DPF Expected Lifespan

AJQS

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How long do these suckers last? Parents bought new (used) car, made it from Norwich to Nottingham before going into limp mode with a p2002 error. It's been a motorway cruiser and racked up a lot of miles in it's short life so not an issue with too much short journeys. From what I can gather for this engine it shouldn't have gone into limp for a simple regeneration. Could it just be life expired?
 
My previous Focus had a service life of 80k miles for the dpf unit but the dealership said they only replaced when error showed which in my case hadn't at 100k. Current Focus has 72k and haven't had to top up dpf fluid which I did in previous Focus by same mileage.
If they have just bought the car is it not fit for purpose so claim a refund from dealer.
 
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my knowledge is like you say if not to many local mailes 70k
 
If it's just been bought then it's probably best to reject it. MOT is getting much stricter on emissions so a car with a dpf issue won't pass and won't with it removed either.

Dpf issues can show up quite early with short journeys or using rubbish fuel. If it's been a lease car then it might not have been serviced on time or treated well.

How old is the car, what is the mileage and does it have a proper genuine full service history?
 
Didn't realise they had such short service lives - based on that it should be at the end of it's second one! At least it's a straightforward thing to fix.
 
Didn't realise they had such short service lives - based on that it should be at the end of it's second one! At least it's a straightforward thing to fix.
Albeit expensive. That's the thing about running costs of diesels they dont mention, when you take all the little "extras", such as tyre life/size, service intervals, dpf fluid/unit etc their supposed running cost benefits take a bit of a hit. Although I still prefer the torque of my diesel over a petrol, so it's just a cost you have to bear.
Matt
 
There are cleaning companies out there that will sort out a clogged up dpf for a lot less than the cost of replacement.

The things are undoubtedly a pain in the butt though. I have to take our diesel Jag out for a long run every month to make sure there aren’t any problems. I also put in a dpf cleaning additive every now and then. Kind of negates some of the fuel savings of a diesel really.
 
I would have thought that a Norwich to Nottingham trip would be far enough for a regen cycle to clear the DPF but it could be that the thing is clogged with ash rather than unprocessed particulates. Personally, I'd go down the "get the selling dealer to fix it" route, although that might entail a trip back up to (and back from) Nottingham. Just seen an answer in Honest John's Telegraph column where he says that a company called Ceramex can chemically clean DPFs for about £400 each (replacements could be closer to a grand...)
 
I get a DPF warning light come up (according to the manual) when the DPF starts to clog at which point you are meant to go for a spirited drive to blow it out. In over 5 years of having the car it's never come up. It was one of the things that put me off a diesel when I bought it but I am wondering if it's a bit over hyped.
 
mIne is past 180k and still going strong. I don't do many short runs, and have no hesitation of putting the rev counter past 5000rpm through a couple of bends every now and then. "Snail speed" drivers should steer clear to petrol equivalents.

In fairness not all DPF implementations are equal. Some are just rubbish. I know VW Euro IV was utter trash compared with later Euro V. etc.
 
Albeit expensive.

Some are actually not too expensive if you buy aftermarket. Hyundai EuroIV for example is around £200 + labour but VW is £5-800 ++. It is more fun to have a spirited drive once in a week and know you are saving money :)
 
I was quoted £800 to replace dpf unit for my Focus about 5 years ago, admittedly main dealers. Cost about £80 to top up fluid at 70k miles. Existing 2.0 Focus diesel has just hit 70k miles so expecting the warning light soon despite doing reasonable revs periodically.
 
I was quoted £800 to replace dpf unit for my Focus about 5 years ago, admittedly main dealers. Cost about £80 to top up fluid at 70k miles. Existing 2.0 Focus diesel has just hit 70k miles so expecting the warning light soon despite doing reasonable revs periodically.

I would buy a high level diagnostic kit and check the filter load, and maybe force a regen if it looks too close. You can at least base your future decisions based on that. £800 is a nasty bill for just one item. You can be sure the dealers will quote another that for a few various things during the same visit.

That's still nothing compared to tens or hundreds of failing bottom ends of Jags and insignias every week (source: ebay).
 
Take it back and swap it for a.petrol hybrid.
 
This ^ benefit of both worlds: economy + low down torque combined with simpler system. Especially the simple planetary drive system offered in Toyota hybrids.



For DPF, you can try VW DPF app on Android if yours is a VAG car. My Skoda Euro 5 has 78k on it, the app is reading 28.8g in this "ash residue" box, with a 30% written on it. This seems to suggest at 150-200k the DPF will be spent. I'll need to sell it after another 60k.

There are 2 things clog up the DPF: 1: particulates. 2: ash residue. When you drive, particulates are collected in the DPF. When it regenerates, particulates are mostly burned off, leaving small amount of ash residue. When this residue is full, the DPF is considered has reached end of life. Also, I believe when the residue is almost full, there's more chance of unsuccessful regeneration, hence my estimate on my car's DPF lifespan.
 
I dont think it's necessary just long drives that are needed. The exhaust needs to get hot, so if you're pootling along the motorway that may not help.

As for the usual anti diesel comments, my colleage gets 35 to the gallon on a good day from his petrol hybrid. I get 60+ on my 13 year old derv. The hybrid technology sucks especially for longer commute.
 
I dont think it's necessary just long drives that are needed. The exhaust needs to get hot, so if you're pootling along the motorway that may not help.

As for the usual anti diesel comments, my colleage gets 35 to the gallon on a good day from his petrol hybrid. I get 60+ on my 13 year old derv. The hybrid technology sucks especially for longer commute.

he must have a real donkey then maybe one of those made up hybrid truck PHEV.
even the humble prius does 68mpg and that is real and tested mpg.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/view-ca....8-vvt-i-active-auto-petrol-hybrid-automatic/
 
In town I'm sure you'll get close with charged battery. Do a 100mile country trip and you will be happy to report half of those figures as you will be effectively running a simple nonturbo petrol while hauling idle battery weight
Probably doesnt weigh as much as my camera bag though :-)
 
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpf_ash.php

This article discusses ash formation and contains further useful references.

In short ash is mainly due to burnt oil residues. So you must be careful to match oil spec and only use low ash premium oils
 
In town I'm sure you'll get close with charged battery. Do a 100mile country trip and you will be happy to report half of those figures as you will be effectively running a simple nonturbo petrol while hauling idle battery weight
That's not true at all. You can still see benefit during higher speed driving. Whenever you are slowing down, you can bank energy into the hybrid batteries, whenever you are going down hill, whenever you'd use the brakes, whenever your ICE has rotational energy to spare. All those energy can then be used to power the car, reducing load on ICE.

The plug-in hybrids are different, they are quite pointless by having a heavy battery but not large enough to forego ICE.


I own an EV and a diesel. The EV can harvest energy down hill or slowing down, the brakes are only really used to come to a complete stop or during emergency. The driving experience is much better than ICE car thanks to this ability to harvest energy and slow down. People call this one pedal driving.

(another benefit of EV: no more frosted windows in the morning as you can pre-heat the car on a timer or remote control. Always get into a car with perfect temperature)
 
How much does preheating reduce range should you be parked where you can't charge the EV overnight? What's the range like when driven like a "normal" car of a similar size in a similar way?
 
How much does preheating reduce range should you be parked where you can't charge the EV overnight? What's the range like when driven like a "normal" car of a similar size in a similar way?
Not wanting to derail this thread...... but since you asked, I'll just share some of my experience. Do tag me in any EV related thread.

My EV is a Nissan Leaf 24kWh, the first-gen ones made in UK (slightly improved to very first gen Japanese ones). PCP started at 3 years old for 3 years. Battery life is at 95%, can drive ~70 miles in winter and ~90 miles in summer. I pay £115 per month on this top-spec Leaf and get 2 yr free servicing, 1 yr Nissan warranty, 2 yr EV components warranty left, also free home charger install. I drive 60 miles commute, this costs £30 pm in electricity. So in total it costs under £150pm. The diesel I traded in costs £160-180 just in fuel for the same commute.

Pre-heating while not plugged-in only works for 15min (plugged in it goes for 2 hours). The car is warm within 5min, that uses around 3 miles, this is what I usually do when leaving work. But I don't think 5min pre-heat is enough to melt the ice....... if we extrapolate that to 15min, it'd probably use 7-8 miles due to cabin reaching temperature so heater power can be reduced. 15min will definitely melt the ice, that's sometimes when I get into my car in the morning.

The 70 miles winter range is when driven spiritedly at below 40mph roads (eg traffic light GP, use the EV's instant torque for fun, can match Audi S3, Focus RS 0-30mph) but driven timidly on motorway (think 60mph cruise, slow down rather than overtake when encounter slower car uphill). People have reported 50 miles absolute worst case (-5c winter, toasty cabin, 70mph all the way). Unlike ICE cars, with this tiny battery EV, power delivery is 100% from stand still but feels like a lemon after 50mph. It's intended as local runabout for 2 car family, you'd still need an ICE car for any long distance travel. The new Leaf 40kWh is said to do 110 miles in absolute worse condition, close to 200 miles in ideal condition. It's just-about passable for those who very occasionally drive long distance by using rapid chargers that recharge back to 80% within 40min to allow you to continue your journey, 1:30 hr motorway hop between breaks. Daily driving, range isn't an issue, just plug it in at night.



Because I drive 60 miles a day, 25 miles EV range PHEV at extortionate price don't really work. We occasionally need a second car, so might as well run EV as second car. But now, the EV is our main car gets driven every day, because it is far cheaper to fuel and much, much nicer to drive. Once I can buy a Tesla Model 3, I'll be replacing the ICE car with an EV.

EV servicing can be cheaply easily DIY'd, there are so little to service: only cabin air filter and brake fluid every 2 years on the Leaf, everything else is general inspection. No powertrain related stuff need maintenance, there is very little moving part. The battery degradation is very gradual and visible, won't strand you in the road. At current rate, I'd expect our Leaf to last until at least 10 years old and still able to do 40+ miles locally, perfect for school runs. £9000 car gets used for 7+ years with less than £50 servicing every 2 years and costs 2p per mile in fuel...... I can't think of a cheaper as reliable secondary car, even if it has zero resale value afterwards.

100k miles Nissan Leaf taxi with near perfect battery health and still on original brake pads: https://www.zap-map.com/electric-taxi-company-clocks-100000-miles-in-nissan-leaf/
Similar maths worked out by post #5 here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1513170
 
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@wuyanxu Brilliant article matey, very well written. Just goes to show how capable these vehicles are bearing in mind average joes commute.
You will never convice people that occasionally need to drive to the moon and back once a year but as you say right car for the right commute and so reasonable cost to run.
 
Do you (Wuyan) own the battery or rent it? I've seen costs on rented ones that exceed our town car's fuel costs. Also looking for an electric moped but want to see and ride one - no local dealers though!
 
I own the whole car including the battery outright, after final PCP payment. All PCP payments added together plus my trade-in car's value come to around £9120 IIRC. This battery rental rubbish was the single thing that put us off the Renault Zoe, a much better looking car.



The dealership network is electric vehicle's biggest barrier. It is in their interest to have the car come back every year for maintenance. But that is no longer needed in an EV, there are far less work needed for an EV, it's also not messy so it is easier to DIY. There is definitely no chance to push (snake) oil additives.
For example this is Tesla's service checklist: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-service-plan-checklist/ Only Tesla specialist is only required for coolant flush. Everything else is not drivetrain related and any garage can do it.
So the solution at many dealers are to ignore EV. SpeakEV forum have many stories where BMW, Mini, VW dealers keep delaying EV test drives. There is more customer questions to deal with, and less profit margin when manufacturers can't meet demand. (VW are delaying their e-Golf delivery by months!)

I've no experience on moped...... but I imagine shorter range is less of a problem with them because you won't ride it for hours at high speeds........
 
I own the whole car including the battery outright, after final PCP payment. All PCP payments added together plus my trade-in car's value come to around £9120 IIRC. This battery rental rubbish was the single thing that put us off the Renault Zoe, a much better looking car.



The dealership network is electric vehicle's biggest barrier. It is in their interest to have the car come back every year for maintenance. But that is no longer needed in an EV, there are far less work needed for an EV, it's also not messy so it is easier to DIY. There is definitely no chance to push (snake) oil additives.
For example this is Tesla's service checklist: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-service-plan-checklist/ Only Tesla specialist is only required for coolant flush. Everything else is not drivetrain related and any garage can do it.
So the solution at many dealers are to ignore EV. SpeakEV forum have many stories where BMW, Mini, VW dealers keep delaying EV test drives. There is more customer questions to deal with, and less profit margin when manufacturers can't meet demand. (VW are delaying their e-Golf delivery by months!)

I've no experience on moped...... but I imagine shorter range is less of a problem with them because you won't ride it for hours at high speeds........

absolutely right about the dealer networks getting scared matey all the money they will lose on pointless servicing and botched repairs.
yep the writing is on the wall for a lot of garage workers down the line.
 
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