem. dual mass flywheels can be a problem too but depends on how the car is driven. I managed to kill my clutch slave cylinder at 91k miles, but dmf was only just starting to break down. Had it replaced along with slave cylinder and clutch anyway just to save on future labour. Injectors can also wear out but that's more likely on 2.0 TDCi engines which isn't available in the ST model anyway. Worth noting the 2.2 TDCi Titanium X models are generally cheaper than the ST model. Unless the ST had the Recaro seat option fitted, both cars share the same half leather sports seats although the Tit X front seats are cooled and heated whilst the ST seats are just heated.
 
2.2 honda engine will go forever. I nearly bought an estate with the adac system. Lack of boot space put me off
Mondeo is the reps favorite motorway mile muncher. I've rented one and slept in the boot on a road trip
 
Octavia Estate? We have one and it fits twin pram and all associated carp that goes with it... and room for more... basically it is a passat in an old frock!
 
I have a friendly VAG expert mechanic, he's full of useful info, which I'm happy to pass on.

He reckons that;
the previous Passat model was not up to standard - not particularly reliable
DSG gearboxes are a nightmare if they go wrong
the PD diesels are almost unbrakeable if you keep decent oil in them, CR a little more fragile
the cars integrated software, that controls ICE & phones etc, is regularly updated & not backwards compatible, causing sound cars to be financially written off

FWIW I bought an Octavia vRS tdi - Golf based, not Passat - great to drive & 50mpg. No regrets.
 
Beware of 4-5yr old diesel Passats. There have been wiring loom failures on cars fitted with peizo fuel injectors. This has resulted in uncontrolled fuelling resulting in engines blowing up.
 
Comfortably Numb said:
I have a friendly VAG expert mechanic, he's full of useful info, which I'm happy to pass on.

He reckons that;
the previous Passat model was not up to standard - not particularly reliable
DSG gearboxes are a nightmare if they go wrong
the PD diesels are almost unbrakeable if you keep decent oil in them, CR a little more fragile
the cars integrated software, that controls ICE & phones etc, is regularly updated & not backwards compatible, causing sound cars to be financially written off

FWIW I bought an Octavia vRS tdi - Golf based, not Passat - great to drive & 50mpg. No regrets.
Click to expand...

You can use cheap oil it just has to be the correct oil VW call it PD oil its VW505.01 spec.

I believe the below was a few '000 miles with mobil 1 oil

For the non Mechanics...They are meant to be much more pointy



 
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I've got a Mondeo tdi estate on an 05 plate that we've had since september. Its a good car and much nice to drive than our w reg 2l diesil vectra hatch was.

As for newer cars I am a self employed car valeter and from that perspective I think audi are the best, accept for one thing. German cars have a rubbery coating on the interior plastics. This can come off and when it does it looks rubbish. BMW wheels corrode if you don't keep them clean and brake dust seems to stick to them the most, particularly behind the spokes. Keep away from the mercs, I think they rust as bad as fords and their wheels are bad to for brake dust. I don't see many volvos but have always been impressed with the ones I do. Good solid cars with a good finish. All the jap stuff is good. Keep away from French and Italian. Ocativas are good cars to, as good as passats but cheaper I think. I spoke to a customer who has a really old persatt with 350k on the clock.
 
Comfortably Numb said:
I have a friendly VAG expert mechanic, he's full of useful info, which I'm happy to pass on.

He reckons that;
the previous Passat model was not up to standard - not particularly reliable
DSG gearboxes are a nightmare if they go wrong
the PD diesels are almost unbrakeable if you keep decent oil in them, CR a little more fragile
the cars integrated software, that controls ICE & phones etc, is regularly updated & not backwards compatible, causing sound cars to be financially written off
Click to expand...


I would give VW a wide birth they have lots of common faults across there model range.

ESP faults
Duel mass flywheel failure
Cruise control faults
Injectors failure
Cam chain tensioners on the CR
EGV faults
Broken rear suspension springs
Fuel pump failure
Sensor and wiring issues, these can be real pain to track down and fix.

As above DCG are a money pit when they go wrong. VW reputation of building reliable cars is not what it was. I will not be owning another.. I have touran golf based 1.9tdi pd

Audi part prices are not too bad but the main dealer labour rate is a killer £110 per hour. Audi use a lot of VAG common parts so some of the VW faults above are common to Audi, seat and skoda. if you have one of the above faults Vag may discount some of the repair as good will if MDS and book is stamped.

Honda Accord 2.2 i-CTDI (2003-2008) are not bad but check the cast manifold for cracks as its a weak point, I think there is revised part now being fitted.

toyota avensis estate might be boring but a reliable buy.

Other ideas: seat exeo which is an older Audi a4 rebadged or X type jag which has lots of ford parts
 
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I bought one of these :)
mazda6-wagon-gallery_exterior_uk.jpg
 
In my eyes, there has only ever been the one proper estate car and it was this . . .

1979_ford_cortina_1600gl_estate_by_doctorreplen-d56qk8s.jpg


When my dad had one of those in the late '70s and I was 10 years old at the time, I've always said to myself that as soon as I can drive and afford to buy a car then I would get myself one of those.
However, by the time I have been able to drive and afford to by a car in the '90s (I was very slow on that front), the Cortina had long since went out of production and instead I settled for a MkVI Escort estate (diesel) and that was a handy workhorse of a car.

Sorry for going off topic . . . again.
 
I currently have 2 Honda accord 2.2cdti estates:

2005 executive, 5 speed 155,000m - going to the Alps in 3 weekends time with it. LOVE it -
&
2007 sport, 6 speed 250,000m - have had to change the battery on it & will also need a clutch very soon. Bought it at 220,000m 3 years ago.

Upsides;
very very fuel efficient, get over 500 a tank on a run @ 85 !!!
great on a motorway, Quiet,
well speced,
comfortable
reliable,
power tailgate is AWESOME.... You will think its just a gadget until you come to the car loaded up & its raining hard...

Downside:
VERY VERY LONG.... corners are not the easiest to see.

I would buy another tomorrow.
 
Early 2007 they all changed to a 6 speed gearbox.
 
V70 with the D5 is very reliable. My dad used to maintain a chauffeur fleet with around 250 of them. The D5 has biblical amounts of torque. This coupled with the weight of a V70 means they are hard on brakes and tyres if driven hard.
V50 isn't really big enough to count as an 'estate'. It's not square enough at the back!
Mondeo I believe that age had issues with injectors?
The 1.9 VW diesel is a solid engine. VW have common faults, so do all the other manufacturers. I have been very happy with the PD130 in my Ibiza. They do need the proper VW spec oil, and need it changing at the correct intervals. They are hard on their oil.
The Octavia prices have gone up because people clocked on to them being a 'bargain VW' then they became quite fashionable and prices reflect this!
If the Saab uses the vauxhall 1.9 diesel, they seem to fall into two camps. Some run forever and a day with no issues. Others are constantly breaking, My mum's zafira was the latter group.
 
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