Beginner Did I miss something (preparing to shoot)?

[FireflyHeather]

Hi helpful people,

This is my first post!

I'd just like to know whether the checklist I've compiled for actually taking a photo is accurate and in the right order...

1 Set the camera to Aperture Value mode (unless it's a specific Time Value you need) and ISO higher or lower based on how light or dark it is

2 Set the camera to Auto Exposure Bracketing and bracket by a stop either side of the middle

3 Loosely frame the shot, getting an idea of where the darkest and lightest areas are

4 On spot metering, aim the centre of the viewfinder at the lightest area in the image and push the shutter button halfway down to take the meter reading. Press the star key, which is Auto Exposure lock.

5 Broadly focus, then finely focus the shot (maybe using Autofocus first), possibly backing up for greater depth of field and zooming in a bit if necessary to avoid fish-eye

6 Push the shutter button all the way down three times

7 On playback mode, check the histogram for an even curve that extends as far to the right as possible without clipping the edges. Whichever is the best exposed, recreate that exposure again, tweaking it a bit if you need to, before taking another shot (or bracketed set of shots for HDR use later)

8 Go through this process again for exposing the sky and the darkest areas correctly to do photomerge later

Does that make sensibles? Feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[KIPAX]

Yes you missed telling us what your photogrpahing and what your trying to achieve.. most of us wouldnt do most of the 8 points let alone all or in that order.. but we are all taking different types of shots for different reasons.. tell us what your shooting and it might make more sense

 

[snerkler]

1. Depends on what you're shooting and what you want to achieve from the shot
2. Again depends on what you want to shoot. Bracketing is only really useful for high contrast scenes with broad range of lights and darks such as landscapes. Depending on the scene you may want to bracket by 1, 2 or even 3 stops either side.
3 and 4. For most scenes matrix (wide) metering is sufficient and you don't need to use AEL.
5. Just use single point focus to focus on the subject. You don't need to broadly focus and then focus again. Dpeth of field is controlled by camera to subject distance AND aperture.
6. Not necessary unless you're bracketing.
7. Checking the histogram is useful to check for clipped highlights/shadows allowing you to shoot with a different exposure if needed. However, when bracketing you will find that the the ones with shifted exposure will have clipping.
8. Can do, but not really necessary as that's the point of bracketing initially anyway to expose for the whole scene then shadow bias and highlight bias.

 

[dinorock]

if i did all that every time i took a shot i'd have missed quite a few photos.like this little fella falling over and squashing his sister.


Squashed ! by Mike Rockey, on Flickr

 

[snerkler]

if i did all that every time i took a shot i'd have missed quite a few photos.like this little fella falling over and squashing his sister.


Squashed ! by Mike Rockey, on Flickr

Exactly, a lot of photography has to be taken within a split second and no time for all that faff

Nice shot btw.

 

[dinorock]

Exactly, a lot of photography has to be taken within a split second and no time for all that faff

Nice shot btw.

so set up your camera with the basic settings and adjust as required,the iso aperture and fstop may all require changing during a shoot depending on what you need. e.g. slow shutter for long exposure etc, hth mike

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would have given up phography seventy years ago if I had to do all that.
my camera is left on raw, ISO200, and aperture priority set about F4, mostly with the drive set to 3 shots a second.

When it is clear that I might take a shot I check that the aperture and shutter speed are suitable and that the histogm is about right.
Focus and shoot.(all at eye level)
Particular shots ... like panoramas require all manual settings.
I often use the camera set to manual focus, and take a single point focus using the afl button.
in tricky lighting especially back lit, I some times use the exposure lock button and reframe.
I only bracket exposure, when I want to use exposure fusion.

I would expect every shot to be well exposed.
All to be reasonably framed.
when taken on drive at least one out of the three to be well timed
and most, despite my now shakey hand, to be reasonably sharp.
Mostly photography is about anticipation, when you move into a new situation adjust your camera accordingly. You shold only require minor, if any, late stage adjustments.

 

[snerkler]

so set up your camera with the basic settings and adjust as required,the iso aperture and fstop may all require changing during a shoot depending on what you need. e.g. slow shutter for long exposure etc, hth mike

Unless shooting landscapes I use aperture priority with auto ISO, or manual but with auto ISO. 99.99999999% of the time I use single point AF.

 

[dinorock]

Unless shooting landscapes I use aperture priority with auto ISO, or manual but with auto ISO. 99.99999999% of the time I use single point AF.

very interesting i have NEVER used auto iso

 

[Phil V]

very interesting i have NEVER used auto iso

I never used auto ISO till I got the 6d, and on that I use it all the time until I want to shoot with flash.

 

[sbowler579]

Hello Heather and a very warm welcome to you. I think your over complicating things, if your new to using a DSLR then set aperture and auto ISO and let the camera do the rest. When your comfortable with those setting then start to experiment more.

Useful Sections for New Members (click links)

> The Help section contains some good general information about how we do things around here and how the forum works.
> FAQs and Guides can be found here.
> Forum Help and Support is there for you to ask questions and get one to one support if you're having problems finding your way around or working out how to do things.
> Link up with other photographers in your area for local events and days out in Meeting Place.
> Or maybe you fancy a challenge . . . Take a look at some of the organised TP challenges and competitions here.

 

[dinorock]

I never used auto ISO till I got the 6d, and on that I use it all the time until I want to shoot with flash.

each to there own phil but i spent years getting out of AUTO mode so i'll stick to knowing what my iso is not what my camera has randomly selected for me

 

[snerkler]

very interesting i have NEVER used auto iso

Works really well on the D750, in aperture priority it reduces shutter speed first and only raises ISO if needed. For certain things such as wildlife I want a fast shutter and want to shoot wide open so have these set in manual, having auto ISO just saves me having to constantly fiddle with this. In this scenario where I want A and S set the only variable is ISO so why not have it in auto, I'd only change it to the same setting as the camera anyway.

Likewise, I aperture priority it keeps ISO as low as possible, again something I'd always so anyway.

 

[Phil V]

each to there own phil but i spent years getting out of AUTO mode so i'll stick to knowing what my iso is not what my camera has randomly selected for me

I spent years with no option of Auto mode, it made me appreciate all the help my camera can give me , so I can concentrate on creating an image, rather than operating the equipment.

 

[woof woof]

each to there own phil but i spent years getting out of AUTO mode so i'll stick to knowing what my iso is not what my camera has randomly selected for me

The camera doesn't "randomly" select anything for you. The ISO setting which the camera selects is based on the aperture and shutter speed which you dial in and is clearly displayed for you to accept or override.

I'm a big fan of auto ISO as if used with your brain engaged it's very useful and saves time as you don't have to start pressing buttons / turning dials to change and set the ISO yourself. I leave my cameras on auto ISO and over ride if required but in many instances manual intervention isn't required and my normal procedure is to use Aperture priority until the light drops and causes the shutter speed to drop and then I switch to Manual mode and dial in the aperture and shutter I want and let auto ISO take care of the rest... and even better if my camera allows auto ISO in all modes with the ability to dial in exposure compensation.

These features are your friends... or can at least be turned off.

 

[snerkler]

I spent years with no option of Auto mode, it made me appreciate all the help my camera can give me , so I can concentrate on creating an image, rather than operating the equipment.

Completely agree, as in my post above the camera only selects what I would anyway. Granted they might not all work this way, and you might not be able to specify min shutter speed before ISO is altered but I can and it seems daft having manual ISO when the camera does exactly what I want. It saves time, minimising the risk of missing a shot.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

I can concentrate on creating an image, rather than operating the equipment.

•
That's what it's all about… once you master AutoNothing!

 

[dinorock]

•
That's what it's all about… once you master AutoNothing!

i concur

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Auto ISO is approaching the stage wher cameras, "rather their sensors" become ISO free.
This is true on a number of high end cameras, over a large part of their sensitivity range.
This is the holy grail of photography where the aperture and shutter speed are independent of Their ISO.
The band width is so wide that exposure become immaterial.

However entry level sensors are sill wide of this mark.

 

[Phil V]

i concur

There's some fast action stuff on your Flickr page, your manual focus technique is clearly better than mine , I find Auto focus gets it right more often than I do. Sometimes I wish I'd started using it 15 years sooner.

 

[dinorock]

There's some fast action stuff on your Flickr page, your manual focus technique is clearly better than mine , I find Auto focus gets it right more often than I do. Sometimes I wish I'd started using it 15 years sooner.

cheers phil i now have a new camera and the autofocus is stunning if used correctly and it takes practice lol i have lots of "misses" from earlier cameras.i wear glasses and manual focus would be a no no for me. someone mention a bat lol

 

[Phil V]

cheers phil i now have a new camera and the autofocus is stunning if used correctly and it takes practice lol i have lots of "misses" from earlier cameras.i wear glasses and manual focus would be a no no for me. someone mention a bat lol

I don't understand - I thought you said you used Manual everything

It now seems you agree with me that automation in cameras is just a tool to be learned and used appropriately

I did 20 years with totally manual cameras, I am one of those old nerds who could wake up in a parallel universe with no automation and just carry on shooting*. But the tools are there to be taken advantage of, now I can set my camera to a minimum shutter speed and know that I can alter my aperture for the shot I want and it'll pick up the slack, that's no more reliant on the camera than letting it control the focus motor to track what I want it to. I know when to set it to completely Manual, I know when I should use exp comp, FEC, or exp lock. I'm in complete control, I just allow the camera to put my decisions into play.
*I could go out and shoot 3 rolls of film tomorrow on totally manual cameras, but I wouldn't choose to! todays technology gives me a much better user experience.

 

[dinorock]

grow up phil LOL we were talking about exposure

 

[HoppyUK]

Auto ISO is approaching the stage wher cameras, "rather their sensors" become ISO free.
This is true on a number of high end cameras, over a large part of their sensitivity range.
This is the holy grail of photography where the aperture and shutter speed are independent of Their ISO.
The band width is so wide that exposure become immaterial.

However entry level sensors are sill wide of this mark.

Off topic.

ISO-free doesn't mean that exposure is immaterial, and it doesn't mean noise-free. It means, in effect, that you should get the same result by increasing amplification/gain at the post-processing stage as you do by pre-setting the ISO at the time of taking. There are still major benefits to maximising exposure, and optimising photon capture.

Welcome to TP Heather, and apologies for the interruption

 

[Phil V]

grow up phil LOL we were talking about exposure

<rant>
No, we're not. We're talking about the benefit of automation. Exposure can only be controlled by understanding what your meter is measuring, it doesn't matter if you use PAS or M, it doesn't matter if you use spot, CW or Matrix or even a hand held meter, whether you use Auto ISO or set it yourself. The only thing that matters is understanding what it is you're seeing, and interpreting that with your brain. Believing that it's either Auto or your brain is total stupidity, it can be both or neither, I prefer to mix the two, using my brain to control the automation.

In case you hadn't noticed, I have no tolerance for the idiots who think that putting the camera in Manual and centring the needle are in some way 'in control', whereas people who use semi auto modes or even P aren't in control because the camera is making some settings. It's simply not true, it's overly simplistic and it fosters misinformation.

Just look at the OP's checklist, the decision making process is all over the place, gleaned no doubt from internet misinformation, fed by people trying to make it look complicated. </rant>

It really is quite simple, and camera manufacturers have put a lot of effort into asking us how we like to work, we should at least let them help us a bit before dismissing it.

 

[StewartR]

I have no tolerance for the idiots who think that putting the camera in Manual and centring the needle are in some way 'in control', whereas people who use semi auto modes or even P aren't in control because the camera is making some settings.

This is the crux of it, isn't it. If you know how the camera works, and if you trust it to make the same decisions you would, then it's quicker and easier to let the camera do it.

The funny thing about ISO is that, of the three parameters which control the exposure - aperture, shutter speed, ISO - it's the one which, most of the time, most of us have the least interest in. But of course in film days it was the one we had to choose first, and the development of digital cameras has effectively continued that by making it harder to change ISO than to change aperture or shutter speed. So Auto ISO is very logical - choose the aperture, choose the shutter speed, and the ISO is whatever it needs to be. It was an absolute revelation to me the first time I used it.

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't see the benefit of using Auto ISO hasn't really thought about it.

 

[HoppyUK]

That's very true. Auto-ISO is a great feature and camera manufacturers should give it equal status with shutter speed and aperture in control options.

I guess old habits die hard and when shooting film, ISO was very different. Not only was it fixed by the film you chose, but there wasn't much choice of film speed either. I only used ISO100, or ISO400 at a push - the quality loss with faster films was unacceptable. And TBF, the first DSLRs were pretty similar with big noise penalties at higher ISOs.

I think that's what's really changed with modern cameras. Manufacturers need to adapt camera controls and options, and we need to change our habits.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some better cameras produce very little quality variation between ISO 100 and !SO 800. A few can even exceed this range and still have minimal noise and little diminished sharpness.
For them Auto ISO is an obvious choice.
However for the users of cameras with small sensors this is not the case yet. And most do not give anything like acceptable quality beyond ISO 400 where noise will already be apparent. For them Auto ISO is more problematic, and is not often the best choice. But can still produce "better" results than an inexperienced photographer might obtain otherwise.
Auto ISO is always a compromise. Our Judgement comes into play when deciding on what quality tolerance that is acceptable for the work in hand.
Better cameras make the choice easier, by letting you set limits over the range that the ISO can vary.
Auto settings never absolve you from using your judgement, they just make life easier.

 

[FireflyHeather]

Well that was an eye-opener - what I really want to know is, how do you take a landscape shot while correctly exposing for the highlights, midtones, shadows and the sky? I expect to take separate shots and photo merge them in photoshop. I've gathered from you guys that I should use manual ISO as well as manually set the aperture and shutter speed...

 

[Ploddles]

Well that was an eye-opener - what I really want to know is, how do you take a landscape shot while correctly exposing for the highlights, midtones, shadows and the sky? I expect to take separate shots and photo merge them in photoshop. I've gathered from you guys that I should use manual ISO as well as manually set the aperture and shutter speed...

You can also use ND grad filters (hard or soft) to help get the right exposure in the sky if you want to nail it in 1 shot rather than merging in photoshop.

 

[ibecks]

Landscape photographers did perfectly well without Photoshop for about 170 years and continue to do so now. They shoot in 'good light' ie. light which doesn't create huge extremes between highlights and shadows, often in the hour or so around sunrise/sunset or on overcast days. Or they used grad filters as Ploddles said. This, in most cases, negates the need for HDR/merging. Even if there are extremes of light, shooting RAW and using Lightroom-or-whatever can pull back a lot of information, particularly in the shadows. There are times when HDR is a useful tool but I think it's important to recognise when it is and isn't necessary.

As for manual settings... it's good to have confidence in your ability to shoot manual because it means your brain understands the 'exposure triangle' and that level of understanding allows you to make your own decisions rather than always relying on the camera to get the exposure right and create the image you want. If you're just getting started, do some experiments using different apertures, shutter speeds and ISOs to see the effect it has on your images. It's fine to shoot in aperture or shutter priority but you should know what to look out and when you should start taking control back from your camera.

 

[Phil V]

Well that was an eye-opener - what I really want to know is, how do you take a landscape shot while correctly exposing for the highlights, midtones, shadows and the sky? I expect to take separate shots and photo merge them in photoshop. I've gathered from you guys that I should use manual ISO as well as manually set the aperture and shutter speed...

You only gathered that if you fell to agreement with one side of the argument.

I don't want to unduly influence, but there's some heavyweight 'opinions' on the other side of this debate.

In so far as what you want to achieve, you're right, sometimes the scene in front of you will have a dynamic range beyond what your camera can capture. On those occasions you will need to either merge multiple exposures, or use an ND Grad filter.

It really doesn't matter what modes you use on your camera though. The crucially important thing is understanding how your meter reads a scene.

We all work differently, but IMHO spot metering is the worst of all the metering modes for people new to photography. You either have to know that what you're pointing your spot at is 18% reflective or be able to judge how far from 18% it falls. If you can't do that, all spot metering is doing is giving you a figure you can't make use of.

 

[Alastair]

Well that was an eye-opener - what I really want to know is, how do you take a landscape shot while correctly exposing for the highlights, midtones, shadows and the sky? I expect to take separate shots and photo merge them in photoshop. I've gathered from you guys that I should use manual ISO as well as manually set the aperture and shutter speed...

^ none of that was actually in the question

One step you did miss out, given it's now clear it's landscape photography being discussed is thinking about the image and how you want it to appear. Anticipating the light, the weather and the way that a given scene can change completely from one viewing to the next. Judging whether the dynamic range is within the capabilities of the equipment or whether additional measures will need to be taken - whether that's filters or jiggery-pokery in post-processing.

There's also the trap of over-thinking things, a lot of success with photography comes with experience. There's a lot to be said for getting out there and just trying stuff, balanced with the thought exercises of viewing lots of landscape images and thinking about what makes them work. Then once you can see the gap between what you want to achieve and what you're currently achieving researching the techniques required to close that gap.

The simplicities of landscape photography are that absolutely any camera is suitable for the task and there is such a broad sweep of landscape photography styles.

 

[snerkler]

Well that was an eye-opener - what I really want to know is, how do you take a landscape shot while correctly exposing for the highlights, midtones, shadows and the sky? I expect to take separate shots and photo merge them in photoshop. I've gathered from you guys that I should use manual ISO as well as manually set the aperture and shutter speed...

There are so many techniques for landscape so difficult to say which would be right for you. This is how I do it though most of the time.

1. Use a ND grad filter to balance the sky and ground, and use matrix/wide metering.
2. Set ISO to 100 and aperture to f8 or f11. The light meter will then dictate the required shutter speed. Ideally I use a tripod so slow shutter speeds are not an issue.
3. Focus at the hyperfocal distance to ensure max front to back focus.
4. Press the shutter using a remote shutter release.

This usually gets me a balanced exposure straight out of camera and so bracketing is not needed. In some situations such as sunsets then even my 3 stop grad filters aren't strong enough to balance the sky/sun and ground and so I will do the above and bracket with 3 shots at 0ev and +/-2ev.

Regarding the focus point, a different way to do it is set aperture to f22 and focus on the main subject, or 1/3 of the way into the frame to ensure max front/back focus. For me the issue with this is diffraction of the lens with using such small apertures. I do sometimes use f16 and f22 to get the 'sunburst' rays from the sun, or streetlights etc.

 

[StewartR]

Focus at the hyperfocal distance to ensure max front to back focus.... or 1/3 of the way into the frame to ensure max front/back focus....

Ooh, another lovely can of rooms to open up! Must... resist...

EDIT: Aaaarrrgh. Autocorrect error. Ąnd I'm usually so careful trying to prevent them, too.

... can of *WORMS* ...

 

[snerkler]

Ooh, another lovely can of rooms to open up! Must... resist...

Certainly is, and the latter wasn't very well put by me either

 

[Phil V]

I'm left wondering where I can get a can of rooms... Sorry @StewartR I'm guessing Ipad it does my head in daily

 

[sk66]

The funny thing about ISO is that, of the three parameters which control the exposure - aperture, shutter speed, ISO - it's the one which, most of the time, most of us have the least interest in.

If ISO isn't the aspect you care the least about, it should be. Aperture determines the sharpness and DOF, SS controls motion... both of which determine what an image *IS.* If you have more than you need of either, then you can worry about keeping ISO low/minimum.

If it's not a studio shot with lighting, there's a 99% chance I'll take the shot in aperture priority with auto ISO. For Nikons, when set up like that the camera will use the aperture you selected (obviously) and it will also use the minimum ISO setting. As light get's less SS will decrease towards the minimum setting. When SS reaches minimum, then ISO will increase towards the maximum setting. And when ISO finally reaches the maximum setting, SS will start to decrease below the minimum setting. These are pretty much exactly the same choices I would make if in full manual. If at any point you don't like what it's doing, you can change the aperture setting to override that action (i.e. SS getting to slow).

The main exception to this is when I'm forcing a slow SS in order to capture motion blur... in which case I'll typically switch to manual mode with auto ISO.

 

[StewartR]

The funny thing about ISO is that, of the three parameters which control the exposure - aperture, shutter speed, ISO - it's the one which, most of the time, most of us have the least interest in.

If ISO isn't the aspect you care the least about, it should be.

Ha ha. I very deliberately said "most of the time", just in case someone who's cleverer or more experienced than me came up with a scenario where ISO isn't the least important.

Anyone up for the challenge? Then I can bask in the smugness of my cautious approach.

 

[HoppyUK]

ISO least important or most important - you can argue both ways. It's most important because it allows you to use both the shutter speed and aperture you want