Developing colour film

[karmagarda]

Ok, not sure if this is possible, but let's put it out there. For those of you who weren't aware of my previous post, I've started developing B&W film. Developed my first roll today, thoroughly enjoyed it. What I love most is I can do this without a darkroom.

Now, my next quest (probably in the new year) will be to develop colour film without a darkroom... Firstly, is this possible? And if not can you explain why? Doesn't have to be a standard method of processing, I'll have a bash at anything really, cross processing, even something that produces funky results . (Which reminds me... I've lost my point and shoot which had a cooked film in it... hrmph...).

Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Mr :nuts:

 

[ekimeno]

Yes, it's possible. Developing E6 (slide - positive image) and C-41 (print negative image) colour is almost the same as B&W, except there's different chemicals and temperatures involved but you use the same basic materials as you would for B&W (dark bag, dev tank, spirals, thermometer, drying clips). I prefer slide as you get a nice viewable image coming out of the dev tank and generally the film quality or resolution of slide is better than print imglo

I haven't tried cross-processing yet, though would probably try it on some cheap expired film for experimentation.

Go get some Fuji Velvia 100 slide film and a Tetenal E6 developing kit and have some fun. Once developed you can scan the slides using a cheapish flatbed film scanner and print them digitally if you want. I'd recommend getting your best slides scanned by someone who does drum scanning.

 

[karmagarda]

I'll be shooting fujicolor pro 160s. Wonder is that going to make things more awkward for trying to develop at home?

 

[TheBigYin]

Isn't pro 160s supposed to be Fuji's negative version of Astia Slide stock? A bit more subdued colour handling than the usual In-Yer-Face vivid colours from Velvia - more suitable for portrait work etc.

As far as I know it's still a C41 process film though - shouldn't be much different to any other C41 (well - it wouldn't be for me - i'd just send it to Peak Imaging - the whole colour neg process is just a bit too involved for me to get into, and iirc the chem's are a bit more pungent and nasty than the BnW stuff)

 

[karmagarda]

Isn't pro 160s supposed to be Fuji's negative version of Astia Slide stock? A bit more subdued colour handling than the usual In-Yer-Face vivid colours from Velvia - more suitable for portrait work etc.

As far as I know it's still a C41 process film though - shouldn't be much different to any other C41 (well - it wouldn't be for me - i'd just send it to Peak Imaging - the whole colour neg process is just a bit too involved for me to get into, and iirc the chem's are a bit more pungent and nasty than the BnW stuff)

I think you're right about the C41 process. I'll give it a bash and see what happens anyway . I have a B&W loaded so it won't be until next year before I get a chance to try it out.

In regards to "pro 160s supposed to be Fuji's negative version of Astia Slide stock" :shrug:... . I've no idea what I'm at, I'm just throwing chemicals at things and enjoying seeing photos develop

 

[david1701]

you can dev it as slide still and get cross processed funkyness (I think)

 

[Steve Smith]

Easily possible but you just need more critical temperature control during the developing stage.


Steve.

 

[karmagarda]

you can dev it as slide still and get cross processed funkyness (I think)

I'll definitely try it out anyway and see what happens!

Easily possible but you just need more critical temperature control during the developing stage.


Steve.

From reading on this it seems to be the big difference between the 2. The fact that you develop B&W at 20 degrees means you're close enough to room temperature so it doesn't change an awful amount during the whole process. I'm going to have to have a think about the colour processing and how I'm going to control this. Colour seems to be developed at roughly 40 degrees so that's quite a bit higher (some people would say twice as high :nuts. And you can't vary over 1 degree either side of that. So I'll definitely have to push that a few degrees higher at the start so that it's about right when I add the chems to the dev tank.

 

[RaglanSurf]

I'll definitely try it out anyway and see what happens!



From reading on this it seems to be the big difference between the 2. The fact that you develop B&W at 20 degrees means you're close enough to room temperature so it doesn't change an awful amount during the whole process. I'm going to have to have a think about the colour processing and how I'm going to control this. Colour seems to be developed at roughly 40 degrees so that's quite a bit higher (some people would say twice as high :nuts. And you can't vary over 1 degree either side of that. So I'll definitely have to push that a few degrees higher at the start so that it's about right when I add the chems to the dev tank.

I have the perfect solution to your temperature control problem here...

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=180743

I don't have the space any more for this set up and so I'm restricting myself to just developing b&w

 

[Scarecrow]

What Steve Smith said. Developing temperatures will be higher than for B&W and your temperature control will be more critical. Most developing kits for colour will have a 'preferred' developing temperature, but will have a table showing how much to extend/shorten each stage should your temperature stray a little. I seem to remember that you had a latitude of a few degrees either way.

I found that a nice big water bath a few degrees above the required temperature for everything to sit in helped to stabilise the process. Also with an old Patterson tank I used to use, it was possible to leave the thermometer inserted all the time for a continuous reading to be taken.

 

[ekimeno]

While I'm sure the Jobo processor above works great, you can also process colour without a dedicated temperature control. I use a huge aluminium soup pot, fill halfway with hot water from the tap and drop your already filled chemical containers and dev tank into the pot with a thermometer inside the first developer attached to a ribbon or string.

Once the first dev is at the right temperature, start processing. Just make sure to leave the dev tank in the heated soup pot in between agitations - this will keep the temperature in the tank constant. The first developer stage is the most crucial for keeping the temperature regular - make sure this is between 37 and 39 degrees. The second stage, bleach fix and intermediate washing stages are less temperature critical - anything between 35 and 40 degrees is fine.

I've developed C-41 like this too and haven't had any problems.

 

[dazzajl]

Keeping everything at the correct temp is a pain with colour process unless you have a heated water bath to use. It is doable though and there is no reason not have a try at it.

As has been mentioned though, the chemicals are pretty nasty compared to the stuff you've used for B&W.

The real question here is much more "is it worth it?" For me the answer is a big no!

Unlike B&W, with colour it's either right or it's wrong. There is none of variation in tones and contrasts that you have by using different devs with different films in B&W.

 

[Ambermile]

The above it what is making me shy away from colour developing (even though I have all the necessary kit here) at home - too much chance of a colour imbalance and *nothing* you can do about it bar going back and retaking the pics. For this reason alone, when the current films are done in the FX-D's they're going to Jessops... if they're poo then subsequent ones will be bw (but the Yashicas will be sold to make way for the F90X with MB-10 that is on the way - don't tell the wife )

Arthur

 

[karmagarda]

I have the perfect solution to your temperature control problem here...

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=180743

I don't have the space any more for this set up and so I'm restricting myself to just developing b&w

I might pop over for a chat in classifieds so to get a breakdown of what it contains. Not sure yet if I'm interested, because I may not have the room for it myself! But will chat to you shortly about that.

What Steve Smith said. Developing temperatures will be higher than for B&W and your temperature control will be more critical. Most developing kits for colour will have a 'preferred' developing temperature, but will have a table showing how much to extend/shorten each stage should your temperature stray a little. I seem to remember that you had a latitude of a few degrees either way.

I found that a nice big water bath a few degrees above the required temperature for everything to sit in helped to stabilise the process. Also with an old Patterson tank I used to use, it was possible to leave the thermometer inserted all the time for a continuous reading to be taken.

Cool. I tried something similar to control the temp during the B&W processing but quickly realised the sink was way too small! Thankfully B&W seems to be a little more forgiving. I'm sure I can come up with some DIY contraption to allow for this and have a nice little holder for my termometer. Or I might end up buying some more equipment. We'll see what happens!

While I'm sure the Jobo processor above works great, you can also process colour without a dedicated temperature control. I use a huge aluminium soup pot, fill halfway with hot water from the tap and drop your already filled chemical containers and dev tank into the pot with a thermometer inside the first developer attached to a ribbon or string.

Once the first dev is at the right temperature, start processing. Just make sure to leave the dev tank in the heated soup pot in between agitations - this will keep the temperature in the tank constant. The first developer stage is the most crucial for keeping the temperature regular - make sure this is between 37 and 39 degrees. The second stage, bleach fix and intermediate washing stages are less temperature critical - anything between 35 and 40 degrees is fine.

I've developed C-41 like this too and haven't had any problems.

Now this is fairly close to what was in my head except for the soup tank. What I have in my head is to allow for any temp drops by slowly adding a bit more hot water (really manual I know!). Failing that I'll probably use the cooker on a fairly low heat, or some crazy like that . I'll definitely experiment before going for the real thing anyway.

Keeping everything at the correct temp is a pain with colour process unless you have a heated water bath to use. It is doable though and there is no reason not have a try at it.

As has been mentioned though, the chemicals are pretty nasty compared to the stuff you've used for B&W.

The real question here is much more "is it worth it?" For me the answer is a big no!

Unlike B&W, with colour it's either right or it's wrong. There is none of variation in tones and contrasts that you have by using different devs with different films in B&W.

The above it what is making me shy away from colour developing (even though I have all the necessary kit here) at home - too much chance of a colour imbalance and *nothing* you can do about it bar going back and retaking the pics. For this reason alone, when the current films are done in the FX-D's they're going to Jessops... if they're poo then subsequent ones will be bw (but the Yashicas will be sold to make way for the F90X with MB-10 that is on the way - don't tell the wife )

Arthur

Ah, but that's the fun of it for me! I'll definitely invest in a pair of rubber gloves and I hope to be developing right beside a window so that can be my ventilation . I'm sure herself will start calling me the nutty professor by the end of all this :bonk:

 

[ekimeno]

Sorry, but to my mind colour processing is worth it. It really is not as difficult as everyone makes it out to be. Sure I had a couple of iffy looking colours when I first started E6 processing, but you learn from your mistakes...

One argument I can agree on against shooting colour is the cost. £60 for a 5-litre E6 kit (20 rolls of 120) is very pricey, and about the same price if you take it to a lab. Taking control of your own developing, however, means more personal satisfaction and no waiting for the lab to do your developing for you - you can shoot in the morning, process and scan in the afternoon and have images up on TP by early evening

 

[ekimeno]

Now this is fairly close to what was in my head except for the soup tank. What I have in my head is to allow for any temp drops by slowly adding a bit more hot water (really manual I know!). Failing that I'll probably use the cooker on a fairly low heat, or some crazy like that . I'll definitely experiment before going for the real thing anyway.

I don't regulate the temperature in this way - the aluminium pot does a pretty good job of keeping the heat in the water. This is NOT an exact science - I know someone who has been shooting slide (studio/nudes) since the 80s and he also has a manual/thumb suck rule when it comes to temperature. As long as the temperature is in the ball park of your desired optimum of 39deg C (2 degrees on either side) you should be fine. Concentrate on keeping the first developer cycle at the closest to 39 as you can - the other stages are less temperature critical.

 

[dazzajl]

Sorry, but to my mind colour processing is worth it. It really is not as difficult as everyone makes it out to be. Sure I had a couple of iffy looking colours when I first started E6 processing, but you learn from your mistakes...

I'd definitely agree that E6 is cool to do at home but C41 is just totally dull to me.

There's naff all difference in the actual process, in terms of fun or involvement but the buzz of taking the slides out of the tank and seeing what you've got is great.

 

[RaglanSurf]

I might pop over for a chat in classifieds so to get a breakdown of what it contains. Not sure yet if I'm interested, because I may not have the room for it myself! But will chat to you shortly about that.

Hi, I've just posted a reply in the classifieds. Measurements and location.