Elinchrom - The Game Changes...

Tony101

Tony101

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...Next week.

So, any predictions (purely for fun!)?

Will it be truly revolutionary or mildly evolutionary?
 
Possibly some kind of Elinchrom equivalent to the Profoto B1?
 
I'm sure that it will be a good product, and I wish them well with it. My guess is that it will be the IGBT flash that I was told about 3 1/2 years ago, and if that's the case it will be a game of catch up, rather than a game changer.
 
UaeExile said:
Possibly some kind of Elinchrom equivalent to the Profoto B1?
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•
+1
…maybe not equivalent to but directly in competition with!
 
Saw that video linked on POTN, it's the update to the Ranger RX Speed AS pack isn't it?

Hopefully they'll tack a few more abbreviations on the end so I'm completely lost whenever I look at it.
 
Well it's definitely IGBT, and it's possibly portable.

So an ETTL quadra ranger then?

Aiming at the Profoto B1 square on, but as everyone else has said, they're entering a market rather than changing the game.
 
simonbarker said:
Not a direction I expected of Elinchrom...
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Me neither. Elinchrom has no expertise in IGBT, but they have a lot in conventional studio flash and there's still plenty of life left in that if you want moderately fast flash durations but lots of power. You can strike a nice balance that way, though it closes the door on both proper high speed sync and Auto-TTL exposure control.
 
HoppyUK said:
Me neither. Elinchrom has no expertise in IGBT, but they have a lot in conventional studio flash and there's still plenty of life left in that if you want moderately fast flash durations but lots of power. You can strike a nice balance that way, though it closes the door on both proper high speed sync and Auto-TTL exposure control.
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Are you trying to imply that because they are not known to have expertise in IGBT that they cannot release a product based on IGBT? Maybe they have been working on it for some time. Its not unknown for companies to develop new products for which they were previously not known for making. They announced a partnership with Phottix and Sekonic some time back. Phottix have studio light products that do HSS and TTL. Maybe they have simply bought the expertise in.

Regards...
 
IGBT stands for “Isolated-gate bipolar transistor.”
 
Finste said:
Are you trying to imply that because they are not known to have expertise in IGBT that they cannot release a product based on IGBT? Maybe they have been working on it for some time. Its not unknown for companies to develop new products for which they were previously not known for making. They announced a partnership with Phottix and Sekonic some time back. Phottix have studio light products that do HSS and TTL. Maybe they have simply bought the expertise in.

Regards...
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Yes, I agree. Elinchrom could produce an IGBT product at the drop of a hat if they were so inclined. It's just that I'm not so sure they are, only a hunch, and I'm not clear what new/better they would bring to such a party with Godox/Phottix etc at the lower end (on price) and Profoto at the other.

On the other hand, a revamped and more powerful Quadra, 600Ws-ish, with properly fast flash durations and all the other latest features, would be well received and plays to Elinchrom's strengths - both in terms of technology and market position. I could also be completely wrong ;)
 
LIKE, I am after this asap :D


edit: I'm on the case, and whats worse is speedgraphic are only just up the road haha
 
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This is interesting, though nothing really new. It's tail-hypersync technique that's been around for decades, apart from the new flash head that's optimised for a long flash duration (ironically, that's what's needed) with a relatively flat curve on the oscilloscope trace. The difference will be on how well it works - basically how much effective brightness you get (inevitably, a big drop from normal sync mode) vs the fading of exposure up the frame (at least a stop, maybe more - also inevitable).

It should be pretty good for outdoor subjects in ambient light, when the fading of the flash exposure is masked by the ambient light. While tail-hypersync is not new, it's always been somewhat flawed and usually requires some specialist knowledge and faffing around. I'm sure Elinchrom has done a good job on that, making it much easier and more effective :)
 
I was about to make a sarcastic comment about it being a lot of fuss over a radio trigger but in fairness it's a fairly big upgrade over the old Skyport triggers from what I can see and the real time power settings is a nice touch and missing from Profoto.
 
I'm looking to add the new heads and trigger, let's see how it pans out in the field.
 
mike weeks said:
So basically rebadged Phottix LASO triggers, the giveaway is that they use the term OSD

Mike
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Not so sure about that. If you get the Skyport USB and plug it into a computer and use their software, Skyport is a very sophisticated system with two way communication between controller and strobe. I think what they have done is create a controller that has the full power of Skyport accessible without a computer. And added a bit more like HSS. I don't doubt the influence of Phottix or that it contains Phottix technology in addition to Skyport (why partner otherwise) but I do think its a bit much to simply call it a rebadge of something else. They deserve a bit more credit than that.

Regards...
 
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Yes, certainly not a rebadged Phottix Laso or Odin.

We really need to be clear about what technology is being used here, and the terminology. Unfortunately, there are no formal definitions, but my understanding is that HSS High Speed Sync refers to rapid pulsing of an IGBT flash (the new Elinchrom is not IGBT). The other method for getting above x-sync speed is known as tail-hypersync, which is quite an accurately descriptive term, but it's also known as hypersync, or Over-Drive Sync, Super-Sync, and a few other terms I can't recall off the top of my head.

This confusion, and I don't think Elinchrom's marketing material so far is at all clear on this, will lead some to expect something different.
 
I agree, a little missleading the term HSS, tail end sync would be more clear, also the clue is it's an upgraded head to be used with the range of power units, guessing the flash tube being the main change, seems they are selling it as an upgrade according to speedgraphic.
 
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Finste said:
Not so sure about that. If you get the Skyport USB and plug it into a computer and use their software, Skyport is a very sophisticated system with two way communication between controller and strobe. I think what they have done is create a controller that has the full power of Skyport accessible without a computer. And added a bit more like HSS. I don't doubt the influence of Phottix or that it contains Phottix technology in addition to Skyport (why partner otherwise) but I do think its a bit much to simply call it a rebadge of something else. They deserve a bit more credit than that.

Regards...
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Get a picture of each side by side and would explain the tie-up with Phottix as they have some pretty need triggers.

Laso-Transmitter-v1-LR.jpg


skyporths.jpg


I do not think I am being disingenuous at all

Mike
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, certainly not a rebadged Phottix Laso or Odin.

We really need to be clear about what technology is being used here, and the terminology. Unfortunately, there are no formal definitions, but my understanding is that HSS High Speed Sync refers to rapid pulsing of an IGBT flash (the new Elinchrom is not IGBT). The other method for getting above x-sync speed is known as tail-hypersync, which is quite an accurately descriptive term, but it's also known as hypersync, or Over-Drive Sync, Super-Sync, and a few other terms I can't recall off the top of my head.

This confusion, and I don't think Elinchrom's marketing material so far is at all clear on this, will lead some to expect something different.
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Basically they are saying that the new heads have a longer flash duration to allow the higher speeds sync i.e. this is tail sync and the Phottix tie in is the use of the term over drive sync. The way some of the comments are being made is that this gives far greater power than would be available from HSS. The only light that I have been able to both on is the AD360 and exposure at 1/800 in either HSS or Long Tail were remarkably similar so would love to be able to do some real world 1/8000 tests to see how much if any advantage this new head offers - a direct comparison would be something like the Phottix Indra 500 or B! or maybe the AD360 could be in the mix - now that would be an interesting test Richard>

Mike
 
Body looks the same but firmware looks compleatly different. I can see the theory of tail end sync over HSS, given HSS is limited buy power stored in the systems capacitors perhaps they have discovered significantly higher power output v HSS in the new heads? Going on what they claim I am also keen to get one and try it out. A mate of mine has a B1 and B2 so I will get to compare them side by side.
 
arthurbikemad said:
Body looks the same but firmware looks compleatly different. I can see the theory of tail end sync over HSS, given HSS is limited buy power stored in the systems capacitors perhaps they have discovered significantly higher power output v HSS in the new heads? Going on what they claim I am also keen to get one and try it out. A mate of mine has a B1 and B2 so I will get to compare them side by side.
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But with tail end sync you also get lower power because it uses the flatter end of the pulse to get even light over the whole frame. I believe they are comparing their tail end sync with normal flashgun HSS instead of the much higher power devices such as the B1 or Indra - time will tell

Mike
 
Indeed, they have some bold claims over IGBT HSS. Look forward to seeing some comparisons.
 
mike weeks said:
Basically they are saying that the new heads have a longer flash duration to allow the higher speeds sync i.e. this is tail sync and the Phottix tie in is the use of the term over drive sync. The way some of the comments are being made is that this gives far greater power than would be available from HSS. The only light that I have been able to both on is the AD360 and exposure at 1/800 in either HSS or Long Tail were remarkably similar so would love to be able to do some real world 1/8000 tests to see how much if any advantage this new head offers - a direct comparison would be something like the Phottix Indra 500 or B! or maybe the AD360 could be in the mix - now that would be an interesting test Richard>

Mike
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Yes, a very interesting test :) Elinchrom does sound quite bullish about power output, but it's actually difficult to put hard numbers to either tail-hypersync or HSS. Impossible actually - the effective exposure varies with the camera/shutter model, the exact sync timing, and of course the shutter speed. But I agree with you Mike, exposures can't be significantly different to HSS, not by more than a fraction of a stop at best, because of the limitations imposed by the focal plane shutter and its cycle time. Pocket Wizard has got some clever tweaks there, that can make a significant difference with some camera/flash combos, but that's only possible with IGBT control.

I've never been a big fan of tail-hypersync because of the inevitable drawbacks, but mostly because it's hard to do well. But if Elinchrom has managed to iron out the downsides with a custom-designed flash unit (I think that's a world first) and made it easy plug-in and play, then this could be a very handy new weapon :)
 
juggler said:
.. and the video makes it look as though the triggers support long tail sync as well as HSS. Currently only Canon & Nikon with Sony to follow, and 2nd curtain sync is only available to Canon for some reason.
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2nd curtain sync support on the trigger is required for Canon. Nikon bodies will do 2nd curtain sync with any trigger/cable.
 
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