Does the [electric] guitar really matter? (GAS thread)

[Harlequin565]

I have a Gretsch Electromatic electric guitar that I love. I think it was around £600 new. I also have a Spark practise amp for kicking around at home. I'm not in a band, don't gig any more, and just hack around at home for fun and learning. I was/am not very good, but can make it sound okay playing the songs I like. I used to play in a band, and it was a case of "the cheapest I can afford" so sound quality was never a factor. I've never been a guitar afficionado, just a player with instruments I can afford - which have generally been "cheap".

Recently, YouTube seems to be sending me reviews of various guitars at very expensive price points, but they all sound the same. When it comes to photography, I've never seen a difference between prints done on a calibrated screen vs prints done on a non-calibrated screen. With cameras, I think the difference between an R6 and an R6II is absolutely not worth the "upgrade" because the difference isn't worth the money. I wonder if perhaps I don't have the level of discernment that the marketeers (and influencers) do.

So I come to the TP Lounge to ask: Does the guitar really matter, apart from pickup choice? Once you get over the £500 bar, is it a case of very small incremental improvements that are perhaps so small, an ignorant uneducated ear might not pick up (no pun intended) on it? We've had crap guitars in the charity shop. The frets are knackered, the electronics are crackly, they are hard to play, the whole thing feels cheap (it probably was), so there is a clear improvement between "entry level" and whatever £600 is classed as, but once you get into that territory, I'm struggling to understand where the value lies other than in the name on the headstock.

A guitar's "sound" is surely as much from the amp as it is the guitar, if not moreso, so how much of a part does the guitar really play (again, no pun intended) in the delivery of the sound?

Caveat: Not talking about acoustic guitars. With them, the sound is the sound, and the form factor makes a difference, so I can hear & feel what I'm getting and in my experience, cheaper acoustics generally sound worse than expensive ones until you hit around the £1k mark.

Geez, this took a while to type. I'll shut up now...

 

[Pixbarmy]

This could be a huge can of worms, so here's my half pennyworth! Sound/hearing is just one of our senses and the quality of any perceived sound depends on the hearer's ability to actually hear as much as possible. That is to say that my 70+ years hearing isn't a patch on my hearing in my "yoof"! That's down to years of abuse by myself, using all things "noisy" and a lack of hearing protection in my workplace (another story for another day!). Most of our beloved guitar "heroes" are now very deaf due to standing very close to very large speakers over the years! The "modern" effects units and amplifiers etc., filter out a lot of unwanted buzz, hiss and crackle, that would have been the "norm" at one time, so it all depends what you are comparing. As with anything manufactured, there will be, as you say, a vast drop off in the curve of the graph of expense versus quality of sound and technology. I was looking at the technology of a "tremelo" (vibrato) guitar, with all sorts of locking mechanisms to keep the guitar in tune, during use. Fascinating but would take ages to change a string, due to the complexity! Again, the "tremelo" effect can be added by the modern effects unit! A well set up, run of the mill instrument, can sound better than a poorly maintained, top of the range item!

I seem to remember Hank's answer to the question of why he changed guitars so often in his later performances, was "Because I can afford to now!"

 

[Harlequin565]

That is to say that my 70+ years hearing isn't a patch on my hearing in my "yoof"! That's down to years of abuse by myself, using all things "noisy" and a lack of hearing protection in my workplace (another story for another day!)

That's interesting. I have permanent, pretty bad, tinnitus which I attribute pretty much exclusively to too many "front of the speaker stack" gigs in my youth (and well into my "late youth" too). I can still detect a sound I like vs one I don't though (i.e. good speakers vs bad ones). Ultimately I guess everything is subjective, but overall it is good news for me.

I hate changing strings.

 

[lindsay]

I have a number of guitars, from my younger days and since, even though (barring a brief foray for a few weeks 20 years ago) I gave up playing in a band about 50 years ago. I always wanted to take it up again but just jamming for fun, not got around to it yet but who knows? Anyway, I'm not that good although I used to be a decent bassist playing blues. Hence I still have my Fender Precision bass. But I could always hear the difference between a Fender bass and a Rickenbacker, which has a telltale growl, and I did have a Status Classic Deluxe bass for a while that had a distinctive ound (as played by John Entwistle but I could never make it sound like he did).
I have a Fender Strat (Mexican) that cost £600 new about 22 years ago, it's nice, good sounding, but nothing too special, whereas I do think I can identify a Gibson Les Paul sound and maybe an SG. Although I think it mostly depends on the guitarist - you can tell it's Clapton when you hear him, and you can tell Carlos Santana when he plays. I have a Gordon Smith electric guitar too, handmade in Northamptonshire, which to me sounds sharper than the Fender, but then it has twin Humbucker pickups so maybe that makes the difference?
I guess I don't have the answer, but I can tell sometimes. But I too have tinnitus, and I'll now say it was from head banging in front of Marshall stacks and playing in front of a big bass stack a fair bit in a heavy metal band that was the forerunner of Killing Joke.

 

[Harlequin565]

But I too have tinnitus, and I'll now say it was from head banging in front of Marshall stacks and playing in front of a big bass stack a fair bit in a heavy metal band that was the forerunner of Killing Joke.

o7

I've always assumed that the difference between the Strat and the Les Paul is down to the pickups. I love that humbucker sound because the single coil sounds too "clean" for my liking whatever the tone. But I've not had a wide experience and assume that much of the "sound" that comes from a particular musician comes from the effect rather than the guitar.

 

[ancient_mariner]

OK, gigging guitarist (2 this weekend with a ceilidh band) amp designer and builder, tone-hunter, pedal fan here.

The guitar makes a difference, but it's only part of the chain.

I play guitars at all price points, and there are good guitars, great guitars and nasty sucky guitars. Spend a bit more and you more likely to get something OK, but it's by no means guaranteed and brand name doesn't count for too much either. Key things about choosing electric guitars is that they feel good in your hands: that means they are comfortable to play, they feel alive and responsive before you plug them in - a lifeless, unresponsive guitar is always going to be that, and it will come through when you're plugged in too. Tone-wise they should be typical for a guitar of that type, but you can swap pickups, bridges and trems, electronics etc to tweak the sound into something close to what you wanted. Want a spanky, snappy, quacky and direct sound - play a strat. Want a thicker tone tone with some power behind it, good for rock and good for jazz - pick a Les Paul. Want muscular bite and bark or something that goes KEERRRAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGGGGG - pick a Tele. Etc.

There's a huge amount in set-up too.

Setting up will not make a dull, lifeless guitar OK, but it will make a guitar that's hard to play, badly intonated, rattly and buzzy work properly and be much easier to play. If you can't do set-ups yourself then it's really worth paying someone. My cheapest guitar cost me £35 - I set it up for slide and gigged with it for a few years before spending £300 on a Harley Benton that's now my main slide guitar. I've also regularly played out with a £70 AXL Tele copy, a used and abused Dean baby V (£50 on ebay) a MIM strat that I bought as a basket case for £115 and a fretless Yanaha 5 string bass for £75. It may be that the used instruments going through the charity shop really are garbage, but there might well be some gems in there too - overlook the slight battle to play and instead see if the instruments come alive in your hand when given a strum.

But sound.

Tricky.

Sound is only a bit down to the guitar. The amp type and design you use makes a big difference. The speaker type makes a very big difference. The cab it's in makes a difference. Any pedals along the way ditto, and even the cables too. I don't have golden ears that can listen blind and tell you "that's a 50W Two Rock head being played through an open-backed pine cab loaded with Celection Vintage 30s", but I can hear the difference between the various speaker and cab types when I'm playing, and have a bunch of speakers that I've tried over the years.

Your spark amp really, really sucks for tone. Sorry. I bought a mini practice amp a couple of years back, settling on a Vox 'Handbag' (Adio Air - if you see a picture you'll know what I mean) because it seemed to have the best sound of that type, but ALL the small practice amps don't really sound great. For home practice it's really difficult, because volume that comes from pushing an amp and speaker is what makes a guitar feel responsive and is most likely to give those tones that make you weak at the knees. I always come back to valves, and whether you need a big loud amp or a smaller on, they always sound the best. Modelling is very versatile, but doesn't have the sweetness.

Speakers too. I've probably written enough.....

Pedals..... another day.

The guitar matters. The type, yes for the *kind* of tones it produces. But more important is the individual bits of wood, screwed or glued together, the fretwork, the hardware and how it's been set up. Not the price. Not the country of origin, although I like Japanese guitars but haven't kept any US-made guitars. I've tried PRS but found them generally bland and uninspiring. Had a Gibson V for a little while, but was really pleased to sell it. When I wanted a Les Paul I tried a bunch of Gibsons and was very disappointed, but did buy a Tokai Love Rock. Your Gretsch is probably a great instrument - play it and enjoy it.

 

[Harlequin565]

Your spark amp really, really sucks for tone.

Hah... I guess my ears are broken because it sounds great to me. I played bass in the band, but my brother played guitar and he spent everything he had on a valve amp which - as you say - has a lovely rich sound quality. But light it was not.

For me, it was about choosing something versatile, easy to move around, and that sounded ok. I'm never going to gig with it - it's more of a meditation & relaxation thing.

I think it's the camera adage that says "before you upgrade, figure out what you're missing from your current kit". Do I need more guitars? - no. Could I improve on what I have by spending (say) £2k? I'm not sure - because I haven't hit any limitations (of equipment) yet.

I think I just got lucky in getting something that works well for me. I'm even reluctant to get it "set up" (no idea how to do it myself) in case it buggers up what already seems to be a perfectly fine guitar to play.

Thanks for all the detailed feedback folks!

 

[Pixbarmy]

Just a quickie! The position that you hold the guitar can affect how you pluck/strum, in that you may hit/stroke/pluck the strings at a different angle. Think flamenco/classical, with the guitar almost upright versus the arm in line with the strings. It's a minefield I tell you. The angle of dangle is very important!

 

[F1.2]

I own 2 gee tars and can't / don't play either of them , Nice to look at , I also have a Orange amp that I have never plugged in or turned on.
Strange the thing I do,

 

[ancient_mariner]

I think it's the camera adage that says "before you upgrade, figure out what you're missing from your current kit". Do I need more guitars? - no. Could I improve on what I have by spending (say) £2k? I'm not sure - because I haven't hit any limitations (of equipment) yet.

For me, guitars and cameras are quite different. In general if I get a new guitar I'm probably not going to play faster, keep better time or reach more difficult chords - the equivalent of higher frame rate, better AF or focus stacking in camera.

But it will feel different, and if that's something you respond to as I do - I'm not at all a technical player, working mostly by how I feel - then it can make a world of difference. My guitars are all my friends, many with emotional attachments and a lot of memories. My oldest I've had since I was 17 = 46 years, although it's retired now.

 

[lindsay]

Old guitars as friends - I do so wish I had never sold my original 1967 Fender Mustang bass. It was and sounded great, it suited my smallish hands, but it went. It is missed.

 

[woof woof]

From my electronics days... different components make a difference to a signal as do different wires and cables and even the length and shape of a track on a board and it all adds up through the device and the longer chain the device fits into. These differences can be seen on a scope. Some say these things can be detected by humans and some say they can not be.

If this is you passion you probably lean towards the view that humans can detect these differences and if that's the case everything matters.

 

[Pixbarmy]

As my eyes can no longer read the menus/sub menus etc on my camera, and any of you guys have a guitar that you want to swap??? Please get in touch! I'm in Norfolk by the way! Bought as a retirement present to myself and very underused, due to having a car accident, which severely limited my "travels"!

 

[ancient_mariner]

Got back a few minutes ago, winding down now with a G&T.

Tonight I used a JJ goldtop with Dimarzio mini humbuckers instead of the usual P90s they used to fit. I haven't played that for a few years, but it really rocks with a bit of mild overdrive through a valve amp. The neck is a little chunky but not base-ball bat sized, body slightly small and the weight around 6 1/2lb. I swapped a strap with another guitar that left it a little bit long, and the bass player thought I was channelling Pete Townsend - funny for a ceilidh. I was only bashing out chords most of the time for people dancing, but it's still great fun to play a nice instrument through kit that favours warm and happy tones.

This was taken in 2006 and it wasn't new then - must have had it 20 years now.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Just in case anyone cares, here's my guitar-buying history, copied from a thread in Harmony Central. This spans nearly 50 years and I only have about 10 electric, 3 bass and 2 acoustic guitars now.

As near as I can in order....


Eko small-body steel strung acoustic. Bought some time in early '78

No-name neck, body and pre-wired pickguard from the 1960's assembled from bits to make a sort-of electric guitar.

Columbus Les Paul

Dynelectron copy of a Danelectro Guitarlin (bought used in '79, still have it).

Shaftesbury EBO Bass copy

Shaftesbury 12 string (loaned to a girl who disappeared off to a squat in Birmingham UK around 1982-3

Aria acoustic 6 string. Sold to make way for....

Suzuki acoustic, bought new around '82-'83, re-fretted after about 15 years, still have it and play occasionally.

El Maya EM300/330 neck-through electric.

Shergold Matador - idiosyncratic guitar.

Japanese standard Strat, bought new in '89, still own & play regularly, my number 1 for many years, needs a refret.

Washburn A20V performer, now with Gibson 496/500T pickups, still own.

Godin Radiator - a nice little guitar.

Godin SD24 - like a Squier affinity series of the same era, but over-priced.

Switch solid with a foam-filled plastic body and neck, with built-in acoustic pickup.

Heritage H150CM

MIM Strat - belongs to my son, but I look after it.

Dean baby Z - belonged to my daughter, but I still look after it.

Washburn A15V

Godin xtSA - still own and use occasionally with Roland GR33.

Gibson Worn cherry flying V (badly made junk)

Dean Baby V - super cheap, played better than the Gibson, especially after a PU swap.

MIJ Strat in bits, bought/swapped for a pedal with Ben/Loobs of this forum. Still in bits in the cupboard.

JJ Goldtop custom, still have it, but not really used much now, bought 2004.

First Act Lola.

AXL Tele copy - really nice to play for a £60/$80 guitar.

Super cheap Tele-shaped GLO from Ebay.

Super-cheap plastic bowl-backed acoustic guitar from Ebay that played fine. Loaned to a friend to learn on and she refuses to give it back.

Tokai Love-Rock Japanese market only '59 LP replica with Burstbuckers, still have it, great Les Paul.

Fender Strat/Squier bought as a basket case, reassembled with BG pups (remember Bryan?) will be gigged this weekend with the Ceilidh band.

Budget J-type bass, on loan to a friend.

Ryder P-type bass, still have it.

Washburn Eagle series Hawk neckthrough, bought as timber & frets only, re-fitted, still play it occasionally.

Yamaha fretless 5 string bass, still have it.

Tanglewood concert size acoustic, bought for slide, sold to a neighbours daughter.

First act single cutaway bolt neck, bought for £35/$50m used for slide guitar.

Regal resonator,

Harley Benton Aeolus small-bodied semi, my go-to guitar for slide gigs right now, will be gigged this weekend. Bought Nov 2022.


That's it. I regret selling the Godin Radiator and the El Maya, the AXL Tele a little bit, but the rest not at all.

.

 

[foto-sf]

A thread about GAS with only 1 photo of a guitar?

Bassist here. I have high-end, mid-range and low-end stuff. The difference is not very big anymore. Most cheapies are quite good these days. Maybe swap out the pups.

With high end instruments you're paying for the name and country of origin. I'm over it.

 

[Harlequin565]

A thread about GAS with only 1 photo of a guitar?

In my case it's because I can't take any I like

Taking a nice photo of a whole guitar is far trickier than I thought it would be. I usually end up spending a couple of hours getting frustrated before giving up.

Not so bad with "bits of a guitar" though...

The Tak


My Yamaha...



The only photos I have of the Gretsch have bloody great fingermarks over them or big blobs of reflected light and it's embarassing to share as I should have spotted both. I ended up processing it to death...

 

[Edwardsson]

Old guitars as friends - I do so wish I had never sold my original 1967 Fender Mustang bass. It was and sounded great, it suited my smallish hands, but it went. It is missed.

Same hear. I’d a Fender Jazz Bass from 1963 or maybe 1964. I bought it as a bargain when I was only 16 years old. Tried to learn how to play the bass, never managed to. Nine years later I sold it and got nine times the price I bought it for. Had I kept it until now, I had got nearly ninety times the price I bought for, I should have kept it.

 

[Edwardsson]

I own 2 gee tars and can't / don't play either of them , Nice to look at , I also have a Orange amp that I have never plugged in or turned on.
Strange the thing I do,

Nowadays I’ve got one headless electric guitar (Hohner the Jack), one headless electric bass (Hohner the Jack)), and one acoustic guitar (PRV Parlor).

Since we moved to our new apartment a month ago, I have no room for all these beauties anymore. I will probably keep the acoustic one and sell the rest. Will sell the Supro Blues King 8 amp as well.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Nowadays I’ve got one headless electric guitar (Hohner the Jack), one headless electric bass (Hohner the Jack)), and one acoustic guitar (PRV Parlor).

Since we moved to our new apartment a month ago, I have no room for all these beauties anymore. I will probably keep the acoustic one and sell the rest. Will sell the Supro Blues King 8 amp as well.

Those are small instruments, and you still don't have space for them?

We will have to downsize in the next 10 years or so, or at least get rid of enough stuff to move house more easily. We will have been in the same house 35 years next summer.

 

[Edwardsson]

Those are small instruments, and you still don't have space for them?

We will have to downsize in the next 10 years or so, or at least get rid of enough stuff to move house more easily. We will have been in the same house 35 years next summer.

Downsized from 168 square metres to 79 square metres. Cannot keep both the guitars and the cameras, my wife said.