Driving instructors (and other interested parties)

[Cobra]

Does this sound right to you?
Or indeed is the the norm?

My son at the tender age of 25 has finally decided that he would like to learn to drive.

The guy he has "picked" ( I genuinely don't know if its a "school" or an "independent" )
£25 for a 2 hour trial lesson, sounds fair to me.
There is an option to take 10 lessons for £99 that is 5 x 2 hour lessons,
again, fair enough.
But the small print reads
that for the £99 you get the 5 x 2 hour lessons, BUT the first 3 x 2 hour lessons are included in that price,
as are the last 2 x 2 hour lessons.

"Normal lessons" are £25 / hour or £45 / 2 hour lessons,
there is a 4 month waiting list for a test in this area,
and I doubt very much that 5 x 2 hour lessons will to see him to his test.
(due to the waiting list for a test) Although He does have a reasonable amount of road sense,
having ridden a motorbike, on and off for a few years, and more latterly a push bike.

If there is more than a 2 month gap between his first three lessons
and the next lesson he loses the other (last ) 2 lessons.

Having done a bit of a google, for this area most driving schools are reluctant to post
their prices, but what bits I can find seems to be £18 - £25 / hour.

As above is this the norm these days?

 

[Keith W]

On average the cost of learning to drive is around £1,300 (providing you pass first time)

£25 an hour is about the right price

 

[Cobra]

On average the cost of learning to drive is around £1,300 (providing you pass first time)
£25 an hour is about the right price

That's Scary!
I think I took somewhere between 10 & 12 Lessons
and at a fraction of that cost, and virtually no waiting for a test
( 2 weeks I think may have been 3) but that was a long time ago now.
(And yes the man with the red flag had just retired before someone asks )

Cheers for the reply Keith

 

[Yv]

Yup, would have to ask @Yves Geza about exact costs as I can't remember, but certainly when Beth was learning a few years ago, it was well into the 20 somethings around here then.

 

[archangel]

I an going to start a driving school......looks like there is more money doing that than photography.

 

[Cobra]

I've had more of a chance to google now, I was more "concerned" about the "contracts" that they seem to tie learners into,
well my son anyway, it now seems its the norm.

I mean WTF, what happened to pay a few quid and have lessons as and when?

 

[nilagin]

I've had more of a chance to google now, I was more "concerned" about the "contracts" that they seem to tie learners into,
well my son anyway, it now seems its the norm.

I mean WTF, what happened to pay a few quid and have lessons as and when?

You can still pay as and when with The AA driving school.

 

[MWHCVT]

When I learn to drive I did I think somewhere between 10-15 hours with my instructor a local independent from the next village...(who actuslly also taught both my sisters about 10 years before me) at the time he charged £20/hr none of this silly crap you've descrived above of convoluted offers...although I learn in my own car so actually only paid £15/hr

I did however cover 3,500 miles when learning to drive as I went out every weekend with my dad and we'd drive all over the place...

 

[SarahLee]

It does seem a bit of a convoluted contract with it being the first three and last two lessons included in the block price.
I can see why it's set out that way though.
Otherwise I can imagine people doing the 5 x2 hour lessons for £99 and then going off to somebody else for another bargain 10 hours for £xx and the instructor not benefiting from any 'full price' lessons from the client.

How does he define "last lessons" though? Is that to take you up to the test?***
And where it says no more than a 2 month gap between lessons, does that mean between the first three 'discounted' lessons and the first 'normal' lesson - or is that start to finish from first lesson to test?

It's definitely not clear

*** When I took my test (yes, it was a long time ago now!) the test day counted as a 2 hour lesson - one normal driving lesson / warm up immediately before the test and then an hour for the test itself. Is that maybe how he's defining 'last lesson'?

 

[Cobra]

It does seem a bit of a convoluted contract with it being the first three and last two lessons included in the block price.
I can see why it's set out that way though.
Otherwise I can imagine people doing the 5 x2 hour lessons for £99 and then going off to somebody else for another bargain 10 hours for £xx and the instructor not benefiting from any 'full price' lessons from the client.

I can see that now, also, as people would just keep taking the £99 (or what ever) trials from different "schools"

How does he define "last lessons" though? Is that to take you up to the test?***

I've read it again since and it seems its the last two lessons on the run up to the test, but again, I would assume that test day
would be a paid in full 2 hours, plus "car hire" for the test.

And where it says no more than a 2 month gap between lessons, does that mean between the first three 'discounted' lessons and the first 'normal' lesson - or is that start to finish from first lesson to test?

There is a 4 month waiting list for tests here,
so it must be that you can't take a break for more than two months during your "course"

 

[mickledore]

I have a mate who ran a driving school. He had been a Police Advanced Driving instructor, so was used to teaching. He taught SWMBO to drive 10 years ago, and she thought he was wonderful. He offered a package of 10 lessons for the price of 9, and she needed two of these, but then she wasn't a spring chicken (Don't say an old boiler, or I'll get hit!)

He doesn't do it any more. Gave up in frustration. His gripe was young learners. They didn't have the money to buy block bookings like you are offered, so they all want to pay on the day. Fine, but he found that they would either forget about the lesson, or even worse cancel on the morning. On one occassion he had a phone call from the girl whose house he was sat outside saying that she didn't want that day's lesson. He reckoned over 30% of his pay on the day lessons were wasted by no-shows. Of course he can't rebook so he has nothing to do but sit around for 1 or 2 hours. Then young kids will just change instructors on a whim so he couldn't rely on long term bookings and was virtually working on a week by week basis.

Sounds like your instructor is trying to ensure that he gets paid for keeping his side of the bargain.

SWMBO's last "lesson" was a 2 hour stint. One hour preparing for the test, and the last hour was the test itself. No mention of car hire for the test - never heard of that one.

 

[viv1969]

Having spoken to him indoors, the average numbers of hours to a successful test is 40.

2-hour lessons aren't recommended for complete beginners as it's a long time to concentrate.

Does he have a student card? Often that gets a discount regardless of age.

18-25 quid per hour is about right.

4 months to wait for a test sounds a long time...but cancellations are often available and he can take his test in any place. I'm sure test centres not too far away will have better lead times.

Any school that won't take bookings on an hour by hour basis are probably best avoided. And the best recommendations will probably come via his mates.

And then there's the theory test to take into consideration.....

 

[viv1969]

And the the hourly rate for test time includes the car. Anyone trying to charge additional is basically a scheister.

 

[Cobra]

. On one occassion he had a phone call from the girl whose house he was sat outside saying that she didn't want that day's lesson. He reckoned over 30% of his pay on the day lessons were wasted by no-shows. Of course he can't rebook so he has nothing to do but sit around for 1 or 2 hours. Then young kids will just change instructors on a whim so he couldn't rely on long term bookings and was virtually working on a week by week basis.
Sounds like your instructor is trying to ensure that he gets paid for keeping his side of the bargain.

I can the instructors point on that TBH

Having spoken to him indoors, the average numbers of hours to a successful test is 40.
2-hour lessons aren't recommended for complete beginners as it's a long time to concentrate.
Does he have a student card? Often that gets a discount regardless of age.
18-25 quid per hour is about right.
4 months to wait for a test sounds a long time...but cancellations are often available and he can take his test in any place. I'm sure test centres not too far away will have better lead times.
And the best recommendations will probably come via his mates.
And then there's the theory test to take into consideration.....

Thanks for that Ruth.
I also agree that 2 hours is rather a long time, many years ago, I did part one (or what ever its called these days)
but for personal reasons at the time never continued, seems I should have
and I was "taught" that after 50 minutes the (younger) student starts to lose interest / concentration.
The next test test centre is about 10 / 12 miles away.
So I guess the instructor will want to keep it local, for their benefit
Apparently he done a lot of research as to which school so I will have to trust him on that
And no student card, but looking at more schools in this area its only £1-£2 discount per lesson,
for students.

Any school that won't take bookings on an hour by hour basis are probably best avoided.

That was my immediate thought too!
Having spoken to him at length about it, he is adamant that this is the way he wants to do it.
And of course at that age (25) they know it all

 

[viv1969]

The four closest test centres are all 10 miles from here!

 

[Cobra]

The four closest test centres are all 10 miles from here!

The closest one here is less than 2 miles away, and as it serves all of MK!

A quick Google reveals that :-
According the the DVSA site, There are 2 more 10/12 miles away in Leighton buzzard ( a smallish town)
one is 5 weeks wait, the other has "tests available"
And the local one its a 9 week wait.

 

[viv1969]

The closest one here is less than 2 miles away, and as it serves all of MK!

A quick Google reveals that :-
According the the DVSA site, There are 2 more 10/12 miles away in Leighton buzzard ( a smallish town)
one is 5 weeks wait, the other has "tests available"
And the local one its a 9 week wait.

That's a bit more like it

 

[Cobra]

That's a bit more like it

I would have thought so too, TBH.
Now that makes me wonder if (all) the instructors are saying 4 months,
to make sure they get the "most" from their pupils

 

[Gary Coyle]

On average the cost of learning to drive is around £1,300 (providing you pass first time)

£25 an hour is about the right price

How do you work that out, at aged 25 i passed forst time after 12 lessons which in todays terms is roughly £300, my brother at 18 passed in 15 lessons, the wife at 18 passed 2nd time after 18 lessons, 17 for her frst test and a refresher 2 weels later for her pass.

They did used to say 1 lesson for every year old you are

There are plenty of 1 week intensive courses round me for under £600

 

[Keith W]

And how old are you now?

Everyone is different when it comes to learning to drive, so its an average

 

[onomatopoeia]

I had 17 or 18 one hour lessons at £12/hour when I was 17 (this would be 1986/87). It was only that many because there was a six month wait for a test at Ruislip test centre and other local places. The instructor told me I should put in for the test after seven lessons, and when the date came back six months later took the lessons down to approx one every two weeks. I paid for them myself, and my practice in between was things like driving the whole family into Uxbridge for shopping on Saturdays, driving my dad to my (elderly and infirm at that point) grandparents in Alyesbury one evening each week, so I did plenty of supervised hours outside of lessons in my dad's old barge of a Chrysler 180. Never once cancelled a lesson.

£25/h nowadays sounds about right tbh.

 

[SarahLee]

I would have thought so too, TBH.
Now that makes me wonder if (all) the instructors are saying 4 months,
to make sure they get the "most" from their pupils

Playing devil's advocate here, but what's the waiting list for theory tests?
You need to have passed before booking the practical test, so if you factor that in along with the 9 weeks for the local centre, 4 months might not be as crazy as it sounds.

 

[Cobra]

Playing devil's advocate here, but what's the waiting list for theory tests?
You need to have passed before booking the practical test, so if you factor that in along with the 9 weeks for the local centre, 4 months might not be as crazy as it sounds.

The theory waiting time is only a couple of weeks and he's already booked that.

 

[SarahLee]

The theory waiting time is only a couple of weeks and he's already booked that.

Then nope, don't get the 4 months bit at all!!!

 

[Cobra]

Then nope, don't get the 4 months bit at all!!!

The only thing I can think of is above, more money

 

[viv1969]

The only thing I can think of is above, more money

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the "car hire" extra for test day.

 

[Gremlin]

I was paying £20 when my girls learnt to drive 10 years ago, so sounds about right.
My eldest was with an AA franchised instructor and I can't fault him, she failed many tests due to nerve,
he said there was nothing wrong with her driving, don't know if it's still the same but you had to wait a month between tests,
so she put straight in for the next and he always told her to book a lesson before the test, I had bought her a car
so she was practicing on that and it was nice to hear the instructor say that she wasn't learning any bad habits, he
just wanted one lesson for her to get used to his car and make sure all was ok.
When I learned many years ago there was a very long wait and after 3 lessons my instructor told me to put in for the test,
sod's law I got one 6 weeks later, he said go for it as I was ok and the experience would be good, yep I failed and had to
wait nearly 3 months for the next, but only went back for lessons a month before and passed
So perhaps there is a long wait at the moment seems to fluctuate a fair bit

 

[viv1969]

No longer have to wait a month, between tests if you're lucky enough to get a cancellation.

 

[Gremlin]

See it's been reduced to 10 days, you'd have to be lucky to get in that quick

 

[viv1969]

See it's been reduced to 10 days, you'd have to be lucky to get in that quick

Yep...very.

 

[Cobra]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the "car hire" extra for test day.

I guess the idea is, you pay for a one or two hour lesson before the test,
no idea how long they are these days, but while you are on test the instructor can't be earning,
so he'll charge you for that hour test plus to and from the centre.

 

[viv1969]

I guess the idea is, you pay for a one or two hour lesson before the test,
no idea how long they are these days, but while you are on test the instructor can't be earning,
so he'll charge you for that hour test plus to and from the centre.

Yes he is earning whilst you're on test.
You pay him for two hours...one hour leading up to the test, and the test time itself (during which he's earning whilst doing sod all!).
If he's charging extra then he's literally a thief!
And the test is generally 40 minutes tops which gives him 20 mins to drive the pupil home.

 

[Mr Bump]

The theory waiting time is only a couple of weeks and he's already booked that.

yes but dont you need to have PASSED that to take your road test?

 

[Box Brownie]

Crumbs it sounds expensive to learn these days. Obviously much has changed since I learned! I can see the business advantage of doing a block booking for both parties commitment.

Fwiw I paid 30 bob per 1 hour lesson, 13 lessons and took my test 2 months after my 17 birthday passing first time I learned in the instructors Hillman Avenger but took my test on his recommendation in the family Austin 1100.......and I had 2 examiners in the car, the one in the back was testing the examiner but I only got told that by my instructor when he told me after the test that the other guy was the Chief of the test centre!!!

 

[Yves Geza]

Are you sure your son even needs driving lessons, Chris?

Surely if you re-read a few threads here on TP 'Out of Focus', and then stare intently at him for a few minutes, the reflected radiance from the Driving Gods here will teach him all he needs to know!?

 

[Cobra]

yes but dont you need to have PASSED that to take your road test?

Indeed but as there is a such a short waiting list, should he fail that, he can get a few more in, in plenty of time.
Him having ridden a M/Bike and push bike for the last 9 years I guess his hazard perception et al should be up to scratch.

Fwiw I paid 30 bob per 1 hour lesson, 13 lessons and took my test 2 months after my 17 birthday passing first time !

Pretty much the same here Official lessons and Test taken in a MKI escort, but "back up lessons" Ala Dad and his Morris Oxford.

Are you sure your son even needs driving lessons, Chris?
Surely if you re-read a few threads here on TP 'Out of Focus', and then stare intently at him for a few minutes, the reflected radiance from the Driving Gods here will teach him all he needs to know!?

Great idea Jon, I'll sign him up