Commercially awkward situation - help!

ekimeno

ekimeno

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Mike
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So I agreed by email with the organisers of a mountain bike ride on Sunday to cover the event with photography of the participants. Basically they said that I would be more than welcome to take pictures of the ride and I agreed that I needed the experience and since they didn't have a professional photographer to cover the ride, I would be more than willing to do it.

I asked them if it would be OK to put the photos up on my website for the participants to choose which photos they wanted - the way I had been doing with my regular Tuesday night bike race. They said it was fine. I also asked if I could bring some flyers along to put in the participants packs for once they'd finished the ride. They said this would be OK.

After the ride yesterday, I put the photos up on my website and sent them an email saying that it was done and if they wouldn't mind, could they include a link on their website to mine so that participants can buy prints from me.

Today, I get an email from one of the sub-organisers that although he sees no problem doing this, the club owner would like to come to some sort of commercial arrangement before they do this. Although I don't know yet what they are expecting, I don't see how they should receive any financial benefit from my time and hard work. Unless, of course they can guarantee me a certain level of sales, I might be willing to cut them in a minor percentage, but this whole thing is starting to stink.

Perhaps I should just leave it at that and take what small amount of sales I'm currently getting from the flyer I included in the participants packs...
 
It's normal practice to try and get a cut from commercial operations for redirecting customers from websites. Now the amount they get doesn't have to be huge and you may get more business than from your flyer's.

They are probably only trying to get revenue for club funds. Make them an offer which you think is reasonable. The other point is how are they going to track the sales anyway.:naughty:

If it works out to both of your advantages, maybe next year other clubs may get interested and you'll get more business :thumbs:
 
Chappers said:
It's normal practice to try and get a cut from commercial operations for redirecting customers from websites. Now the amount they get doesn't have to be huge and you may get more business than from your flyer's.

They are probably only trying to get revenue for club funds. Make them an offer which you think is reasonable. The other point is how are they going to track the sales anyway.:naughty:

If it works out to both of your advantages, maybe next year other clubs may get interested and you'll get more business :thumbs:
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This is what I was thinking.. I just hope they don't try and impose anything. This should be my call and anything I give them will be in the form of a donation... depending on how well I do with this event. :shrug:
 
i would prob drop them an email and find out what they are after, didnt seem to suggest money to me. but prob is meant to. might even settle for an exchange of use of the images on the website and advertising or something like.
 
If it's not a good deal
Walk away

However you may be pleasantly surprised
 
ekimeno said:
Although I don't know yet what they are expecting, I don't see how they should receive any financial benefit from my time and hard work. Unless, of course they can guarantee me a certain level of sales, I might be willing to cut them in a minor percentage, but this whole thing is starting to stink.
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This is pretty standard and probably something they've done in the past with pro togs. An event photographer purchases the "rights" to shoot an event and in return gets marketing from the event organiser to promote sales. It could be a percentage of sales or a flat fee.

Having said that, the organiser should have made it clear beforehand what they were expecting as, by the sound of it, you were very clear about your intentions. It might be worth pointing this out (politely) and offer a token as a gesture of goodwill and in the future you'd be happy to work with them on a more formal footing.
 
As already said this is quite standard in some circles of event photography.

I was asked to cover some equine events up in Scotland at one location and they wanted 20% of my turnover (not profit!) and I walked away. Some places ask for a fixed fee and some have not cottoned onto it.

I am surprised more places don't ask for money to be honest and I think we will see a rise in this as word gets out.


I alway try and go for a percentage of profit and have never gone above 10% yet and I get any agreement in writing to cover events for the future.

As part of a recent deal I shot some stock shots for an equine centre that I then licensed to them to use for website usage and also hard copy publication in return for the rights to shoot their events.

I would be interested to see how you get on.

Cheers,

BobR
 
Sometimes a lot of clubs are looking for good deals for their members and this drives a lot of decisions, simply by offering club members discounts on your services might be more than enough?
 
Thanks for your responses - some valuable experience given here. I'll let you know what the outcome is.
 
Sadly what the OP has talked about happens all to often.

Fortunately, whenever I agree to take on a commission / event, I have a contract pre-written that I ask them to read and agree to before I even set foot on the place.

We used to have a mobile unit, and would travel around Yorkshire and shoot/print on the day. All too often, the event organisers didn't know what to charge. £50 a day was the common figure, which was maybe £10 more than I was wanting to pay. We usually made some arrangement whereby I would photograph their daughters / something for them whilst I was there and some prints in return for a patch at a big event etc.

Sadly, you've been hit here after the event, which sort of makes it awkward for you going forward with these people.

I would say to them you're happy to make a donation based on sales, maybe £10 a day or something perhaps? If you're doing well out of it, be fair in return and you'll probably build a good relationship.

If they're a club, then they'll be wanting some pics for the websites? Try and make an arrangement with them etc :)

Just my two penneth worth of course....

Lee
 
Spoke to the organiser today by phone and we agreed that if I sold a certain quantity I would make a small donation. In exchange for this he has agreed to link to my website from theirs and do a special email to all participants with my details... Worked out better than I thought actually, and we both end up gaining. :)

Oh, and thanks everyone again for the helpful advice... I might have gone into that conversation with guns blazing...:thankyou:
 
Good result I would say :)
 
Sounds good. well done. i assume this sets you up as the regular tog at the events they hold?
 
Win:Win is always the best solution.

I'm doing something similar myself this weekend.

I'm doing a small charity event and I'm selling prints onsite and I'm donating 20% of the onsite printing turnover to the charity. All the charity asked for was the right to use images on their website and newsletter. It was my decision to dontate to the charity however, I will be advertising the amount that goes to charity my reasoning is that as the people are attending to support the charity I think they'll be more likely to buy = more sales = more profit for me = more fundrasing for the charity. The charity will also provide a link on their website to my site for people to purchase prints after the event using my PayPal linked eCommerce gallery.
 
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