Copyright Holder for Racing Circuit Images

gordonfraser

gordonfraser

Suspended / Banned
Messages
54
Name
Gordon
Edit My Images
No
Hi all,

Quick question.

A friend just mentioned that you can't sell images you've taken at UK racing circuits as they hold the copyright to them. Is this true?

I was under the assumption that I took the photograph, therefore I own the rights to the image.

Obviously I am standing on circuit grounds and even though I've paid ticket price, I'm still on their territory.

Any help would be great,


Cheers

Gordon
 
read the ticket terms/conditions... I bet ya a quid theres summat about no photography allowed?
 
check your entry ticket - on the back are normally the terms and conditions..

I have one here for a Brands Hatch BSB practice day, part 17 on the back:

'the use of photographic equipment is allowed for private non-commercial purposes only....blah,blah,blah....the ticket holder herby assigns to MSV the copyright.... blah blah blah....'

I'm sure someone in the know will put this straight but I was told that you need to buy the rights to sell (depending on which series it is).
 
Rab34 said:
check your entry ticket - on the back are normally the terms and conditions..

I have one here for a Brands Hatch BSB practice day, part 17 on the back:

'the use of photographic equipment is allowed for private non-commercial purposes only....blah,blah,blah....the ticket holder herby assigns to MSV the copyright.... blah blah blah....'
Click to expand...

First of all, terms and conditions must be known before you you buy the ticket. Printing them on the back is no good as you only get that after you have paid your money. i.e. after you have entered into the contract.

In order to assign the copyright to the track or land owner, you would have to specifically write a letter which assigns them.

You own the copyright despite what those terms and conditions claim but if you were to try to use them commercially, they may try to make a claim or stop you.


Steve.
 
I’m no lawyer, but I bet that somewhere on the promotional literature and posted outside the event, in not so big text is something like ‘conditions of entry – terms and conditions apply – full terms on conditions on request (or can be found at www. Etc etc)

Afraid I been to a lot of motor events, and others, and its standard practice.
 
gordonfraser said:
Hi all,

Quick question.

A friend just mentioned that you can't sell images you've taken at UK racing circuits as they hold the copyright to them. Is this true?

I was under the assumption that I took the photograph, therefore I own the rights to the image.

Obviously I am standing on circuit grounds and even though I've paid ticket price, I'm still on their territory.

Any help would be great,


Cheers

Gordon
Click to expand...

I don't think Knockhill are all that bothered, in fact if anything I think they're more than happy to have pics posted all over the internet etc, after all it's free publicity for them. I think there may be some copyright issue regarding BSB pics though - Colin from Power Images would be the person to ask though :thumbs:
 
petersmart said:
probably not even post them on a website unless viewing is restricted
Click to expand...

There are hundreds/thousands of images on TP and other forums that fall into this category, the restrictions apply when you are marketing/selling the images, although its probably difficult for the circuit owners to police due to the large number of unofficial images available through the web and that fact that there are usually hundreds of non official togs at most of these events taking images not all of them for personal use.
 
Rab34 said:
check your entry ticket - on the back are normally the terms and conditions..

I have one here for a Brands Hatch BSB practice day, part 17 on the back:

'the use of photographic equipment is allowed for private non-commercial purposes only....blah,blah,blah....the ticket holder herby assigns to MSV the copyright.... blah blah blah....'
Click to expand...
If it is only on the back of a ticket which you get After you have paid it can not be enforced unless it is somewhere you can read Before you pay. As you can not enter into a contract with out knowing this at the time of payment.
There must be signage for you to read first.
 
Most places have web sites and advertising with this info posted. Every big event you pay for nowadays will have this. I don't think it needs to be posted though. Owners of the property/event set rules and you have to abide. Most people go to watch the event - not to take photos. Those that do go to take photos and sell commercially are given a licence from the organiser of the event.
 
EOS_JD said:
Most places have web sites and advertising with this info posted. Every big event you pay for nowadays will have this. I don't think it needs to be posted though.
Click to expand...

By law it has to be on disply at the event. You have to be able to read it before you enter.
 
Do you expect they don't? Most have bought their tickjets before the event :) The T&C will also be on that.
 
EOS_JD said:
Do you expect they don't? Most have bought their tickjets before the event :) The T&C will also be on that.
Click to expand...

Putting the terms and conditions on a ticket is a waste of time - As it is for a shop to put theirs on a receipt as it is too late.

The terms and conditions must be known to the customer (or available to view) before the transaction.

After the fact terms and conditions are invalid.

Also, it is my opinion that a blanket statement saying that they own the rights to all images taken would be too broad a statement to stand up in law. They don't know who took what and even if they did, each photographer would need to specifically sign the rights over to the organisers for them to have them. They can't just say they own them.

All they can do is try to make a claim if an image is used commercially.


Steve.
 
Private landowners are able to set any T&Cs they want. Every big event will have the T&Cs posted prior to the event. You cannot use your images for commercial use if you do not have the appropriate consents for use.

This is an argument about nothing
 
EOS_JD said:
Private landowners are able to set any T&Cs they want.
Click to expand...

Only if they are legal.

EOS_JD said:
Every big event will have the T&Cs posted prior to the event. You cannot use your images for commercial use if you do not have the appropriate consents for use.
Click to expand...

Correct. But that doesn't automatically transfer the copyright to them as has been suggested.


Steve.
 
I disagree. You can use your images for commercial use whenever and wherever you like. The circuit owner may not covertly try to get an entrant to assign their copyright (T&C on reverse of ticket). Where the commercial use MAY fall down is through the property license.

They may require a property license for commercial use - that is NOT the same thing as copyright. It would also be possible to pass th eproperty license fee on to the end user as costs.

Photographers need to stick together more and assert their rights, not give them away at the first sign of a hurdle.
 
Whatever the section of law, you cannot use your images for commercial use - or you "could" face litigation (ikelyhood that you probably won't but depends on what you are doing and with who!
 
EOS_JD said:
Whatever the section of law, you cannot use your images for commercial use - or you "could" face litigation (ikelyhood that you probably won't but depends on what you are doing and with who!
Click to expand...

and you would most likely win in court.
as has been said before, you cant agree to a contract if you havent seen it before you agree to it.
otherwise people would start selling tickets that say on the back 'by purchasing this ticket you have agreed to give me a million quid'

the long and the short of it is that you own the copyright of the images, and the circuit owners know that. And they really couldnt care less if you sold a few of your images.
 
Gary said:
and you would most likely win in court.
as has been said before, you cant agree to a contract if you havent seen it before you agree to it.
otherwise people would start selling tickets that say on the back 'by purchasing this ticket you have agreed to give me a million quid'

the long and the short of it is that you own the copyright of the images, and the circuit owners know that. And they really couldnt care less if you sold a few of your images.
Click to expand...

But it's not just circuit owners that may care. (they probably care the least). The Pro togs at the event might care as it's their bread and butter.

99% of people don't care about the T&Cs at events. In any event they will be posted on the web, on the back of the ticket and at the event - I doubt any reputable event would miss that now.
 
Lydden Hill near Dover request £50 if you are shooting commercially.
 
EOS_JD said:
Whatever the section of law, you cannot use your images for commercial use - or you "could" face litigation
Click to expand...

You can... in the knowledge that you may be asked to pay a licence and that it may end up in court.

Probably wouldn't get that far though.

Also, even if buying a ticket did constitute a contract to pass over rights, breaking a contract is not a criminal offence.


Steve.
 
We are saying similar things I thnk - I agree it probably wouldn't get to court. Worth just being aware that it could might put peple off. By the way a licence puchase isn't cheap!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top