David Hobby UK Tour -tickets on sale now at TFC

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Spring allergy GOOM (get out of Maryland) UK tour close to being finalized. London 5/22, B'ham 5/24, Leeds 5/26, Edinburgh 5/28. Deets soon.
TFC (The Flash Centre) seem to be organising it and are looking for
recommendations for conference rooms in brum, leeds and edinburgh. 30-50 people. Any ideas?
TFC's Alex Ray (AlexRay on Twitter) is the man to fire your venue suggestions to....
 
Hi great news iwill be there!!

For venue you could try leeds united football conferance centre i got married there:cuckoo: and it great!
 
Leeds! Woohoo!!! I'll be there! You can come and do it in my loft :D
 
Tickets on sale now

Venues:

London - The Brunswick Gallery - 22nd May

Birmingham - The Custard Factory Theatre - 24th May

Leeds - Radisson Blu - 26th May

Edinburgh - Radisson Blu - 28th May
 
I've got my tickets for the London date, can't wait! Don't really have the money at the moment but can't pass up the opportunity.
 
Booked for Edinburgh and I'm cacking myself. Never done any workshops but I cannot allow this opportunity to pass me by, I really want to improve and be more serious with my photography....... oh and try and heckle him ala Joe NcNally lol
 
What sort of start and finish time will it be please?
 
Booked for Edinburgh and I'm cacking myself. Never done any workshops but I cannot allow this opportunity to pass me by, I really want to improve and be more serious with my photography....... oh and try and heckle him ala Joe NcNally lol

I wouldn't worry about it, unless only two of us turn up :lol:

What sort of start and finish time will it be please?

AFAIK the itinerary hasn't been announced yet, but Mr H says it will be run along the lines of the GPP (Gulf Photo Plus) seminar.
 
Why?

It's not a hands on session, so you're not going to be doing anything worth worrying about.

Unless taking copious notes is intimidating ;)

True, Im looking forward to this more and more.

Be good to meet ya Graham :)
 
I was gonna go, but 117 quid plus extras is money I can use for flash gear. Belt tightening with little 'un on the way.
 
Very tempting, but I too can't help thinking that it would be money I could put towards new kit.
 
120 quid is cheap by most standards of all day workshops; for a name like Mr Hobby, it is a steal.

Have you seen the price of some other lighting courses by people without the pedigree of the Strobist?

I really should go to offer my gratitude, but just can't make it.
 
Kris, maybe it is a steal if you have £120 or are willing to part with it. In the middle of a recession it's a lot to ask. Yes, I know costs have to be covered but he could probably fill the NIA every night for a fortnight if asked because he's so 'revered' and do it for £30 a head. ....


...or maybe I'm just being a tight northerner :)
 
Sell it out for 120 and do one nights work, or sell it out for 30 and do 4 nights work.

Hummm.
 
Kris, maybe it is a steal if you have £120 or are willing to part with it. In the middle of a recession it's a lot to ask. Yes, I know costs have to be covered but he could probably fill the NIA every night for a fortnight if asked because he's so revered and do it for £30 a head. ....


...or maybe I'm just being a tight northerner :)


If it's "cheap" you're looking for then you can see Crash Taylor at Calumet Manchester for £20 less...........
 
Anyone from here heading up to the Birmingham event?
Yep, booked up for it. Although I'd prefer London but didn't find out about these until last night.

120 quid - he may be good but that's taking the mickey
Seriously? That's half the price of a 580EXII... I think it's unbelievable value. I know if you haven't got it spare it feels like a lot, but £50 quid is if you ain't got it. He could charge pretty much what he likes and still sell out the venue, I was shocked at how cheap it was compared to other courses I've been looking at to be honest.
 
I was shocked at how cheap it was compared to other courses I've been looking at to be honest.


But it isn't a course, which has to be limited to the number of people who can take part and gain benefits. It's a presentation by someone who runs a successful website. I'm told that he's a good presenter, he also has a kind of idol status so can probably get as many bums on seats as the venue can hold - that can produce big money at £100 + VAT.
Surely the true value of any product is the amount that a willing buyer is prepared to pay a willing seller to have it, so I suppose that none of us can really judge what something like this is really worth in financial terms, we can only judge what it is worth to us.
 
I'm told that he's a good presenter, he also has a kind of idol status so can probably get as many bums on seats as the venue can hold - that can produce big money at £100 + VAT.

Hmmm, now that's a surprise.

Perhaps one should accept that this 'idol' status that you have insinuated is rather a regard for being a bloody good teacher and innovator of existing practise.

It's a seminar Garry, not a course or a presentation. A seminar.
 
It's a seminar Garry, not a course or a presentation. A seminar.

Well if it's a seminar and not a course people can't really draw comparisons of costs against different things then can they. Adam Duckworth runs hands on courses through TFC for the same money so I'd rather pay that sort of money for some hands on training rather than getting talked at for a couple of hours.
 
Well if it's a seminar and not a course people can't really draw comparisons of costs against different things then can they. Adam Duckworth runs hands on courses through TFC for the same money so I'd rather pay that sort of money for some hands on training rather than getting talked at for a couple of hours.
I agree, personally I'd rather spend my money on a good hands on course than on a seminar, a presentation, or whatever anyone wants to call it.

But different people have different views, so nobody can really say whether something is overpriced, underpriced or whatever. At the end of the day, we vote with our back pocket.
 
Well, this forms part of my edumacation strategy. It's not the be all and end all, it's a piece of my jigsaw.
As for what the day actually is, this is from the site:
Join David Hobby for a fast-paced, one-day course on learning to use small flashes in a more sophisticated way. You'll follow real-world assignments as they progress from initial, available-light snapshots to dramatically lit photos. Focus will be on overcoming visual hurdles as you learn how to quickly hone in on your desired look.

In the afternoon, we'll shift from discussion into live demo mode as we create portraits right in the classroom, using whatever our environment has to offer. This is a demonstration class, and you do not need to bring gear unless you want to take visual notes of the day's shoots.

Q&A will flow throughout the day, with nothing being off limits.


So there you go, it's a a semineducatoclass...
 
Well if it's a seminar and not a course people can't really draw comparisons of costs against different things then can they. Adam Duckworth runs hands on courses through TFC for the same money so I'd rather pay that sort of money for some hands on training rather than getting talked at for a couple of hours.

That's up to you mate, one can learn through hands on and also being 'talked at'. One has a choice, attend if your interested and can get a place or not.

Like thousands of others, I've learned a **** load from Hobby and I've never had my hands on him :p I swear by his offerings, recommending them to anyone interested in lighting with speedlights and the off camera practise.
Hands on is a valuable and highly productive way of learning, but debatably, only a necessity when grasping the basics and becoming familiar with something new.

All the absolute basics of what Hobby teaches/practises, are available for free on his site.

You wanna see the man in action doing his thing? then pay his fee and listen.

I agree, personally I'd rather spend my money on a good hands on course than on a seminar, a presentation, or whatever anyone wants to call it.

I think you know exactly what the differences (and the benefits) between presentations, seminars and courses are. You sell written tutorials as well as provide practical and interactive courses. :)

Garry, I've been a member here for a couple of years and I see this every time the subject pops up.
It's evident, that you don't like Hobby or his web site and your presence in this thread and any other previously related threads, have always been to suggest that his methods are swaying to the unconventional side, are often fundamentally incorrect and you'll waste money and form bad habits that produce bad photography by paying him or others like him any attention.

Or put simply, 'Don't buy that, buy my stuff because it's better'.

I think it's a real shame that you can't reside on middle ground, you've written some fantastic articles, produce informative introductions to studio flash and give great advice on buying kits etc but outside these realms and into the world of speedlights, you are well out of your water, failing to comprehend or appreciate any of it's fruits.

Do you honestly believe that anyone can receive such a global regard without solid substance?

But different people have different views, so nobody can really say whether something is overpriced, underpriced or whatever. At the end of the day, we vote with our back pocket.

'Short term gains and long term losses', 'Cheapest is not always best' etc.

Funds and finance certainly play a role but I'd like to think that votes/decisions are made after a balanced assessment of the information.
 
For that sort of money, would you not be better getting his DVD set? That way you'd be able to refer back to it when ever you wanted and it covers a LOT of different situations.

Personally, I don't think you'll learn any more by going to the live "thing".

Plus, if you did outgrow the DVDs you'd be able to sell them on and recoup some of the outlay, in these tough times.
 
Personally, I don't think you'll learn any more by going to the live "thing".

Plus, if you did outgrow the DVDs you'd be able to sell them on and recoup some of the outlay, in these tough times.

DVD's are good but I doubt he'll only be going through the stuff on the DVD's, I think it's safe to expect some new material.

We are all still learning and therefore always have new stuff to show ;)
 
I've watched some of his DVD material and am currently working my way through the material on his website (which is all free at point of use) so I figure that hell, I've had way more than £117.50 incl vat worth of info from him already.

By the way, I wonder how much people would pay for all the info in strobist 101/102 and all the info that he's put out there over the last few years if it wasn't free? Perhaps some people would only value it more if we had to pay for it?
 
By the way, I wonder how much people would pay for all the info in strobist 101/102 and all the info that he's put out there over the last few years if it wasn't free? Perhaps some people would only value it more if we had to pay for it?

Well, if you consider the fact that Hobby did not invent nor claims to have invented the use of off camera flash, and also consider there are many books out there that also teach similar practises, you'd be buying far more than 120 nickers worth of books to even get close to all the information that is available in the 101/102 pages.

Not forgetting the contemporary and more updated information available on gear and suppliers and the global network of external resources.

I stumbled across Strobist in March 2008, I was skint, eager to learn and to be quite frank at a very desperate time in my life.

What I learned on those pages changed my career, my life and I'll be grateful to Hobby until I'm pushing the daisies.
 
I stumbled across Strobist in March 2008, I was skint, eager to learn and to be quite frank at a very desperate time in my life.

What I learned on those pages changed my career, my life and I'll be grateful to Hobby until I'm pushing the daisies.

Christ, you learnt all that stuff you do in a couple of years? Fair play to you Tomas, bet it's been a fun journey!
 
For that sort of money, would you not be better getting his DVD set? That way you'd be able to refer back to it when ever you wanted and it covers a LOT of different situations.

Personally, I don't think you'll learn any more by going to the live "thing".

Plus, if you did outgrow the DVDs you'd be able to sell them on and recoup some of the outlay, in these tough times.

By the same token, why bother going to a concert or a football match, or a motor race, or going on a safari, you can "experience" all of these things on the tv....
 
Christ, you learnt all that stuff you do in a couple of years? Fair play to you Tomas, bet it's been a fun journey!

Cheers Pip, I'm still learning mate, as I've mentioned here before, I'm far from a pro. I'm a full timer.

It has been fun but very hard, migrating to Finland and integrating is not easy. The skills I had back home (Guitarist, senior sales in musical instrument and hi tech audio gear), were pretty much useless here without knowing the notoriously hard language.

Luckily, Finns don't care so much if you can offer the more artistic or creative trade but something like retail is a complete no no without the lingo.

Photography is all I have here and it's been the only earner that has allowed me to survive, stay afloat and pay them bills. I've invested every scrap I've earned and every moment of spare time.

DH and his blog was the starting block, hence my support to provide a balanced view of the resource.

It's not the definitive guide and nor does it pretend to be, it's a one of a kind, fairly comprehensive resource that deserves respect and gratitude.
 
I think you know exactly what the differences (and the benefits) between presentations, seminars and courses are. You sell written tutorials as well as provide practical and interactive courses. :)

Garry, I've been a member here for a couple of years and I see this every time the subject pops up.
It's evident, that you don't like Hobby or his web site and your presence in this thread and any other previously related threads, have always been to suggest that his methods are swaying to the unconventional side, are often fundamentally incorrect and you'll waste money and form bad habits that produce bad photography by paying him or others like him any attention.

Or put simply, 'Don't buy that, buy my stuff because it's better'.

I think it's a real shame that you can't reside on middle ground, you've written some fantastic articles, produce informative introductions to studio flash and give great advice on buying kits etc but outside these realms and into the world of speedlights, you are well out of your water, failing to comprehend or appreciate any of it's fruits.

Do you honestly believe that anyone can receive such a global regard without solid substance?
QUOTE]

You've got it very wrong.
I don't have anything against David Hobby, I've never met him but I'm sure that he's kind to children and dogs. You and I have never met either, but you seem happy to make judgements about me.

And I don't have anything against hotshoe flashguns as such, I've used them since they first came out (used the flashbulb variety before that) and I still use them today when I feel that they are the best tool for the job, or at least are good enough for the job - I just don't use them when, in my opinion, there are better tools available to me. Saying that I'm out of my depth with hotshoe flashes is ridiculous, I don't pretend to know anything at all about the Canon etc varieties but I do seem to be able to use my Nikon ones:)

I have just 2 reservations about the Strobist approach to lighting - but they are just reservations and I feely admit that there are plenty of good things about it too.
1. The cost. It's actually MUCH cheaper to buy studio flash than dedicated hotshoe flash and all the bits that are needed to go with them. I don't have a problem with the cost but I think that a lot of people kind of get sucked into spending a lot of money, in dribs and drabs, not realising when they start out how much it is going to cost them for a handful or more of SB-900s.
2. The limitations in terms of light shaping tools. I know that there is more choice available now, but it's still very difficult to do anything creative in terms of shaping and controlling the light - with studio flash the opposite is true. As a result, I beleive that a lot of people just use hotshoe flashes with nothing more than umbrellas or softboxes, believing that that is all there is to lighting. That's a shame, because it stops them learning what CAN be done.

I admit that I'm not too keen on the Strobist site as such (I suppose that sounds a bit like saying that I'm not too keen on David Hobby but it really isn't the same thing) because
a. It could be mistaken for a product placement site, selling PW, DVDs, what have you
b. Because it used to claim that hotshoe flashes can do everything that studio flashes can do, and that there is no need for anything except hotshoe flashes. That statement seems to have quietly disappeared, and it needed to disappear because saying that studio flashes are irrelevant is just as stupid as saying that hotshoe flashes are irrelevant.

As far as his seminars, or workshops or whatever are concerned, I hope that he makes lots of money and that the people who attend get a lot from them.
 
You and I have never met either, but you seem happy to make judgements about me.

Yes, my judgments are based over a 2 year time period and on the available information, opinion and comments that you post on not just this forum but others.

My opinion is that you present a very misinformed argument on this subject. Most, if not all of your points are either exaggerated, disproportionate and false.


This in particular gave me considerable concern, a concern that's not too easy to forget or disregard.

You've got it very wrong.

Saying that I'm out of my depth with hotshoe flashes is ridiculous, I don't pretend to know anything at all about the Canon etc varieties but I do seem to be able to use my Nikon ones:)

Sigh.

You very may well understand the technical mechanics of a speedlight Garry but what I'm addressing is that you fail to appreciate the merits in the method/approach to using them. You are out of touch and evidently so.

I have just 2 reservations about the Strobist approach to lighting - but they are just reservations and I feely admit that there are plenty of good things about it too.

1. The cost. It's actually MUCH cheaper to buy studio flash than dedicated hotshoe flash and all the bits that are needed to go with them. I don't have a problem with the cost but I think that a lot of people kind of get sucked into spending a lot of money, in dribs and drabs, not realising when they start out how much it is going to cost them for a handful or more of SB-900s.

Here's your problem, you vastly exaggerate and constantly present the disproportionate rather than present an informed and factual account.

Why must they always be the most expensive speedlights that you choose to use as an example? An SB 900 is one of the most advanced and expensive flashes on the market? Why pick that?
Do I need the very best studio flash available to start out with lighting too?

Fact is, you can pick up a more than capable, reliable, pc sync, photo cell enabled, hotshoe flash for much, much less than the price of a studio flash.

If you had real world knowledge with what exactly is available these days, you would recognise that your above points are flawed in every way.

2. The limitations in terms of light shaping tools. I know that there is more choice available now, but it's still very difficult to do anything creative in terms of shaping and controlling the light - with studio flash the opposite is true. As a result, I beleive that a lot of people just use hotshoe flashes with nothing more than umbrellas or softboxes, believing that that is all there is to lighting. That's a shame, because it stops them learning what CAN be done.

Umbrella's and softboxes are effective and cheap, this is why most folk use them not because their somehow deluded into thinking thats all that there is.
Yep, the modifiers are different, you can't go stuffing a 2 metre octa on a speedlight but we use speedlights for portability not power, for convenience not large diffusers, why I have to spell this out is beyond me :shrug:

What about the restrictions we face when choosing to light a scene? Budget, time, available space, convenience, unobtrusiveness, safety?
How does your train of thought cater for these eventualities? Buy a Safari pack? Rent some profoto? Give up and pack it in?

This is where Hobby's school of thought fills in the potholes that studio flash, ie flashes that require AC mains sources or expensive batteries leaves behind.

If we were to follow your train of thought only, we'd simply be buggered.

There are always compromises when either lighting a scene on commission/assignment and lighting a scene for pleasure. You have an idea how to tackle the circumstance but this may change for a variety of reasons.

As photographers, sometimes the use of higher power unit luxuries are simply unavailable, unaffordable or inconvenient for whatever reason and compromises must be drawn. Example here:

There are times where the speedlight is mightier than the studio flash and there are times that a little flash is simply not going to cut it.

Here's some key points that you fail to recognise in your arguments.

The cost of a starter, twin speedlight set can be lower or the roughly the same in comparison to a starter studio kit.

Speedlights are AA battery operated and go anywhere without AC power where as a studio head is limited to mains power supply or a very expensive higher capacity battery pack.

Speedlight set ups, though far lower in power output, are much more portable, lighter and compact, you can attach a speedlight in places where you can't stick a studio head.

You can gel a speedlight much more effectively than a studio head, allowing for much more creative opportunities in terms of white balance and colour correction/manipulation.

Despite the ineffectiveness of larger modifiers (mods over 80cm to a meter), there are an array of effective light shaping tools available from flags/cutters/gobo's, snoots, grids, beauty dishes, reflectors etc.
Accept the limitations and one can easily shape the light creatively and successfully.

You can carry a horde of speedlights in a single backpack, on a single person. This is simply not possible with AC heads.

There are pro's and con's to both and you simply won't acknowledge them.

I do notice that you've dropped the 'complicated and irregular triggering systems' point as it's evident that all triggering systems are identical between both systems - Cables, optical slaves and radio triggering.

I admit that I'm not too keen on the Strobist site as such (I suppose that sounds a bit like saying that I'm not too keen on David Hobby but it really isn't the same thing) because
a. It could be mistaken for a product placement site, selling PW, DVDs, what have you..

Really? You honestly raise this a point? It's free for crying out loud! The ads are where he makes his money, similar to the way you do advertising and promoting Lencarta here! :lol:

BTW, How many times have you been 'mistaken' for the master peddler of Lencarta here on TP exactly? IIRC, you resent that notion yet use it as an argument against here? :cuckoo:

b. Because it used to claim that hotshoe flashes can do everything that studio flashes can do, and that there is no need for anything except hotshoe flashes. That statement seems to have quietly disappeared, and it needed to disappear because saying that studio flashes are irrelevant is just as stupid as saying that hotshoe flashes are irrelevant.

And the cherry atop the pie. Again, I'm astonished that your still using that in an argument despite numerous attempts at pointing out that you've been misinformed.

Simply put, the site has done no such thing, does no such thing and will never, do such a thing.

Hot shoe flashes are not a replacement, Hobby suggests that they are an alternative and we as photographers choose which system to use when assessing the circumstances.

Now do yourself a favour, give yerself a slap, shake it off and stop this immature and utterly uneducated sniping at something you do not understand, appreciate or comprehend. :)
 
Tomas,

Let's just leave it there shall we? - Without you assuming that just because I don't want to explain it all to you yet again that you must be right:)
 
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