Elinchrom Quadra - automotive based shots

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fastworldimages

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Ryan
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Ok so the quadra is something im toying with.

Mostly small and because I also want to use it for sports based portrait work (the flash duration with A head in B socket)...

I am not worried about only 120 shots off a battery, as ill have a spare, and as discussed ages ago have ruled out the lencarta safari due to the flash duration.

At only a 400w punch though I am questioning if it would have the punch needed to light a car from several feet away in decent daylight. (i understand it will struggle to overpower it).

I have looked at the normal ranger RX due to the power, but for the price of a ranger an 2 heads/2 batterys I could have two quadras which gives me more flexibility in light positioning without massive expensive cables...

:thinking:
 
There's plenty of power to light the car, no question about that. If you ever feel like you are running out, increasing the ISO or reducing the f/number will sort it.

The question is the level of the flash compared to daylight, and that depends on the distance of the lights and also the type of reflectors, not to mention how sunny it is. Shoot through brollies are very inefficient (too much light bounced out of the back), softboxes are better and a silver brolly will be brightest.

Out of interest, I just tried it outside, using an Elinchrom D-Lite 2 (200ws) and 70cm Rotalux double-diffuser SB. At 3m/10ft I got f/8+0.5 ISO400, and that was with even coverage to within half a stop over a 4m width. With 400ws you would get another stop on top of that, so half way between f/8 and f/11. Cut the distance in half and you'd get another two stops again but I'm guessing that might be too close.

Sunny-16 rule of thumb says bright sun would be 1/200sec at f/22 ISO400 so in that scenario you would be 2.5 stops behind the daylight. That kind of gap would need the light fitting with a small reflector and moved close, which would be horrible. But if it's a bit overcast and cloudy, I think you'd be in with a very good chance.
 
Despite the Quadra being a nice little, mobile package, the power output for what your trying to achieve will most likely disappoint IMO.

If you want to shoot large subjects like cars and if you want to shoot them at any time of day then I'd save the pennies and invest in much more power.

Plus, I think, generally, the modifiers used to shoot cars are fairly large, such as 1.5 to 2 meter softboxes, striplights or octoboxes at least maybe? A quadra unit may have trouble filling this larger diffusers with light and going the distance :shrug:

I'd imagine that you need a fair space to breath when shooting an object as large as a car and also including the environment as well.

Ranger head and packs are more expensive but will certainly have far more potential given the outline of your requirements.

Take a look at Tim Wallace, he's endorsed by Elinchrom, you may be able to find out some tips and tricks.
 
Thanks both of you.

Regarding big diffusers, I dont know why everyone from outside the uk seems to say they are a must, when I have been to a few shoots with mates cars for magazines where bare heads were used.

I wont be in a studio with the car, but on location etc...

Im a tad worried about the quadras power still, but 2x quadras would give alot more freedom to position lights etc... Which is making me sway that way. (ranger RX leads are expensive + sap power).....

Hmmmmm
 
HoppyUK said:
There's plenty of power to light the car, no question about that. If you ever feel like you are running out, increasing the ISO or reducing the f/number will sort it.

The question is the level of the flash compared to daylight, and that depends on the distance of the lights and also the type of reflectors, not to mention how sunny it is. Shoot through brollies are very inefficient (too much light bounced out of the back), softboxes are better and a silver brolly will be brightest.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Increasing the ISO will maintain the ratio between flash and ambient so will achieve nothing. The only way of making the flash more powerful in relative terms will be to use a higher shutter speed, which means using a MF camera with a between lens shutter.
Moving a light closer is of course an option but as you say will not produce the quality of light the OP wants.
If he needs both reasonable output and short flash duration the only answer I can think of is Profoto.
 
fastworldimages said:
Regarding big diffusers, I dont know why everyone from outside the uk seems to say they are a must, when I have been to a few shoots with mates cars for magazines where bare heads were used.

I wont be in a studio with the car, but on location etc...
Click to expand...

Sorry mate but I haven't clue what you mean there.

Of course you can use bare heads but no-one would rely on bare heads 100% of the time. Eventually you will need larger, softer light sources both on location and in the studio.

Did you have a look at Wallaces work?
 
fastworldimages said:
yes in the link a few of the back images are just with a ranger Rx and 2 heads.
Click to expand...

Emphasis on 'a few'. :lol:

Wallace is more than likely endorsed by or at least a bit of an ambassador to Elinchrom, he won't be experiencing any shortages of Elinchrom gear anytime soon, he seems to do a little more than just 'helping' to shift their gear :).

Of course, It's up to you mate but I'd invest in more power than 400ws and have more open mind RE large, good quality diffusers.
You can bet you bottom dollar you'll need them at some point lighting large objects and areas :thumbs:
 
The issue is that at the moment is it more finanically sensible to buy a quadra twin head kit, and then in the future buy a second, so have alot more freedom as to where the lights can go etc....

plus the fact with the more expensive RX the skyport system isnt integrated so theres more expense there as opposed to just getting a trigger...

Im tearing my hair up over the decision lol! Buying lenses is easy :D
 
fastworldimages said:
Thanks both of you.

Regarding big diffusers, I dont know why everyone from outside the uk seems to say they are a must, when I have been to a few shoots with mates cars for magazines where bare heads were used.

I wont be in a studio with the car, but on location etc...

Im a tad worried about the quadras power still, but 2x quadras would give alot more freedom to position lights etc... Which is making me sway that way. (ranger RX leads are expensive + sap power).....

Hmmmmm
Click to expand...

Edit: oops, crossed post with everybody while I make a cuppa :lol: But the OP doesn't want to overpower the daylight...? ;)

I think there's a major difference between an editorial magazine shoot and a mega-budget advertsing shoot that Tim Wallace might be doing, Hasselblad an' all. Those massive softboxes plus the need to get moody dark backgrounds in bright daylight are the reason you need so much power and if you'll be using something smaller and more practical, for fill-in plus highlights plus sparkle with the daylight doing most of the work, then I think the Quadras should be fine.

The problem will be if you want to do battle with bright daylight and need to win. You won't with the Quadras. To do that, you need a colossal amount of power and giant softboxes to get really high quality light. I've been on loads of editorial magazine car shoots and nobody even attempts it.

To set your mind at rest, I'm sure if you buy from somewhere like The Flash Centre they will let you try something to reassure you or, given the amount of money you'll be spending, hire it for a day or two.
 
hoppy - flash center im planning on going to this week in london to have a chat.

Obviously its easy people just saying go profoto etc... but if you can survive on a 1500 set up compaired to a set up 2/3times more its obvious which way most people will go, espec in the current economic climate.

its mostly editorial based shooting id be intending to go anyway, mates cars, car clubs im involved with, mates in the business etc... not a 100k+ car :D

for example dan freeman has some nice work and isnt with a massive spec system

DSC_0377_2.jpg


P1040029.jpg


obviously i didnt look for the budget set ups because they dont seem to have such a good flash duration as the elichroms
 
fastworldimages said:
hoppy - flash center im planning on going to this week in london to have a chat.

Obviously its easy people just saying go profoto etc... but if you can survive on a 1500 set up compaired to a set up 2/3times more its obvious which way most people will go, espec in the current economic climate.

its mostly editorial based shooting id be intending to go anyway, mates cars, car clubs im involved with, mates in the business etc... not a 100k+ car :D

for example dan freeman has some nice work and isnt with a massive spec system

DSC_0377_2.jpg


P1040029.jpg


obviously i didnt look for the budget set ups because they dont seem to have such a good flash duration as the elichroms
Click to expand...

Lovely shot of the blue Renault by Dan Freeman. He's obviously done that when the ambient light is low, so no problem with flash power. There has also been a bit of Photoshop smoothing out reflections on the car.

What is the yellow Evo shot telling us?
 
just a shot of the system being used + lack of ig softboxes

and as to why ive been swaying away from a single big battery, when for similar money you can get 2quadras..
 
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