Cost of living possible cure

the black fox

the black fox

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I see that today we may get some help with the cost of living crisis , but it shows that boris and sunak have never lived in the real world , surely the easy way would be to subsidise diesel , every item we buy in the shops is delivered at some point by a diesel powered lorry , most home delivery’s are via a diesel powered van ( bar Amazon electrics vans ) most food produced is by diesel powered tractors . But in a stupid move red diesel for farm use is now gone ta ta ..
All the extra cost is being passed on to us end consumers . So surely the sensible action would to subsidise diesel and invest in a diesel refinery’s ,probably a short term fix as we swing towards renewables but action is needed NOW not in a mythical 2035 date
 
Makes sense though, as in the case of many manufacturing costs, the savings may not all be seen at the 'factory gate' as a significant saving to the customer. Why do I say that.....the imported raw materials including shipping costs of container vessels will not have subsidised fuels and AFAIK the cost of shipping has increased dramatically.

However, more medium to longer term support has to start somewhere!

The flipside of the 'windfall tax' even though its taxation of the "unexpected profits" so the energy company shares prices should not be affected.....................it will affect the share prices and many pension companies invest in the energy sector. So anyone who has a SIPP style pension i.e. not a company final salary one will likely see the value of their pot shrink in the short to medium term unless or until the fund managers reassess the portfolio mix to rebalance it!
 
Since diseasel is the worst for pollution fuel, subsidising it would be be a bad thing.

Most people have no idea how dependent we are on fossil fuels - the whole (cheap) food supply line is dependent on it.

What this government will not tell you (and probably any other government) is that the age of cheap is probably over*. We will, painfully, have to consume less. Much less.

*Unless we can convert to a Fusion economy quickly.
 
Pound Coin said:
Since diseasel is the worst for pollution fuel, subsidising it would be be a bad thing.

Most people have no idea how dependent we are on fossil fuels - the whole (cheap) food supply line is dependent on it.

What this government will not tell you (and probably any other government) is that the age of cheap is probably over*. We will, painfully, have to consume less. Much less.

*Unless we can convert to a Fusion economy quickly.
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I too wish that Fusion was 'here now' but it is sadly no where near a viable, practical option.............I think I read that the possible commercial reactor is still at least 15 years off and 'they' said that 15 years ago!!

Yes, diesel is a horrible fuel but in the short term there are very limited alternative(s). But the materialistic western culture is a non too virtuous circle of supply & demand with the demand growing not shrinking :( :headbang: I wonder if the supply chain issues the pandemic and now the War in Ukraine has triggered will mark a (slight) reset of the global market :thinking:
 
I don't know if we'll ever see cheap fuel. We've certainly heard things like "It'll be too cheap to meter" before and it's never been true.

I'd like to see a lot of essential things such as water, electricity and gas or whatever will replace these under public control in whole or in part as these things are just too essential to leave to the whims of the market or foreign governments. Nationalisation has been a failure in the past so it'd need to be done with the view that it's the tax payers money and the industries would need to be effectively and competitively and competently run but the key being that the consumer would face lower bills. People would also need to respect recourses and use these utilities sparingly as if they cost the earth, as they do.

I do worry about the move to renewables and electric transport as the problems with both seem to being if not entirely ignored then at least glossed over.
 
Pound Coin said:
Unless we can convert to a Fusion economy quickly.
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Box Brownie said:
I too wish that Fusion was 'here now' but it is sadly no where near a viable, practical option.............I think I read that the possible commercial reactor is still at least 15 years off and 'they' said that 15 years ago!!
Click to expand...

I posted this back in Feb:

Energy Costs - Ouch!​

I wouldn't bank on that for the next 40 years or more. Currently not one of the research facilities can generate a fusion reaction where there is a nett gain in energy.
ITER the test facility in France is currently behind schedule and even when it's commissioned there is uncertainty that it will work, by work I mean sustain a fusion reaction and produce a surplus of energy, there are some doubts around that it can. In the event that it is successful then the next phase will be to develop a commercial reactor and gain proof of concept for that design. After that come the regulatory assessment ... going by the current nuclear programme that takes around 10 years and then you've to build and commission it.
Ohh I haven't mentioned the fuel deuterium & tritium, one is easy to manufacture the other not so, the difficult one can be made as a product of the fusion reaction ... if it works
 
ecoleman said:
Where do you get your news? Red Diesel for farm use has not gone at all.

www.gov.uk

Using rebated fuels in vehicles and machines (Excise Notice 75)

Find out when you can use rebated diesel, biodiesel or kerosene in vehicles and other machinery.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
Yes but according to what I read they can’t use it on the roads .. it only takes some stupid customs plonker to stop a tractor going from farm to fields for a tank dip and it all goes tits up . But in all honesty your just nit picking .. when your 50k electric car needs a new battery after 5 years at more than the car costs what then . As stated we need a solution NOW not in 10 or 15 years
 
Did you read your own link? It clearly says that agricultural machinery travelling between a farm and its furthest field can do so using red Diesel - which has always been the case.

FWIW, our 8 year old EV battery is still working just fine and the car was well under 50k, even when new.
 
the black fox said:
But in all honesty your just nit picking .
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I think the word you were looking for there was "you're", being a contraction of "you are".

As for Elliot nit picking, quite the opposite.

The rules have always been enforced on the basis that, where a vehicle or tool uses rebated fuel, the right to do so includes travel on the public highway for the specific purpose of carrying out the permitted use. Nothing has changed in that respect.
 
the black fox said:
Yes but according to what I read they can’t use it on the roads .. it only takes some stupid customs plonker to stop a tractor going from farm to fields for a tank dip and it all goes tits up . But in all honesty your just nit picking .. when your 50k electric car needs a new battery after 5 years at more than the car costs what then . As stated we need a solution NOW not in 10 or 15 years
Click to expand...

I have no plans to ever own an electric car.

I doubt very much that HMRC/VOSA (or whatever agency) would ever expect a tractor to change from Red to White diesel when they need to traverse a few hundred metres up the road to another field. Nothing has changed with regards to agricultural use of red diesel.
 
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the black fox said:
I see that today we may get some help with the cost of living crisis , but it shows that boris and sunak have never lived in the real world , surely the easy way would be to subsidise diesel , every item we buy in the shops is delivered at some point by a diesel powered lorry , most home delivery’s are via a diesel powered van ( bar Amazon electrics vans ) most food produced is by diesel powered tractors . But in a stupid move red diesel for farm use is now gone ta ta ..
All the extra cost is being passed on to us end consumers . So surely the sensible action would to subsidise diesel and invest in a diesel refinery’s ,probably a short term fix as we swing towards renewables but action is needed NOW not in a mythical 2035 date
Click to expand...

Just NO all that will do is increase peoples use of the horrible cancer causing foul stuff
whilst I am happy to help out farmers its a s*** job.
no way to subsidise all the delivery crap that people now want same hour/same day.
we need to put the money into low carbon transport and for the time being people will pay more for there crap
 
It would be better to reduce VAT on everything in line with price increases, if prices go up, the amount the government receives in VAT goes up so they could reduce VAT and still have the same amount of tax revenue.
 
sirch said:
It would be better to reduce VAT on everything in line with price increases, if prices go up, the amount the government receives in VAT goes up so they could reduce VAT and still have the same amount of tax revenue.
Click to expand...

yup reasonable one that
think also a £1 supermarket visit tax
so each time you go to a major supermarket at the till you pay £1 on top of your bill
this would encourage people to do more each visit and cut down on the amount of short journeys to pop for a pint of milk and a tin of spam
 
Sod it then I’ll just take the government hand out ,doff my cap and use some to fill up my 4x4 to keep the economy running
 
Mr Bump said:
yup reasonable one that
think also a £1 supermarket visit tax
so each time you go to a major supermarket at the till you pay £1 on top of your bill
this would encourage people to do more each visit and cut down on the amount of short journeys to pop for a pint of milk and a tin of spam
Click to expand...

That's just what we want. Send more and more people to shop on Amazon having everything delivered
 
ecoleman said:
That's just what we want. Send more and more people to shop on Amazon having everything delivered
Click to expand...

food man not random s***e
food , the amount of people that pop down to the supermarket for a few items is staggering so tax them £1 per visit
which will encourage people to maximise each visit and think better about buying food
 
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Mr Bump said:
food man not random s***e
food , the amount of people that pop down to the supermarket for a few items is staggering so tax them £1 per visit
which will encourage people to maximise each visit and think better about buying food
Click to expand...

Fresh on Amazon.co.uk | Grocery delivery

Shop groceries online at Fresh on Amazon, choose from a great selection and receive your order at home.
www.amazon.co.uk
 
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yeah i know amazon do food but most people drag there arses and there diesel powered trucks to supermarkets
 
Mr Bump said:
yeah i know amazon do food but most people drag there arses and there diesel powered trucks to supermarkets
Click to expand...

They started charging 5p for a plastic bag and people stopped using them. Charge £1 tax for shopping and people WILL shop online.

Supermarkets will close, staff will loose jobs, competition will vanish and the government will get less tax as we all know how much tax Amazon pays.
 
ecoleman said:
Supermarkets will close, staff will loose jobs, competition will vanish and the government will get less tax as we all know how much tax Amazon pays.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you wrote there but the phrase "casting pearls before swine" comes to mind. :(
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I agree with everything you wrote there but the phrase "casting pearls before swine" comes to mind. :(
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You're probably quite right there.

He's a green fanatic who's cure for the cost of living crisis is to tax people to go shopping. I'd say that we're in this mess in the first place because of Green policies.
 
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I walk to my supermarket, almost daily.

I'm not paying £1 a visit.
 
ecoleman said:
They started charging 5p for a plastic bag and people stopped using them.
Click to expand...
Its 10p now, ( here at least) and "a bag for life" has also been dropped, where by they would replace a worn out carrier bag
Thankfully I can get all my shopping in 1 or 2 sports directs bags ( very strong) that I bought years ago.
 
sirch said:
That has already been implemented by way of fuel price increases for people who drive to a supermarket
Click to expand...


Usually, when we drive to the supermarket, we end up with more free "fuel" in the tank than we started with once we get home.

As for the cancer thing, yet again, it's conveniently forgetting just how toxic the benzene in petrol is as well as the fact that the majority of particulates emitted by motor vehicles comes from tyres, clutches and brakes.
 
Nod said:
Did you read your own link? It clearly says that agricultural machinery travelling between a farm and its furthest field can do so using red Diesel - which has always been the case.

FWIW, our 8 year old EV battery is still working just fine and the car was well under 50k, even when new.
Click to expand...
True but . . .

We bought a couple of thousand litres of red on the 1st day of the Ukraine invasion and had to pay 93p per litre for it. A year earlier it was just 45p. And I've been told that the current price is now £1.50:(

And there are new restictions on its use too, for example construction firms using it on sites are now forced to use the even more expensive white diesel.

It seems to me pretty obvious that the reason the Government is allowing the oil companies to make obscene profits without applying a windfall tax is obvious - they don't want to upset their friends and supporters.
 
Garry Edwards said:
True but . . .

We bought a couple of thousand litres of red on the 1st day of the Ukraine invasion and had to pay 93p per litre for it. A year earlier it was just 45p. And I've been told that the current price is now £1.50:(

And there are new restictions on its use too, for example construction firms using it on sites are now forced to use the even more expensive white diesel.

It seems to me pretty obvious that the reason the Government is allowing the oil companies to make obscene profits without applying a windfall tax is obvious - they don't want to upset their friends and supporters.
Click to expand...
During Covid we paid 25p/litre for heating oil, last year it was around 46p, this year currently it's 92p

It's going to cost me £2600 to fill my tank for winter and that's on top of my £1800 expected electricity bill
 
ecoleman said:
what is?
Click to expand...
The statement that I quoted "Where do you get your news? Red Diesel for farm use has not gone at all."

See my earlier post
Garry Edwards said:
True but . . .

We bought a couple of thousand litres of red on the 1st day of the Ukraine invasion and had to pay 93p per litre for it. A year earlier it was just 45p. And I've been told that the current price is now £1.50:(

And there are new restictions on its use too, for example construction firms using it on sites are now forced to use the even more expensive white diesel.

It seems to me pretty obvious that the reason the Government is allowing the oil companies to make obscene profits without applying a windfall tax is obvious - they don't want to upset their friends and supporters.
Click to expand...
 
Garry Edwards said:
Red Diesel for farm use has not gone at all."
Click to expand...
Could you expand on that?

Having read the advice carefully, I can't see any important difference in the rules to what I thought was the situation when we lived on the farm.
 
ecoleman said:
I was referring to the rules, not the price of red diesel, but I'm guessing you knew that
Click to expand...
My mistake, sorry. I miss-read your post as " Red Diesel for farm use has not gone up at all."
 
Garry Edwards said:
True but . . .

We bought a couple of thousand litres of red on the 1st day of the Ukraine invasion and had to pay 93p per litre for it. A year earlier it was just 45p. And I've been told that the current price is now £1.50:(

And there are new restictions on its use too, for example construction firms using it on sites are now forced to use the even more expensive white diesel.

It seems to me pretty obvious that the reason the Government is allowing the oil companies to make obscene profits without applying a windfall tax is obvious - they don't want to upset their friends and supporters.
Click to expand...

Been thinking this myself. I remember seeing some nonsense about the ban of red being to encourage more environmentally friendly options, but what EV alternatives are there with heavy plant? I think there's an EV excavator prototype being trialled in Europe, but there's a huge variety of excavators, material movers, shovels etc and then there are diesel generators - switching to the grid will be horrific with the insane electricity prices and not even practical/possible on many sites.

What other major product changes price as often as fuel? Why is there no cap on fuel prices? I don't think there's any regulator/oversight either (i.e. like Ofgen).
 
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