CRB Checks for Photography

Andrew Davies Photography

Andrew Davies Photography

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Hi

I am looking into the options of CRB now called DBS checks and wondering if it is a necessity / and or worthwhile to get when working with children toddlers and family photography ( not schools but invited personal photo shoots ). It seems you cant get one yourself being self employed though there are a couple of companies I have come across online say you can its done by somewhere in Scotland ( is this just a con ? ). Would appreciate any advice from anyone who works particularly in that area or with knowledge of such.

Thank you
Andrew
 
Andrew,

Its not a con. I'm a retired cop and now self employed. The nature of my work requires that I need a CRB certificate. You can get one yourself from the address you have in Scotland. It costs about £35 from memory. Sorry I don't have their WWW address but Google it and you'll find it.

Id suggest for 'safety' sake get one if your working with kids. It is another feather in your hat to be able to state you are CRB checked and certified
 
In Scotland anyone can apply for a police disclosure check. Basically you get the form from the police office. Fill it in. Take it back with a 10er and they will send you it out. There is also an enhanced disclosure but that's a slightly different process. I handed out a load of them when I was a cop.
 
BMD said:
Andrew,

Its not a con. I'm a retired cop and now self employed. The nature of my work requires that I need a CRB certificate. You can get one yourself from the address you have in Scotland. It costs about £35 from memory. Sorry I don't have their WWW address but Google it and you'll find it.

Id suggest for 'safety' sake get one if your working with kids. It is another feather in your hat to be able to state you are CRB checked and certified
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Thank you , having looked at the info online it seems the basic check does not have any information to do with whether people can work with children and holds little or no relevance to that topic , is the only check that is worth getting the enhanced one if so can this be done online myself ? Or would you say having a basic one puts people at ease ( even though it seems to be meaningless ) ?
 
Don't know whether it will make people happier having enhanced certification. Mine is enhanced but doesn't actually say 'this man can work with kids' if you get my meaning. All it shows for others is that you have been checked out, mainly criminal record wise and are not a known risk.
 
Nail = head

It might well be that it's only a token gesture that makes people feel at ease. I don't have one (although I would have been enhanced disclosure checked at one time) and I know of know law/regulation/by-law that requires photographers to have one.

It does strike me as odd that there isn't considering it's fundamentally working with children.
 
CBR checks do not state who or what you can work with, just a check against any Criminal Convictions

I have an Enhanced Disclosure in connection with my Fire Arms Certificates, I obtained this through New Scotland Yard ( Metropolitan Police) as part of the process and on this document there are no provisions/Statements as to its use

Les
 
OK thanks guys , its really as I expected a small outlay which may or may not people feel at ease ! I have to say i am really surprised in this day and age at how inept this system looks , Joe public seeing a CRB check on someone would i reckon expect that in the least they were not a sex offender or a problem working with kids ! it seems that this is not included in the checks till the very top level and even then some of it is excluded from the cert . No wonder so many people get employed and found out to be problems later and then councils hospitals schools etc have the problem of explaining why they employed them. Needs a bit of a shake up if you ask me.
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
OK thanks guys , its really as I expected a small outlay which may or may not people feel at ease ! I have to say i am really surprised in this day and age at how inept this system looks , Joe public seeing a CRB check on someone would i reckon expect that in the least they were not a sex offender or a problem working with kids ! it seems that this is not included in the checks till the very top level and even then some of it is excluded from the cert . No wonder so many people get employed and found out to be problems later and then councils hospitals schools etc have the problem of explaining why they employed them. Needs a bit of a shake up if you ask me.
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or just scrap the useless pile of dog stuff.... the whole system is so flawed its unbelieveable.. you can even get a CRB badge to say you ahve been checked...haha great!... complete and utter useless.. you get a crb even if you ahve 20 sex offending convictions.. you still get an enhanced crb sent to you.... thus everyone can say they ahve one.... for it to be any use then people need to read it and see the convictions....

unless its a really really big crb badge then.... :)
 
CRB's (or DBS as they are now) are just a certificate that comes back showing details of any criminal activity covered by the check.

An individual cannot request one, they have to be carried out by an umbrella company. Disclosure scotland is effectively an umbrella company. In my role as a scout leader, the scout association is the umbrella body. The CRB certificate will always be issued, it's what it says that matters. It could tell the world about multiple murder convictions and a history of car theft. It's still a completed disclosure check! It's up the the employer/customer to decide if they are happy with using the person based on the information provided on the certificate.
 
That

so simply stating that you have one is worthless - imo they are only really worthwhile if you are checking out employees
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
Hi

I am looking into the options of CRB now called DBS checks and wondering if it is a necessity / and or worthwhile to get when working with children toddlers and family photography ( not schools but invited personal photo shoots ).
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Andrew

You don't need one.

This is of course stated on the basis that your invited personal photo shoots are going to have a parent, guardian, or assigned responsible adult present.

The certificates are of use if you are photographing children unsupervised, or vulnerable adults. I hold one for a specific sports job I do where the nature of the event means that athletes (under 18) are often moving between pitches/courts or facilities on the large site unsupervised - and whilst I'm unlikely to be photographing them walking to the cafe my client (read: employer for this job) requested it.

You might *choose* to have one for all of the reasons stated above, but it isn't necessary for what you are looking to do. I have never had a parent ask me if I am CRB/DBS checked prior to booking or during a shoot.

FWIW I also hold one as I volunteer for my son's cub group sometimes and they cover themselves by requiring everyone to have a disclosure - again I'm rarely in charge of any children in the absence of one of the scout leaders. But it is *their* policy.
 
meonshore said:
FWIW I also hold one as I volunteer for my son's cub group sometimes and they cover themselves by requiring everyone to have a disclosure - again I'm rarely in charge of any children in the absence of one of the scout leaders. But it is *their* policy.
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As a matter of pedantry, all Occasional Helpers across the scout association have to be CRB checked, it's not a group-by-group decision.
I can see the benefit of one as a photographer, simply becuase it means you are covered if a parent asks if you have one. In the world we live in, parents are becoming increasingly aware (and in some cases paranoid) and anything that may reassure them is surely no bad thing. On the other hand, it does somewhat continue the myth that because someone has carried out a CRB check, they are intrinsically 'safe'
 
miker said:
CRB's (or DBS as they are now) are just a certificate that comes back showing details of any criminal activity covered by the check.

An individual cannot request one, they have to be carried out by an umbrella company. Disclosure scotland is effectively an umbrella company. In my role as a scout leader, the scout association is the umbrella body. The CRB certificate will always be issued, it's what it says that matters. It could tell the world about multiple murder convictions and a history of car theft. It's still a completed disclosure check! It's up the the employer/customer to decide if they are happy with using the person based on the information provided on the certificate.
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This is spot on.

The Disclosure and Barring Service (formed by the merger of the legacy Criminal Records Bureau and the Independent Safeguarding Authority in December 2012) currently offer Standard and Enhanced Disclosures. You can only apply for these products through a Registered Body or an Umberella Body.

Standard Disclosures involve a check of the Police National Computer (PNC), revealing cautions and convictions (although not disclosing any that are deemed suitable to be filtered out). Enhanced Disclosures also add a check of Local Police Force "soft" intelligence, which may be disclosed at the discretion of the Chief Constable. There is also an Enhanced Disclosure with a Barred List check, which also checks whether the applicant is already on a DBS Barred Lists (1 for kids, 1 for vulnerable adults). You can only seek an Enhanced Disclosure (with or without a Barred List check) if the position you are applying for meets certain criteria, it is not something that you can apply for because it would be nice to have.

Some interesting comments here about the system being flawed and needing a shake up. You may (or may not!) be interested to know that a previously-planned scheme (google "Vetting and Barring Scheme") had intended the system to be far more draconian, which may have been more palatable system to some. When that scheme was overhauled by the newly elected Tory government it was with the intention of placing more of the responsibility back on employers (not the state) to determine who can and cannot have which jobs. It is a decision for the employer to determine, armed with the clean or "dirty" certificate, whether to offer an applicant a job or not. It is a criminal offence to offer certain positions (termed to be within "Regulated Activity") to those who have been placed on a DBS Barred List.

Having said all of that, the widespread public misconception about what a "CRB Check" actually is and what it implies probably means that it would do you no harm to be able to tell people you have one!
 
Could reassure people who don't know what a CRB check is & who needs one; however people who do know what it is may find someone who doesn't need one & who is making a big deal about having one to be protesting too much, if you get what I mean.
 
ghoti said:
Could reassure people who don't know what a CRB check is & who needs one; however people who do know what it is may find someone who doesn't need one & who is making a big deal about having one to be protesting too much, if you get what I mean.
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I think so :) though it took me a few times to read and understand it !
 
miker said:
As a matter of pedantry, all Occasional Helpers across the scout association have to be CRB checked, it's not a group-by-group decision.
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As a matter of pedantry I hadn't suggested it was a group by group decision, just that it had been requested by the group he attends.

I can see the benefit of one as a photographer, simply becuase it means you are covered if a parent asks if you have one. In the world we live in, parents are becoming increasingly aware (and in some cases paranoid) and anything that may reassure them is surely no bad thing. On the other hand, it does somewhat continue the myth that because someone has carried out a CRB check, they are intrinsically 'safe'
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The issue is that by playing up the need to be CRB/DBS checked photographers themselves create a concern and atmosphere that is completely unnecessary. I'm more inclined to ask a parent why they think I need a CRB/DBS to photograph their child if they themselves will be present, rather than rush out an get one to placate ? Surely the parent wouldn't allow the capture of any photographs which they might be concerned about being viewed or distributed in some way, and you would certainly expect them to prevent any inappropriate physical or verbal behaviour.

Frankly if after having a conversation with someone about creating portraits of their child their concern is that I might in someway endanger that child then I'm probably not the photographer for them.
 
Hi , It was not the after conversation part i was thinking of - it was more whether someone would be more inclined to book a photographer advertising a CRB check than one who was not, most of these bookings would come by the website where i had not met people.

Opinion seems very divided on whether this would be meaningful !

thanks
Andrew
 
I have an old CRB, and just got asked for a DBS by a job in July ... I didn't even know they'd changed the name of the stupid thing.
I asked them to get back to me on how I obtain one ... I'll probably have to arrange it myself through some local charity organisation, this stuff is so silly and badly thought out.
I wish people would recognise what a CRB/DBS is : it's certainly not a certificate of "good bloke, good with kids" ... just a check on your criminal convictions at the time of the check and no later.
 
The fact that a "sole trader" can go to an umbrella organisation is just more proof of how daft the whole system is. But what is of more concern is how many people believe it is the one thing that proves if you are good person or a pedophile.
 
munch said:
The fact that a "sole trader" can go to an umbrella organisation is just more proof of how daft the whole system is. But what is of more concern is how many people believe it is the one thing that proves if you are good person or a pedophile.
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A lot of people think it's a test which you either pass or fail. It's as if the words 'CRB checked' are supposed to be reassuring.

It has as much substance as a doctor advertising himself with the words 'medical college attended' or a bus driver using 'driving test taken'.


Steve.
 
couldn't agree any more
 
miker said:
CRB's (or DBS as they are now) are just a certificate that comes back showing details of any criminal activity covered by the check.

An individual cannot request one, they have to be carried out by an umbrella company. Disclosure scotland is effectively an umbrella company. In my role as a scout leader, the scout association is the umbrella body. The CRB certificate will always be issued, it's what it says that matters. It could tell the world about multiple murder convictions and a history of car theft. It's still a completed disclosure check! It's up the the employer/customer to decide if they are happy with using the person based on the information provided on the certificate.
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Yup agree entirely. My local rugby club child protection officer insisted I got one, which I did though RFU covering me everywhere, not just their club. But as I pointed out, it was just so they could see my criminal record and make an informed decision whether to allow me to continue photographing (which I'd already done for 3 years). I already held two enhanced for primary schools and another for scouts. I have quite a collection which I keep copies on my iPad in pdf but have never been asked to produce.
 
from a personal view if i had young children ( i dont ) and i invited a photographer into my home i dont think i'd leave them alone together anyway ,so any checks would be pointless as far as i was concerned .
 
donut said:
from a personal view if i had young children ( i dont ) and i invited a photographer into my home i dont think i'd leave them alone together anyway ,so any checks would be pointless as far as i was concerned .
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But that would mean parents would have to do a thing called parenting, rather than palm all responsibility off to a third party. Can you imagine how terrible that would be for them?

/sarcastic cynical mode off.
 
exactly Mike ,imagine if the parents left a total stranger at home with their kids and then went out for the day only to come back to find something bad had happened ,,,,who would they be able to blame ....i dont think you were being cynical at all ,,,,parents need to ,,,,,well ,,parent
 
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