Double refund?

CaveDweller

CaveDweller

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Paul
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I ordered a toy (that stupid alien thing with the runny nose) from Asda by click and collect. I picked it up and when I got home I thought the box looked a bit dodgy so I checked it over. Found out it had previously been used because the screw for the battery compartment was rounded off and it already had batteries in...also it didn't work.

I was fuming because the nearest Asda to me is a good 1hr30min drive away. Took it back to the store and they put a refund through for me on the computer and said it would be with me in a few days. I said that wasn't good enough because my kids birthday is tomorrow so I'd have to go out and buy another, they then gave me a cash refund.

Got home today and checked the bank and found out that they proceeded with the card refund and the money has gone back in my account.

Do they have a leg to stand on to take that money back? or are they even able to take it back now that it's gone in my bank? It was their mess up in the first place for selling me a dodgy product that had clearly been used/broken before.

Think what you want about me but if they don't take it...I ain't telling them :rolleyes:
 
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Well they certainly have no access to your account to recoup the refund.
 
neil_g said:
Depends how much it is, if it's a reasonable amount then I would expect them to be in contact :)
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£64.99, a ridiculous amount for a ridiculous toy, but it's all he's asked for for his birthday (y) it's just like a disgusting furby.
 
Yes they can recoup money. But they may not even notice.

I'll see you in hell :D
 
johnnypanic said:
Yes they can recoup money. But they may not even notice.

I'll see you in hell :D
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If they didn't notice at the time I doubt they ever will, but I'll leave it there for a while and see what happens. I didn;t even notice at the time till I checked my bank otherwise I probably would have said something.

I'll hang my head in shame:D
 
In theory yes they can debit the account again to reclaim the over refund as I remember seeing it done once with an elderly customer in slightly different circumstances it is however unlikely to happen I'd guess
 
In theory yes, in likelihood no, given they effectively gave you a second hand non working item (potentially unknowingly - maybe some idiot put the faulty one back into stock or returns.)

I would suggest the double refund offsets against your time and fuel for inconvienience.
 
CaveDweller said:
If they didn't notice at the time I doubt they ever will, but I'll leave it there for a while and see what happens. I didn;t even notice at the time till I checked my bank otherwise I probably would have said something.

I'll hang my head in shame:D
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It might take them a little time but if their accounts dept are worth their salt they'll notice.
 
A neighbour of mine had 2 televisions delivered from the same supplier on different days. They assumed that the supplier would realise this and contact them to get one back. They never did.
 
SarahLee said:
Never mind the refund, is anyone else intrigued about what this alien thing with a runny nose actually is?

A Google search doesn't bring up anything likely.
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I think its this one, Sarah
 
From some of the answers above it seems the feeling is Asda can recoup the money from your bank account Paul, but would your bank allow them to reclaim it?

This reminds me of the cases where an individual transfers money but enters the details incorrectly (made a mistake in the account number or sort code) so someone else gets the money. In all the cases I have heard of the bank that receives the money says as the money was transferred legally (if incorrectly) all they can do is inform the recipient of the incorrect transfer but they cannot return the money.

Isn't this the same here?

Dave
 
neil_g said:
It might take them a little time but if their accounts dept are worth their salt they'll notice.
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They'll notice but whether they can tie it all up or choose to do anything about it is another matter.

I worked in the accounts dept for a national retailer many years ago managing the team that looked after shops' bankings / daily returns.
Back then, all we would have been able to see is that their records didn't balance by £64.99 for that day once the credit card refund had been processed.
We'd see two refunds for the same product processed in quick succession, but we wouldn't have been able to tie the cash refund back to a specific transaction / customer so while we might suspect what had happened given the timing of the transactions we could never have proved it.
The most likely outcome would have been that the difference was written off (really not worth the hassle for such a small amount in the overall scheme of things) and the shop would have received a slap on the wrist for not following proper procedures . . . or the cashier would have been placed under internal audit scrutiny if we suspected a scam.

POS systems have probably moved on quite a bit in the last 15 years though, so it may be easier for them to trace and attempt to recover.


BTW I am NOT inciting you to carry out dishonest behaviour :lol:
 
SarahLee said:
They'll notice but whether they can tie it all up or choose to do anything about it is another matter.

I worked in the accounts dept for a national retailer many years ago managing the team that looked after shops' bankings / daily returns.
Back then, all we would have been able to see is that their records didn't balance by £64.99 for that day once the credit card refund had been processed.
We'd see two refunds for the same product processed in quick succession, but we wouldn't have been able to tie the cash refund back to a specific transaction / customer so while we might suspect what had happened given the timing of the transactions we could never have proved it.
The most likely outcome would have been that the difference was written off (really not worth the hassle for such a small amount in the overall scheme of things) and the shop would have received a slap on the wrist for not following proper procedures . . . or the cashier would have been placed under internal audit scrutiny if we suspected a scam.

POS systems have probably moved on quite a bit in the last 15 years though, so it may be easier for them to trace and attempt to recover.


BTW I am NOT inciting you to carry out dishonest behaviour :LOL:
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agreed. asda may or may not decide to pursue it.

we (IT for a much smaller national retailer) used to get tasked with data interrogation from the tills for stuff like this to tie it back to a customer/transaction. but like i say, much smaller retailer compared to asda so every penny helped :)
 
Tringa said:
This reminds me of the cases where an individual transfers money but enters the details incorrectly (made a mistake in the account number or sort code) so someone else gets the money. In all the cases I have heard of the bank that receives the money says as the money was transferred legally (if incorrectly) all they can do is inform the recipient of the incorrect transfer but they cannot return the money.

Dave
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I agree that the bank can't reverse the transaction, and aren't under any obligation to reimburse the money, but doesn't it constitute theft by the recipient?

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly".
 
I'm not sure, Martyn. I wonder if "dishonestly appropriates" requires the person to have actively done something themselves to obtain the property. In these sort of cases the recipient of the money has done nothing themselves. However, in the ones that make the news, they have also done nothing to correct the fault. Is keeping something that you do not own also theft, even if you did not steal it yourself, or is it something else?

Dave
 
Tringa said:
I'm not sure, Martyn. I wonder if "dishonestly appropriates" requires the person to have actively done something themselves to obtain the property. In these sort of cases the recipient of the money has done nothing themselves. However, in the ones that make the news, they have also done nothing to correct the fault. Is keeping something that you do not own also theft, even if you did not steal it yourself, or is it something else?

Dave
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http://www.money.co.uk/article/1005...-accidentally-paid-into-your-bank-account.htm
 
Why would you think about taking money that you are not entitled to?
Asking for compensation for your time and traveling costs is justified but profiting from their mistake is not.
I must remember not to buy anything from you in the Classifieds.
 
Suvv said:
Why would you think about taking money that you are not entitled to?
Asking for compensation for your time and traveling costs is justified but profiting from their mistake is not.
I must remember not to buy anything from you in the Classifieds.
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seems to be a growing attitude of "well its their fault so stuff em".

i bought a (faulty) hudl2 recently from tesco store about 30 mins drive from me. did i expect fuel costs when i went to exchange it? no, why would i as i chose to buy it in store rather than order it online where i would have benefited from distance selling rules and them arranging a courier to collect.
 
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Tringa said:
I'm not sure, Martyn. I wonder if "dishonestly appropriates" requires the person to have actively done something themselves to obtain the property. In these sort of cases the recipient of the money has done nothing themselves. However, in the ones that make the news, they have also done nothing to correct the fault. Is keeping something that you do not own also theft, even if you did not steal it yourself, or is it something else?

Dave
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It's analogous to finding lost property. You don't have a right to keep something that doesn't belong to you, and the law imposes certain obligations. The easiest way to discharge them is to report it to the police or, in this case, the bank.
 
Suvv said:
Why would you think about taking money that you are not entitled to?
Asking for compensation for your time and traveling costs is justified but profiting from their mistake is not.
I must remember not to buy anything from you in the Classifieds.
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I don't sell on here anyway so no skin off my back (y) Everyone has their ways (if you don't like mine there's an ignore button) and I don't intend on spending it. I'm actually leaving it there to see if they take it back because I'm curious if they can or not. If not I'll get in contact with them next week.

It's nice to see how mad people easily get;)
 
Thanks for the link Sharky. It makes these cases more interesting. The receiving bank says they cannot do anything, but if the person sending the money can show it was due to go to someone else (eg the correct account number is similar to the 'wrong' one, the person/company who should have received the money verifies it, communication showing a transaction was to be made) then the bank has proof one of their customers has committed an offence and should report it to the police.

Dave
 
They probably won't bother. I wouldn't say anything.

I had a similar thing with Tesco. I ordered a large Lego Technic set for about £100 from them and they just put in a bin bag to be delivered, with no protection. The delivery driver just through it over an 8 foot wall into the back garden when it was raining. The box got damaged and wet, so I complained to Tesco, who said they'll send out a replacement and pick up the damaged one. The delivery driver dropped of the replacement, but knew nothing about picking up. Expecting a call from Tesco to pick this up at another time, I left it for about a year. When I heard nothing I put it on ebay and got over £100 for it, as it was no longer available.
 
Asda might well not notice or not bother.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's not your money and you're not entitled to it. The only correct thing to do is to give the money back. But you knew that anyway, of course.
 
I'm not keeping/spending it. I'm simply just testing out whether they will do something or not. So far it's still in there.
 
You are keeping it Paul, it's your responsibility to contact them to tell them of the error whether it goes in your favour or not. Past experience with Tesco in a similar situation saw them say that's ok, keep it and that was for over £200 worth of furniture.
 
SarahLee said:
They'll notice but whether they can tie it all up or choose to do anything about it is another matter.

.... The most likely outcome would have been that the difference was written off (really not worth the hassle for such a small amount in the overall scheme of things) and the shop would have received a slap on the wrist for not following proper procedures . . . or the cashier would have been placed under internal audit scrutiny if we suspected a scam.
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Aren't we straight back to the other thread about Frankies and Bennies and their complaining diner?

It seems that Paul complained that Asda's refund policy wasn't good enough for him so the store staff went out if their way to keep him happy. If Asda now slap the store on the wrist, it's another example of the distant head-office management betrayal I mentioned; they did nothing wrong, indeed they tried to satisfy a dissatisfied customer and he "benefits and gets away with it" and they get told off for it!
 
If it was me I would fire off a quick email to them. There's every chance you'll get a reply saying keep the money.

I'm not pretending to be Little Miss Perfect, i'm far from it, but some months £65 is not a lot of money and other months it is. Knowing my luck they'd find the error on a month that £65 is a lot.
 
Tringa said:
From some of the answers above it seems the feeling is Asda can recoup the money from your bank account Paul, but would your bank allow them to reclaim it?

This reminds me of the cases where an individual transfers money but enters the details incorrectly (made a mistake in the account number or sort code) so someone else gets the money. In all the cases I have heard of the bank that receives the money says as the money was transferred legally (if incorrectly) all they can do is inform the recipient of the incorrect transfer but they cannot return the money.

Isn't this the same here?

Dave
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No because the example you gave is say I try to pay you, but pay someone else instead, up to the honesty of the 3rd person, otherwise, yes I am out of luck.

This example is 2 refunds to the same account that purchased the originals.
 
Keep it and send the upset people on here a xmas card so they don't feel left out!! I'd keep it and spend it if it was me! Entitled to it or not, mistakes happen and if they recall it back no loss there!

It would show up on the till at asda if they looked into it that 2 refunds were made on the same day for same amount!
 
Well... it'll show up as 'bad debt', but whether or not they try to retreive it depends entirely on how big or small an amount it is, and how busy the staff are that deal with that side of things.
As an example, a customer owing something like £12 has been completely ignored because my manager is chasing an £80 debt.
 
Lynton said:
No because the example you gave is say I try to pay you, but pay someone else instead, up to the honesty of the 3rd person, otherwise, yes I am out of luck.
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Not exactly. The money doesn't belong to the 3rd party, and he commits a criminal offence if he fails to take steps to reimburse it. The onus is on him, and you could also sue for restitution.

There are a couple of defences to the criminal charge, if he can satisfy the court that he genuinely hadn't noticed the unexplained credit, or was expecting a deposit of the same amount, but that wouldn't nullify his civil liability.
 
Don't want to hijack this thread but just read this in the December Which magazine -

"First Direct, HSBC and Nationwide have rewritten their terms and conditions to make it clear that mistaken payments can be returned." "Barclays, RBS and Santander have no plans to change their terms, ..."

Dave
 
You can bet your bottom dollar that if they had charged you twice, and you had not noticed, they would not be chasing you down to rectify their error. I know that from experience, and it was Tesco.
 
viv1969 said:
You can bet your bottom dollar that if they had charged you twice, and you had not noticed, they would not be chasing you down to rectify their error. I know that from experience, and it was Tesco.
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Quite likely true, but not relevant.
 
viv1969 said:
You can bet your bottom dollar that if they had charged you twice, and you had not noticed, they would not be chasing you down to rectify their error. I know that from experience, and it was Tesco.
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They didn't chase me down because they tried to cancel the card refund and then gave me cash right after.
 
StewartR said:
Quite likely true, but not relevant.
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Of course it's relevant.
It was as much their responsibility to return the overcharged money to me, as it is for the OP to do the opposite.
 
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