D810 verses D5 for bird photography

ndwgolf

ndwgolf

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Neil Williams
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Guys
Nikon is bringing out a new D5 in March. Currently I have a D4s and a D810 but I find myself using the D810 with 600mm f4 all the time as I want the higher pixels so that it gives you leeway for cropping (especially small birds)........what do you guys think of that statement??
On the occasions that I have used my D4s I nearly always nail the focus (I cant say that for the D810) but again I find that after I crop the pictures IQ is no good
What do you guys use??
Later

Neil
 
•
I will buy your D4S should you go for the D5!

ndwgolf said:
I find myself using the D810 with 600mm f4 all the time as I want the higher pixels so that it gives you leeway for cropping (especially small birds)
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+1
The same for me! The pixel count is irreplaceable, as you said
and you are right, to allow for severe cropping.
 
Both cameras have their merits. The D4s for the high iso, high frame rate, buffer, focus speed and acurate focus. For an action camera i dont see anything that can beat it at the moment. The D810 for high pixel count/cropping, lighter, not as good focus system or iso capabilities but great for static birds/animals and or those at a distance.

So birds in flight on a dull day the D4s wins hands down. For good days where you cant get close to the subject then the D810 wins hands down. If i was to pick just one then its the D4s abd thats why i bought it over the D810 in the end. Both have their uses and having both you have the best of systems.
 
Would the D500 not tick the boxes for birds, especially if you have to crop?
 
I personally would go for the D810 (I thought that the D810 had the same processor and autofocus of the D4S or is it the D4 that is the same?)

If you can live without the machine gun FPS I would sooner invest the ££££ in something else or get 2 D810 bodies :-)

I very rarely fill the buffer but that another issue if you are a spray and pray shooter I guess where the D4S excels?

U can usually sense when the buffer starts to fill so I just let off a bit till it recovers? I can honestly say I have never missed a shot as you just think more before firing massive bursts off? That another thing with the D4s how many times are you going to go home with lots and lots of virtually identical shots from using the fast FPS?

I think if you are in the position to buy either you should know what type of shooter you are and as mentioned before each has plus and minus points?
 
There is a limit to how much you can crop and still retain detail, the D5 will be brilliant as the D4S and D810 are brilliant but none of them will be able to work miracles, you do need to get close. :)
 
Personally I would wait and try the D5 myself rather than reading the bumpf, or reading reviews before making a decision.

You know what you want to use it for and your own standards.

It will only be two or three months now before you can get your hands on one to try.
 
Just a little bit off-topic but it's very similar so saves starting another thread.

I've been wondering for a while about upgrading to a D4 or an 810.

Which would you advise for wildlife, generally low-light?
 
wezza13 said:
Just a little bit off-topic but it's very similar so saves starting another thread.

I've been wondering for a while about upgrading to a D4 or an 810.

Which would you advise for wildlife, generally low-light?
Click to expand...
If money isn't an issue get a D5
 
wezza13 said:
Just a little bit off-topic but it's very similar so saves starting another thread.

I've been wondering for a while about upgrading to a D4 or an 810.

Which would you advise for wildlife, generally low-light?
Click to expand...

The D4 will certainly out perform the D810 for low light, but if you need to crop the D4 will be restrictive, that was my main reason for getting the D810 ... however you can't crop yourself out of every situation, even with the D810 there will be a point where the crop will become noisy and lack detail.
 
gramps said:
The D4 will certainly out perform the D810 for low light, but if you need to crop the D4 will be restrictive, that was my main reason for getting the D810 ... however you can't crop yourself out of every situation, even with the D810 there will be a point where the crop will become noisy and lack detail.
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Thank you.

How about if I threw a D750 in to the mix?

D4 would obviously mean saving a bit but I would part ex my D600 and D7000 towards it. D810 won't take as long to save for and D750 I could get more or less straight-away.

Hmm decisions, decisions!
 
Get a D810 for normal use (or a 2nd hand D800 / e) & a D500. You then have the best of both worlds.

All of your full frame lenses will work perfectly fine plus you get the crop factor for birding as well as the most advanced AF & very high FPS...

WIN, WIN...
 
Also all of your batteries are the same & SD cards will work in both.
 
Diving Pete said:
Get a D810 for normal use (or a 2nd hand D800 / e) & a D500. You then have the best of both worlds.

All of your full frame lenses will work perfectly fine plus you get the crop factor for birding as well as the most advanced AF & very high FPS...

WIN, WIN...
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Thanks for the reply but I did say money is an issue, so wouldn't be able to afford 2 high end cameras :)
 
gramps said:
but none of them will be able to work miracles, you do need to get close. :)
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As Roger says, you need to learn how to get close to the subject, rather than spending copious amounts of money on trying to bypass this vital step.

If you are considering blowing £5000 on a D5 and all you are going to do is crop the hell out of the frame, then that would be a waste of D5. What's the point of buying a camera that has 20 / 36 megapixels if all you are going to do is use less than 50% / 60% of them.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh ( it is not meant to ) but if I were you, I'd just stick with the D810 and master that before getting a D5, as using all the 36 megpixels will give you amazing looking files with great IQ.

Now bring on the Crop Boys to kick me in the goolies :exit:

Andy...(y)
 
At the moment, I don't think you will see any great difference between the D4s and D5... 4MP isn't that big of a difference.

I have to question what you are using the pixels of the D810 for. It's really only relevant for web display where pixel size equates to display size... but that is highly variable with the resolution settings for various viewers.

Cropping/crop factor is almost never a great answer... and having more pixels to allow more of it doesn't really help.
 
Since getting the D810 a couple of months ago I have not used the D4 for birding, the D810 is just as snappy to focus and to be honest produces a better detailed image, it also has the ability to give me 15mp or thereabouts cropped images, if needed.

The D810 is lighter, the D810 shutter is way quieter, on the other side the D4 will perform better in really gloomy conditions, and it's battery lasts longer.

I never shoot on machine gun mode, so frames per second does not matter to me.

You need to master the kit you already have Neil, constant swapping to the latest and greatest piece of hardware will not show massive improvements, getting a real understanding of what you already have and learning how to get the maximum from it will.
 
Selling your :

D7000 - £250 ish
D600 - £700 ish

That wil get you a D750 which is a great little camera....
Just not convinced for birding though...

The D4 is £2300 +
D4S is £2800+

D800 - £800+
D500 - £1700
 
Diving Pete said:
Selling your :

D7000 - £250 ish
D600 - £700 ish

That wil get you a D750 which is a great little camera....
Just not convinced for birding though...

The D4 is £2300 +
D4S is £2800+

D800 - £800+
D500 - £1700
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Thank you for the price breakdown.

My D600 has only recently had the shutter replaced, so it is, in effect, like new. Hopefully will be worth a bit more.

Just to throw another suggestion into the mix, any thoughts on a D3S these days, compared to the D800 and D750?

I wonder as it's affordable and the fact that I don't print large (and normally shoot in crap light) whether this might be a reasonable option.

Or, then again, would I be better off saving towards better glass.

I currently use the Tamron 150-600 and the Nikon 300mm F4 paired with the Nikon 1.4x TC.

Any advice is appreciated, thank you.
 
I'm not sure how you would feel with loosing the cropping abilities with a D3s over your D600. See Martyns comments above in post 19 regarding the D4.

I like my D750 but if I had the little extra I would have gone for the D810, it was just out of my budget at the time. The D810 from HDEW or Panamoz offer excellent value and would be my choice. I'm going to be out of action for a few months when my shoulder/elbow operation is done, and I have been thinking of chopping in my D750 and lenses and starting again with the D810. I got an itch which may need scratching.:D
 
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Swanseajack said:
I'm not sure how you would feel with loosing the cropping abilities with a D3s over your D600. See Martyns comments above in post 19 regarding the D4.

I like my D750 but if I had the little extra I would have gone for the D810, it was just out of my budget at the time. The D810 from HDEW or Panamoz offer excellent value and would be my choice. I'm going to be out of action for a few months when my shoulder/elbow operation is done, and I have been thinking of chopping in my D750 and lenses and starting again with the D810. I got an itch which may need scratching.:D
Click to expand...

It definitely sounds like an upgrade Simon, cheers.

My D600 is really slow to focus with my Tamron 150-600, although I've only just noticed it these last couple of weeks since buying a 70-200mm 2.8 Tamron - that thing is lightning quick autofocus!

So I suppose that the D800 would be an upgrade as it has the 51 point autofocus module as opposed to my D600's autofocus module which is the 39 point version.

That in itself may be worth the upgrade if the autofocus is a lot better.

I've just noticed that you said the D810, but from the looks of the differences between that and the D800 I think the D800 would suit me fine.

Anyone who doesn't recommend the D800 over the D600, please mention now lol :D
 
I've just noticed that the D800 has the Expeed 3 processor whereas the D810 has the Expeed 4 processor.

Is that really a big difference or something that I'll probably not even notice? Seeing as my D600 already has an Expeed 3 processor?
 
Expeed 4 is the same as in the D4S so you will see a difference ... I know I do.
D3S is a superb low-light camera, its only drawback (it is is a drawback) is that it's 12mp so limited in today's terms for cropping ... that having been said some fantastic wildlife and other photography has been taken with it. :)
 
A good lens can make a crappy camera sing.
A bad lens can make a good camera crap.
You 'don't' have a crappy camera - good glass can make all the difference.
 
wezza13 said:
I've just noticed that the D800 has the Expeed 3 processor whereas the D810 has the Expeed 4 processor.

Is that really a big difference or something that I'll probably not even notice
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I had the D800 and now have the D810, the difference in focus speed is noticeable, it locks on much quicker
 
I've had a conversation with a respected and successful wildlife photographer who said that since getting a D8x0, the D4 rarely left home and only on the days when he knew speed was absolutely vital. Otherwise it was the D8x0 and said he came home with few but higher quality photos.
 
wezza13 said:
It definitely sounds like an upgrade Simon, cheers.

My D600 is really slow to focus with my Tamron 150-600, although I've only just noticed it these last couple of weeks since buying a 70-200mm 2.8 Tamron - that thing is lightning quick autofocus!

So I suppose that the D800 would be an upgrade as it has the 51 point autofocus module as opposed to my D600's autofocus module which is the 39 point version.

That in itself may be worth the upgrade if the autofocus is a lot better.

I've just noticed that you said the D810, but from the looks of the differences between that and the D800 I think the D800 would suit me fine.

Anyone who doesn't recommend the D800 over the D600, please mention now lol :D
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Your D600 shares the similar tech as the D7000 with AF 39 focus points. When I had the D7000 I found it okay, but seen an improvement with the D7100 and definitely again with the D750 I have now. It maybe worth popping to your local camera shop and trying the Tamron lens on one of the bodies your interested in. The D810 interests me only for the cropping facility, and I have some GAS.:D

With the D810, IIRC you can shoot upto 7fps compared to the 4fps with the D800, when using the battery grip. Perhaps Roger @gramps can confirm.

Comparisons of different bodies you maybe interested in. > http://www.dpreview.com/products/co..._d750&products=nikon_d810&products=nikon_d800
 
5fps in FX hi-res but 7fps with grip and in DX mode (15mp) ... personally I've ever overrun but I don't machine-gun ... oh and I don't use a grip :)
 
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I use the D810 w/ grip, and sometimes in DX mode... for really demanding things 7fps is not enough. But neither is 15fps. Basically, unless you are shooting video at 60fps it's not going to make up for timing the shot.

The problem with cropping the D8xx to DX is that you loose a lot of everything... might as well be using a D7000 as far as IQ goes.

I also don't use my D4 as much... only when the light isn't good. But that doesn't mean I need to be using the D810. I usually wind up with a lot more pixels than I need (and larger files).
 
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Diving Pete said:
A good lens can make a crappy camera sing.
A bad lens can make a good camera crap.
You 'don't' have a crappy camera - good glass can make all the difference.
Click to expand...
:agree:

Totally agree. I upgraded to a D810 last year and just love it. I would like a D4 or D4s but that would have left me nothing for lenses. I sold my 28-300mm and 80-400mm to help fund the new (secondhand) lenses...I now have a 24-70mm, 70-200mm vr2 and a 300mm vr2 all f2.8, they make the D810 sing, IQ is amazing, AF is lightening fast and my hit rate has improved dramatically. Buy the best camera suited to your needs that you can, but not at the expense of good glass.
 
Swanseajack said:
Your D600 shares the similar tech as the D7000 with AF 39 focus points. When I had the D7000 I found it okay, but seen an improvement with the D7100 and definitely again with the D750 I have now. It maybe worth popping to your local camera shop and trying the Tamron lens on one of the bodies your interested in. The D810 interests me only for the cropping facility, and I have some GAS.:D

With the D810, IIRC you can shoot upto 7fps compared to the 4fps with the D800, when using the battery grip. Perhaps Roger @gramps can confirm.

Comparisons of different bodies you maybe interested in. > http://www.dpreview.com/products/co..._d750&products=nikon_d810&products=nikon_d800
Click to expand...

gramps said:
5fps in FX hi-res but 7fps with grip and in DX mode (15mp) ... personally I've ever overrun but I don't machine-gun ... oh and I don't use a grip :)
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sk66 said:
I use the D810 w/ grip, and sometimes in DX mode... for really demanding things 7fps is not enough. But neither is 15fps. Basically, unless you are shooting video at 60fps it's not going to make up for timing the shot.

The problem with cropping the D8xx to DX is that you loose a lot of everything... might as well be using a D7000 as far as IQ goes.

I also don't use my D4 as much... only when the light isn't good. But that doesn't mean I need to be using the D810. I usually wind up with a lot more pixels than I need (and larger files).
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Brom said:
:agree:

Totally agree. I upgraded to a D810 last year and just love it. I would like a D4 or D4s but that would have left me nothing for lenses. I sold my 28-300mm and 80-400mm to help fund the new (secondhand) lenses...I now have a 24-70mm, 70-200mm vr2 and a 300mm vr2 all f2.8, they make the D810 sing, IQ is amazing, AF is lightening fast and my hit rate has improved dramatically. Buy the best camera suited to your needs that you can, but not at the expense of good glass.
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All very good info, thank you all very much.

Last couple of days I've really set my sights on a D800/D810 and then towards the end of the year, maybe a 400mm F4 or 500mm F4 lens.

On paper, the D810 looks miles different to the D800.

In the real world, if anyone has tried both, are they really that different?
 
wezza13 said:
In the real world, if anyone has tried both, are they really that different?
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Yes they are, the difference in IQ between the D800 and D810 is noticeable ... although I haven't used the D800e I gather the IQ difference is less noticeable.
However the addition of the Expeed 4 AF in the D810, together with the option of Group Area-AF makes the D810 AF a definite winner. :)
 
Although the crop factor in the D810 in FX mode is outstanding would not the faster AF and shutter FPS in the D5 be more beneficial in balance ?
 
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