Electronic shutter v EFCS v just mechanical.

woof woof

woof woof

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I suppose lots of cameras have all three options these days. The recent launch of the Sony A7CII and A7CIIR and their lack of a purely mechanical shutter (it is afaik electronic shutter or EFCS with no purely mechanical option) got me wondering if anyone has seen any significant real world effects when using EFCS.

I usually use the electronic shutter when using my MFT cameras. I switched from mechanical to electronic because of shutter shock and even though I now have largely unaffected cameras and lenses I've stuck with the electronic shutter unless making a deliberate decision not to and I suppose banding under flickering lighting is the only issue which would have me switching to the mechanical shutter. Others will want to avoid rolling shutter effects but that's not an issue for me. I haven't noticed any issues when using the electronic shutter and I do take pictures at wide apertures and with fast shutter speeds.

I use the mechanical shutter when using my Sony A7 which doesn't have an electronic shutter but does have the option of EFCS. I can't say I've seen shutter shock and as I generally don't use shutter speeds below 1/100 I don't bother with EFCS. I do use wide apertures and fast shutter speeds though. I doubt losing the purely mechanical option would be an issue for me but as I do take wide aperture pictures at fast shutter speeds I suppose I should check before buying anything which could throw up issues.

Has anyone run into any significant or just annoying issues with EFCS?
 
I have always used EFCS on the A7.

I tend to use Electronic on the A7Riii in general but I need to switch to EFCS for <100 ISO (usually ND long exposures) and Bulb mode (tracked night sky shots) - both of which aren't too often really.

I have noticed LED banding (stripes) once on the A7Riii with electronic shutter & I've not really shot anything moving/panning where the rolling shutter effect thingy would happen.
 
woof woof said:
I suppose lots of cameras have all three options these days. The recent launch of the Sony A7CII and A7CIIR and their lack of a purely mechanical shutter (it is afaik electronic shutter or EFCS with no purely mechanical option) got me wondering if anyone has seen any significant real world effects when using EFCS.

I usually use the electronic shutter when using my MFT cameras. I switched from mechanical to electronic because of shutter shock and even though I now have largely unaffected cameras and lenses I've stuck with the electronic shutter unless making a deliberate decision not to and I suppose banding under flickering lighting is the only issue which would have me switching to the mechanical shutter. Others will want to avoid rolling shutter effects but that's not an issue for me. I haven't noticed any issues when using the electronic shutter and I do take pictures at wide apertures and with fast shutter speeds.

I use the mechanical shutter when using my Sony A7 which doesn't have an electronic shutter but does have the option of EFCS. I can't say I've seen shutter shock and as I generally don't use shutter speeds below 1/100 I don't bother with EFCS. I do use wide apertures and fast shutter speeds though. I doubt losing the purely mechanical option would be an issue for me but as I do take wide aperture pictures at fast shutter speeds I suppose I should check before buying anything which could throw up issues.

Has anyone run into any significant or just annoying issues with EFCS?
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Main issue is the effect it has on bokeh
 
f/2.8 said:
Main issue is the effect it has on bokeh
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That's what I've seen and read but I wondered what people have encountered and thought significant in real world use, rather than to test the point.
 
A7II / A7III:

I mix it up between full mechanical and EFCS, mostly mechanical, I’ll sometimes switch to EFCS during longer hand held exposures, then forget to switch back until I’m shooting in bright light with wide apertures and fast shutter (e.g. 1/2000)

then I may notice something like a graduated filter shading across the width of the frame, remember and switch back.
 
Thanks guys.

I haven't used filters for years and I doubt I will again so although I'd forgotten about them any issues caused by EFCS may not be a problem for me.

I don't think I'd find EFCS a problem but I suppose the only way to be sure would be to set my A7 to it and look at the wide aperture results as that's the area where it's most likely to affect me if it's going to affect me at all. I think that main reason this bothers me is that I don't like to be limited or have missing basic features and to me not having the option of a mechanical shutter is a limitation and a missing basic feature.
 
Intrigued as to the difference in practical terms between EFCS and pure mechanical - most of my photography is dog sport and I have found I can't use purely electronic on my R6, the rolling shutter effect is too apparent (bendy legs). Wasn't aware of any particular reason to switch to purely mechanical so interested to know if I'm missing anything.
 
LancsMak said:
Intrigued as to the difference in practical terms between EFCS and pure mechanical - most of my photography is dog sport and I have found I can't use purely electronic on my R6, the rolling shutter effect is too apparent (bendy legs). Wasn't aware of any particular reason to switch to purely mechanical so interested to know if I'm missing anything.
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Looking around the internet the main thing that people seem to be seeing is bokeh issues such distorted bokeh balls.

I might well try and shoot the same bokeh ball laden scene one day with both mechanical and EFCS and see if I can see any significant difference. I just wondered if anyone else has seen anything significant in real world shooting rather than in testing.
 
LancsMak said:
Intrigued as to the difference in practical terms between EFCS and pure mechanical - most of my photography is dog sport and I have found I can't use purely electronic on my R6, the rolling shutter effect is too apparent (bendy legs). Wasn't aware of any particular reason to switch to purely mechanical so interested to know if I'm missing anything.
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woof woof said:
Looking around the internet the main thing that people seem to be seeing is bokeh issues such distorted bokeh balls.

I might well try and shoot the same bokeh ball laden scene one day with both mechanical and EFCS and see if I can see any significant difference. I just wondered if anyone else has seen anything significant in real world shooting rather than in testing.
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EFCS is said to affect the shape and amount of bokeh. I have seen examples/comparisons of it on the Web, maybe Phillip Reeve or something......

But as you know Alan, I shoot pretty wide open myself at times and I've never noticed anything odd and no one's commented on anything looking odd before.....
 
LeeRatters said:
EFCS is said to affect the shape and amount of bokeh. I have seen examples/comparisons of it on the Web, maybe Phillip Reeve or something......

But as you know Alan, I shoot pretty wide open myself at times and I've never noticed anything odd and no one's commented on anything looking odd before.....
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Same for me.

There's a thread on EFCS effects on another forum but my interest is in if people notice anything significant in day to day shooting rather than shooting the same scene with mechanical and EFCS and then nit picking the differences in the bokeh balls. That to me isn't real world shooting :D

I might set my A7 for EFCS and mount my 50mm f1.1 and shoot with it for a week or a month and see if anything jumps out at me.

I'll almost certainly not buy a A7cx but the lack of a purely mechanical shutter just got me thinking if there were any significant drawbacks.
 
I tend to go with full electronic where the R6 allows and I don't need the absolute ultimate quality. There is a bit of rolling shutter and ibis wobble but usually not noticeable enough. This also enable faster fps and viewfinder becomes sort of usable if shooting more than 3fps. So anything moving I'm afraid is fully eletronic even if side effects are nasty.
They force you to use EFCS with flash or on tripod with even moderately long exposures so that's that. I've never even seen the need to try fully mechanical. I don't shoot R6 much from tripod because I much prefer DSLRs for any and every landscape and interior shot. EVF is rubbish for anything but basic outlines, and you can simply trust the AF to do the rest. So portrait / lifestyle / video camera only.

Next camera will likely be Nikon Z9 or Z8 or maybe R5II if they catch up with Nikon in every department including size and build.
 
woof woof said:
Same for me.

There's a thread on EFCS effects on another forum but my interest is in if people notice anything significant in day to day shooting rather than shooting the same scene with mechanical and EFCS and then nit picking the differences in the bokeh balls. That to me isn't real world shooting :D

I might set my A7 for EFCS and mount my 50mm f1.1 and shoot with it for a week or a month and see if anything jumps out at me.

I'll almost certainly not buy a A7cx but the lack of a purely mechanical shutter just got me thinking if there were any significant drawbacks.
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Actual bokeh characteristics are seldom a significant factor in most images.

What most people refer to as bokeh is just blur, and that can be accomplished with any lens at any aperture (with the right scene/situation); EFC has no effect on blur...
 
I always use electronic shutter on my R5 and have never seen any issues with bokeh in fact I’ve never seen any distortion effects at all with moving subjects either but maybe I’m just lucky :)
 
Thanks all.

I will at some point take a look at how my own cameras perform with efcs v electronic v mechanical but it may be one of those projects that never really gets done :D I think not having a conventional non electronic and non efcs option could well put me off a camera. I am happy with my current kit but I do accept that sooner or later it'll fail and then I'll have to make a choice :D
 
Very soon or perhaps even today if you shoot z9, z8, A1, and r3 the choice will be made for you. It will be mainstream within the next generation and certainly next 2. And that's a good thing: no more shutter failure and cheaper mechanical components
 
The electronic shutter is the reason I bought the A9 and never used the mechanical shutter after initially setting the camera to electronic only, I don't think there's much of a downgrade in IQ on this type of camera and it brings so many advantages. The silent operation is useful in many circumstances where the noise of the shutter can be distracting and it's particularly welcome when doing a lot of burst shooting around people so you don't get that constant 'clack-clack-clack' over and over again. The electronic shutter can burst at higher speeds and the blackout free shooting makes it so much easier to track a subject and keep the focus on them.
 
The poshest camera I have is my near 10 year old Sony A7 and it doesn't have an electronic shutter. It is in fact very basic by todays even entry level standards but it does 99% of what I want. I doubt I'll ever pay for a Sony A1 level camera as it just seems wrong to spend so much on a camera. Good luck and no disrespect meant to people who have cameras of that level and I suppose it is wrong of me to think like this when I'd spend waaaay more on a car :D

I suppose when my A7 konks I'll have a good luck at what's available but I suppose what I'll end up with is whatever the base model A7 is at the time and if it has an electronic shutter and only an electronic shutter I suppose I'll buy it :D
 
I was hoping Sony would move the technology onto the A7 range for its quiet, blackout free performance especially on the A7C series where you don't want the camera standing out so much. There is clearly a cost for the stacked technology but these can be normally reduced in time although for many, silent blackout free shooting doesn't seem much of a priority.
 
JohnMcL7 said:
I was hoping Sony would move the technology onto the A7 range for its quiet, blackout free performance especially on the A7C series where you don't want the camera standing out so much. There is clearly a cost for the stacked technology but these can be normally reduced in time although for many, silent blackout free shooting doesn't seem much of a priority.
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The stacked sensor technology in the A9/A1 cameras is still a 'premium' option - my suspicion is that when Sony have a Global Shutter available, that will be used in their A9/A1 series, and the stacked sensor will start to be used in the A7 models - so there will continue to be a technology gap between the A7 and A1/A9 models.
 
Constable said:
If the OP meant Sony a7cr, then it does have a mechanical shutter. At least, mine does.

Ed
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Does it?

I've read that the mechanical shutter uses EFCS and if that's correct I don't consider it to be a purely mechanical shutter.

I'm interested in any image quality or other issues when using either electronic shutter v EFCS v mechanical.

I haven't had time to do any comparisons since I posted this thread as there's been a death in the family and that and it's ramification have been my prime concern. When things settle down I may have time to do some comparisons myself but that'll obviously only be with the kit I have. In the future new kit may eliminate any potential issues.
 
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Constable said:
Yes, you are right. Or at least there is no way to disable EFCS, so I presume it is permanently on. I owe you a chiant! Sorry for the confusion.
Ed
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Thanks for confirming what I thought I'd read.

When I get the time and the motivation I want to try and see if I can see differences between the various shutter options in real world pictures and of course in the meantime if anyone else has any thoughts or comments I'd be happy to know them.
 
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