Dust blob without removing the lens?

Crotal Bell

Crotal Bell

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Keith
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Yes
Since getting the G9 and Leica 100-400mm I have not removed the pairing.
There was no dust marks on the photos until the last few days, previous shots with sky were clean but now I have a dust blob.
I've cleaned the lens so it's not that.
Can you get dust on the sensor with removing a lens and exposing the sensor?
 
Yes
When you zoom the lens, as the elements move about, air from the atmosphere moves about in the lens, and in the void between the last of the lens elements and the sensor.
 
Phil V said:
Yes
When you zoom the lens, as the elements move about, air from the atmosphere moves about in the lens, and in the void between the last of the lens elements and the sensor.
Click to expand...
Thanks Phil
So taking this into consideration, I guess claims of lenses being "weather proof" should be treated with some caution too?
 
Crotal Bell said:
Thanks Phil
So taking this into consideration, I guess claims of lenses being "weather proof" should be treated with some caution too?
Click to expand...

Always. Unless it's my GoPro, which I have had in a fish tank and a fish pond without ill-effect, I treat all my electronic equipment as if it's made of rice paper. It rains and the stuff goes into a bag.
 
Crotal Bell said:
Thanks Phil
So taking this into consideration, I guess claims of lenses being "weather proof" should be treated with some caution too?
Click to expand...
Is the G9 & PL 100-400 combo designated 'weatherproof'?
 
Is it dust or a tiny mite? this is the time of year they start moving around and driving photographers mental.
 
They are weather resistant, but dust is an ever present problem
Give the sensor a blast with a rocket blower holding the camera upside down.
Also give the camera sensor clean function in the menu a whirl.

If that doesn't work its swab time and all the differing opinions surrounding that.
Camera on, off, diy or take to shop, various other cleaners like sticky pads and statically charged brushes.
 
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swanseamale47 said:
Is it dust or a tiny mite? this is the time of year they start moving around and driving photographers mental.
Click to expand...
It's in the same place all the time, and looks like a classic feint dust circle.
Another lesson learned, I assumed that if the lenses were never removed then dust would never be an issue.
 
Box Brownie said:
Is the G9 & PL 100-400 combo designated 'weatherproof'?
Click to expand...
As Rich states, sold as weather resistant. There's a DP Review where they use it in a Canadian winter with snow on the camera.
I wouldn't want to risk that personally.
 
I doubt the dust got in there since you put the lens on, it was probably already in there somewhere and has moved.

If you clean it, the sensor block will move around as you do so. Normal

It is not the sensor you are cleaning, but the filter in front of it, they are robust.
 
Crotal Bell said:
Thanks Phil
So taking this into consideration, I guess claims of lenses being "weather proof" should be treated with some caution too?
Click to expand...
It depends
Some lenses are better than others at protecting cameras from dust ingestion

And bear in mind ‘weather proof’ is a description of water tightness, not the same thing as ‘dust proof’ nor does it pretend to be.
 
Crotal Bell said:
It's in the same place all the time, and looks like a classic feint dust circle.
Another lesson learned, I assumed that if the lenses were never removed then dust would never be an issue.
Click to expand...
Your assumption is incorrect
 
Phil V said:
It depends
Some lenses are better than others at protecting cameras from dust ingestion

And bear in mind ‘weather proof’ is a description of water tightness, not the same thing as ‘dust proof’ nor does it pretend to be.
Click to expand...
Thanks Phil, much appreciated.
 
Crotal Bell said:
It's in the same place all the time, and looks like a classic feint dust circle.
Another lesson learned, I assumed that if the lenses were never removed then dust would never be an issue.
Click to expand...
With a good light you might be able to see the spot with lens off, bear in mind top is bottom and left is right.
Don't touch it with anything or blow on it from mouth whatever you do, proper rubber bulb blower if inbuilt sensor shake won't move it, if that doesn't work wet clean swabs are the way to go. Blowing is more likely to work with specks which resemble fibres, round blobs are often more sticky like pollen or a skin flake (skin flakes make up a large % of house dust...)
It might have been there for weeks already they become more noticeable in bright conditions with small aperture high F stop shots.
To see if it has gone, take a shot at F22 or whatever is highest of bright sky you can use high ISO it doesn't even need to be focused
You can view zoomed in on cam screen but to be sure check on computer.

Dust getting into the lens is not the same as sensor dust.
Dust in lens almost never shows in images.
Dust on sensor is inevitable sooner or later but you can minimise it by careful and swift lens changes.
Specks might have been floating about inside from new - there is no way to avoid dust spots indefinitely, even sealed cameras without interchangeable lenses get the sometimes and that really is a problem. At least when you can access sensor you can clean it off.
 
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It could have got in when you were juggling with the lenses when you put the zoom on.

At some point the sensor or the back of the lens or both were open to the elements.

I try to make sure that everything is uncovered for the shortest time possible when changing a lens.
I loosen the rear lens cap on the lens to go on.
I loosen the lens on the camera
Remember I only have 2 hands
I hold the camera down and remove the lens and put it down then pick up the new lens and hope the rear lens cap comes off before attaching it to the camera.
The original lens and the rear lens cap at this point are still open to dust and many times something sticks a bit and the lens or camera is put down to free up a hand to remove the sticky bit.

I suppose the best way would be to do it all in a bag, a bit like when loading a developing tank with film, as long as the bag stays dust free.
 
FWIW I've had sensor dust with zoom compacts too. As suggested, try a blower, then a wet clean if that doesn't work. Dust spots are a normal part of digital photography.
 
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4wd said:
With a good light you might be able to see the spot with lens off, bear in mind top is bottom and left is right.
Don't touch it with anything or blow on it from mouth whatever you do, proper rubber bulb blower if inbuilt sensor shake won't move it, if that doesn't work wet clean swabs are the way to go. Blowing is more likely to work with specks which resemble fibres, round blobs are often more sticky like pollen or a skin flake (skin flakes make up a large % of house dust...)
It might have been there for weeks already they become more noticeable in bright conditions with small aperture high F stop shots.
To see if it has gone, take a shot at F22 or whatever is highest of bright sky you can use high ISO it doesn't even need to be focused
You can view zoomed in on cam screen but to be sure check on computer.

Dust getting into the lens is not the same as sensor dust.
Dust in lens almost never shows in images.
Dust on sensor is inevitable sooner or later but you can minimise it by careful and swift lens changes.
Specks might have been floating about inside from new - there is no way to avoid dust spots indefinitely, even sealed cameras without interchangeable lenses get the sometimes and that really is a problem. At least when you can access sensor you can clean it off.
Click to expand...

seaodyssey said:
It could have got in when you were juggling with the lenses when you put the zoom on.

At some point the sensor or the back of the lens or both were open to the elements.

I try to make sure that everything is uncovered for the shortest time possible when changing a lens.
I loosen the rear lens cap on the lens to go on.
I loosen the lens on the camera
Remember I only have 2 hands
I hold the camera down and remove the lens and put it down then pick up the new lens and hope the rear lens cap comes off before attaching it to the camera.
The original lens and the rear lens cap at this point are still open to dust and many times something sticks a bit and the lens or camera is put down to free up a hand to remove the sticky bit.

I suppose the best way would be to do it all in a bag, a bit like when loading a developing tank with film, as long as the bag stays dust free.
Click to expand...

ancient_mariner said:
FWIW I've had sensor dust with zoom compacts too. As suggested, try a blower, then a wet clean if that doesn't work. Dust spots are a normal part of digital photography.
Click to expand...
Just for clarity folks, the lens and camera were ordered at the same time and assembled by me, they have not been separated since.
For many weeks, sky shots have been clean, now there is a feint circle upper right, classic sensor dust as per my other camera and what I have been shown by people on here and online.
Perhaps the tiny spec was always in there and has fallen/moved to the sensor.
 
Crotal Bell said:
Just for clarity folks, the lens and camera were ordered at the same time and assembled by me, they have not been separated since.
For many weeks, sky shots have been clean, now there is a feint circle upper right, classic sensor dust as per my other camera and what I have been shown by people on here and online.
Perhaps the tiny spec was always in there and has fallen/moved to the sensor.
Click to expand...

Back in the DSLR days I read that much sensor contamination was generated internally by the cameras moving parts shedding oil and shards and that contamination could work its way in through gaps around buttons etc and the lens mount and through lenses and stand a chance of ending up on the sensor.

Some of that may be true and even with mirrorless there are still moving parts which I suppose could shed some contamination. I think my money would be on zoom lenses acting as a pump or contamination getting in through the lens mount. I mostly use primes and I have some camera and lens combinations which have become semi permanent in that I rarely change lenses and I don't seem to get contamination on them which maybe points to zooms being more of a culprit than primes. I do quite a few lens changes and in all conditions and I don't seem to suffer too much contamination which I assume goes to show that sensor coatings have got better and less susceptible.

Good luck with it Keith. As you may know if the blob appears in the upper right it's on the lower right of the sensor. My first step is always the in camera cleaning and if that doesn't work I try a rocket blower and if that doesn't shift it a wet clean is the thing to do.
 
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woof woof said:
Back in the DSLR days I read that much sensor contamination was generated internally by the cameras moving parts shedding oil and shards and that contamination could work its way in through gaps around buttons etc and the lens mount and through lenses and stand a chance of ending up on the sensor.

Some of that may be true and even with mirrorless there are still moving parts which I suppose could shed some contamination. I think my money would be on zoom lenses acting as a pump or contamination getting in through the lens mount. I mostly use primes and I have some camera and lens combinations which have become semi permanent in that I rarely change lenses and I don't seem to get contamination on them which maybe points to zooms being more of a culprit than primes. I do quite a few lens changes and in all conditions and I don't seem to suffer too much contamination which I assume goes to show that sensor coatings have got better as less susceptible.

Good luck with it Keith. As you may know if the blob appears in the upper right it's on the lower right of the sensor. My first step is always the in camera cleaning and if that doesn't work I try a rocket blower and if that doesn't shift it a wet clean is the thing to do.
Click to expand...
I'll try the in-camera sensor clean tonight buddy.
 
Works best if the camera's set down on a solid surface.
 
ancient_mariner said:
FWIW I've had sensor dust with zoom compacts too. As suggested, try a blower, then a wet clean if that doesn't work. Dust spots are a normal part of digital photography.
Click to expand...
They were even worse in the days of film (and still are, of course)
 
Or, if using multi-use cassettes, grit could get into the felt light seal and mess up whole rolls.
 
This reminds me why I gave up film. My prints were coming back with spots and hairs and scratches and blobs and all sending the negs back to be redone achieved was me receiving prints which were just as bad but accompanied by a snotty note stating the importance of keeping negatives safe. The fact that they'd stayed in their sleeves seemed irrelevant. I assumed the nose dive in quality was because they'd cut costs due to digital taking over but whatever the reason for the (lack of) quality that experience ended film for me. These days having to put up with and clean just the odd dust bunny is a luxury.
 
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Keith lots of good answers above ,what I would do is remove lens hold camera above your head pointing down and a few good blasts with a rocket blower . Then fit another lens and check for dust spots again . If gone then give rear element of lens a blast to ..
word of warning do not do a wet clean on a MFT sensor as you could break the i..b.I.s mechanism ..pretty sure they have to be Done with camera switched on ..
saying that you should be using that 100-400 wide open so not see any dust spots
PS i did tell you to get a olympus LOL
 
the black fox said:
Keith lots of good answers above ,what I would do is remove lens hold camera above your head pointing down and a few good blasts with a rocket blower . Then fit another lens and check for dust spots again . If gone then give rear element of lens a blast to ..
word of warning do not do a wet clean on a MFT sensor as you could break the i..b.I.s mechanism ..pretty sure they have to be Done with camera switched on ..
saying that you should be using that 100-400 wide open so not see any dust spots
PS i did tell you to get a olympus LOL
Click to expand...
Thanks Jeff. I need to order a rocket blower, I'll get one sorted asap.
 
the black fox said:
Keith lots of good answers above ,what I would do is remove lens hold camera above your head pointing down and a few good blasts with a rocket blower . Then fit another lens and check for dust spots again . If gone then give rear element of lens a blast to ..
word of warning do not do a wet clean on a MFT sensor as you could break the i..b.I.s mechanism ..pretty sure they have to be Done with camera switched on ..
saying that you should be using that 100-400 wide open so not see any dust spots
PS i did tell you to get a olympus LOL
Click to expand...
I've wet cleaned my G9 and GX9 with the camera off more than once.
Where are you getting your information from?
You do know that Olympus technicians clean the sensor at the Photo Show with the camera off?
Why would it break the IBIS?
 
tijuana taxi said:
I've wet cleaned my G9 and GX9 with the camera off more than once.
Where are you getting your information from?
You do know that Olympus technicians clean the sensor at the Photo Show with the camera off?
Why would it break the IBIS?
Click to expand...


Same, I do it with the cameras off.

The stabilisation has hard stops that would take much more force than cleaning to damage.

Look at it logically, pick the camera up with the power off and shake it. You can hear the assembly rattling around.
Now imagine how hard that rattling would be if you had to run whilst holding the camera. Or in a parcel in the post, or a suitcase when travelling.
Haven't seen any requirement for the camera to be turned on under those circumstances.

At the same time, if you have the camera turned on, it may sound better when cleaning, but the system will be fighting against the cleaning, which means the system will be operating at maximum strength to try and counter something it can't!.

Clean with minimum pressure, and slowly and carefully, as one would expect to do on any thing similar.
 
tijuana taxi said:
I've wet cleaned my G9 and GX9 with the camera off more than once.
Where are you getting your information from?
You do know that Olympus technicians clean the sensor at the Photo Show with the camera off?
Why would it break the IBIS?
Click to expand...
Don’t shoot the messenger , I’m only repeating what I was told by someone at Olympus , . after owning a 10.mkii , two 1 mk1, a 1 mkii a1mkiii,a e.M1x I have only ever had one sensor dust issue and that was on a 1mki and was pollen which may have been there when purchased used
 
the black fox said:
Don’t shoot the messenger , I’m only repeating what I was told by someone at Olympus , . after owning a 10.mkii , two 1 mk1, a 1 mkii a1mkiii,a e.M1x I have only ever had one sensor dust issue and that was on a 1mki and was pollen which may have been there when purchased used
Click to expand...
Fair enough and sorry, that did'nt come across how I intended it.
I think its time the manufacturers gave clear instructions for sensor cleaning.
Its something that does need to be done occasionally and not exactly a hard or risky task.
 
Sangoma said:
Same, I do it with the cameras off.

The stabilisation has hard stops that would take much more force than cleaning to damage.

Look at it logically, pick the camera up with the power off and shake it. You can hear the assembly rattling around.
Now imagine how hard that rattling would be if you had to run whilst holding the camera. Or in a parcel in the post, or a suitcase when travelling.
Haven't seen any requirement for the camera to be turned on under those circumstances.

At the same time, if you have the camera turned on, it may sound better when cleaning, but the system will be fighting against the cleaning, which means the system will be operating at maximum strength to try and counter something it can't!.

Clean with minimum pressure, and slowly and carefully, as one would expect to do on any thing similar.
Click to expand...
Also the risk of the camera turning off accidentally and the shutter activating
I wonder if a better way would be camera on, ibis off and electronic shutter?
Would that lock the sensor in place?
 
Having a sensor cleaning kit ie "loupe - swabs- sensor cleaning liquid -artic butterfly - blower" I consided major part of the photographic equipment. Nothing worse than sending a camera away to be cleaned by some unknown person who may/may not do the job properly and being without a camera for several days. Why spend hundreds or thousands of pounds on cameras and lenses only to find the photos have dust spots on them? that kit I quoted should be as important as everything else
 
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realspeed said:
Having a sensor cleaning kit ie "loupe - swabs- sensor cleaning liquid -artic butterfly - blower" I consided major part of the photographic equipment. Nothing worse than sending a camera away to be cleaned by some unknown person who may/may not do the job properly and being without a camera for several days. Why spend hundreds or thousands of pounds on cameras and lenses only to find the photos have dust spots on them? that kit I quoted should be as important as everything else
Click to expand...
What I tried to say in my post above , is though I had all of the sensor cleaning aids you mention above and totally agree since moving on from DSLR cameras and investing in olympus MFT I have only once had to clean a sensor ,and that was on a second hand camera .
This is also the general consensus from most Olympus owners
 
My X-H1 was a bit dusty when I got it 2nd hand so I ended up doing a wet clean. To lock the IBIS was a bit of a faff but did work better than doing it "floppy"!
 
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