colour balancing light modifiers

Hodders

Hodders

Suspended / Banned
Messages
951
Name
Ben
Edit My Images
Yes
Any ideas on the best way of dealing with the following:

All my flash modifiers produce light of a very similar colour balance. But my official HiLite produces a warmer light that shows up as a yellow tinge on anything lit by it. As a white background it's fine, but I sued it as a huge softbox recently and the problem was really apparent.

How can I shift the light by about 200 to 300 kelvin. I have got a variety of gels but they are all far stronger than this.

Any ideas for what must be a fairly common issue.
 
If it's your only light source put a custom wb in your camera of 200-300k above flash, maybe?
 
Hodders said:
Any ideas on the best way of dealing with the following:

All my flash modifiers produce light of a very similar colour balance. But my official HiLite produces a warmer light that shows up as a yellow tinge on anything lit by it. As a white background it's fine, but I sued it as a huge softbox recently and the problem was really apparent.

How can I shift the light by about 200 to 300 kelvin. I have got a variety of gels but they are all far stronger than this.

Any ideas for what must be a fairly common issue.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? Sorry to doubt, but a 'really apparent' shift is unlike a HiLite, and if you've measued it in some way at 2-300K, then that is not much of a shift at all.

Could it have been something else? Can you repeat the effect? Could it have been modelling light polution? Environment, that kind of thing?
 
HoppyUK said:
Are you sure about this? Sorry to doubt, but a 'really apparent' shift is unlike a HiLite, and if you've measued it in some way at 2-300K, then that is not much of a shift at all.

Could it have been something else? Can you repeat the effect? Could it have been modelling light polution? Environment, that kind of thing?
Click to expand...

Basically I agree with Richard, it's unlikely (but not impossible) that the colour has changed significantly, and other factors are more likely to be the cause.
It's worth bearing in mind though that even the very best fabrics used in the very best softboxes etc can only be guaranteed to hold their colour temperature for 2 years, so if it's an old one...
 
I'll try to set up a more controlled test.

I've got some time this afternoon - so I'll try to post some images.
 
OK here you go as you can see it is very pronounced.

Shot 1:

left hand section lit only by flash through my big octobox, right hand shot lit only by hilite. All flash heads are the same make/model/age. Hi-lite is about 18 months old and has always been in a studio with little or no sunlight on it. WB setting in teh camera is identical for both shots with no correction in LR.

no-wb.jpg


Shot 2:

Next up are the same two images each with AWB applied using lightroom dropper picking up on the cream area.

awb-wb.jpg


I might try altering the colour balance by putting coloured paper in the hi-lite and varying the size of the sheet ?

Any other ideas.
 
what power are all the flashes set at - it could be that the colour temp changes at different powers
 
Richard King said:
what power are all the flashes set at - it could be that the colour temp changes at different powers
Click to expand...

Good shout :thumbs:

Some heads go quite yellow at low power, which is where I'd expect a studio head to be in a HiLite.

Edit: could be that, perhaps compounding with a smidge of warmth from the HiLite, plus maybe a touch of blue from the softbox?

The way I handle colour shifts, though it usually only happens with things like bounce-fill off a slightly warm ceiling, is to forget the background and just correct for the main subject/foregound light. You can hardly notice it then.
 
Last edited:
HoppyUK said:
Good shout :thumbs:

Some heads go quite yellow at low power, which is where I'd expect a studio head to be in a HiLite.

Edit: could be that, perhaps compounding with a smidge of warmth from the HiLite, plus maybe a touch of blue from the softbox?

The way I handle colour shifts, though it usually only happens with things like bounce-fill off a slightly warm ceiling, is to forget the background and just correct for the main subject/foregound light. You can hardly notice it then.
Click to expand...
Maybe...
But there's a measured difference of 870K, 5640 to 4770, that's one hell of a shift!
 
They are all set to about 30 to 70%. And are Lencarta heads so Garry can affirm that the colour shift is not that great.

The colour shift is noticeable and is certainly not ideal. I might try some gels tomorrow and see how that works.
 
Hodders said:
They are all set to about 30 to 70%. And are Lencarta heads so Garry can affirm that the colour shift is not that great.

The colour shift is noticeable and is certainly not ideal. I might try some gels tomorrow and see how that works.
Click to expand...
That's right, even at extreme high/low settings, the SmartFlash only varies by a max of 200K, the others by even less, so it's very unlikely for the problem to be coming from there.

Which leaves us with the Hi-Lite and the environment...

BTW, don't know what other modifiers you may be using but the Lencarta softboxes have a 'cold' outer diffuser and the inner diffuser is 200K warmer. Used together as normal, or used without either diffuser the result is neutral but with the inner one removed the light from just the front one will be cold, which could exaggerate any other problems that are there.

Your problem is driving me mad because the answer to it doesn't jump out and hit me - if you solve it on your own, please be sure to tell us what caused it:)
 
Hodders said:
They are all set to about 30 to 70%. And are Lencarta heads so Garry can affirm that the colour shift is not that great.

The colour shift is noticeable and is certainly not ideal. I might try some gels tomorrow and see how that works.
Click to expand...

That's quite a shift you've got going on there. Just to confirm, it's not modelling light pollution then?

What does the HiLite look like? Is the front noticeably yellow, or maybe the inside? You should be able to notice that much.

If not, I'm wondering if one of the heads has gone off for some reason. Garry would have a view on that I guess, but I'd check each head first, individually, to make sure one is not playing up.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's quite a shift you've got going on there. Just to confirm, it's not modelling light pollution then?

What does the HiLite look like? Is the front noticeably yellow, or maybe the inside? You should be able to notice that much.

If not, I'm wondering if one of the heads has gone off for some reason. Garry would have a view on that I guess, but I'd check each head first, individually, to make sure one is not playing up.
Click to expand...
Unlikely, these things normally just either work perfectly or not at all, but it's got to be worth checking.

And I think that modelling lamp pollution is unlikely, unless an extremely long shutter speed is being used
 
why not

1. turn off all the modelling lamps
2. do a test shot with each head at 25, 50 70 and 100% with and without the modifier
3. make sure the ambient light is killed off

you will find out exactly where the issue is

BTW. Lee filters will do a filter to correct your issue
 
Garry Edwards said:
That's right, even at extreme high/low settings, the SmartFlash only varies by a max of 200K, the others by even less, so it's very unlikely for the problem to be coming from there.
Click to expand...

They are the ElitePro heads - which BTW I am very happy with.

HoppyUK said:
That's quite a shift you've got going on there. Just to confirm, it's not modelling light pollution then?

What does the HiLite look like? Is the front noticeably yellow, or maybe the inside? You should be able to notice that much.
Click to expand...

Walls/ceiling are white but both had black curtains pulled out so no light source other than the hilite.

Garry Edwards said:
I think that modelling lamp pollution is unlikely, unless an extremely long shutter speed is being used
Click to expand...

1/125sec F8 on both with the blinds closed so no ambient at all.

Richard King said:
BTW. Lee filters will do a filter to correct your issue
Click to expand...

I'm pretty convinced it is the hilite fabric which looks slightly cream compared to the softbox. Essentially I think that the hilite is acting as a yellow filter.

I've got a whole load of gels for colouring backgrounds so I'll play with those. The hilite is lit with two heads so I'll just use one till I get the light colour right.

Thanks - as always - for the help guys. It's always useful talking through stuff to understand what is going on.
 
If the HiLite is indeed the problem with a visibly creamy looking front, I would send it back. 870K shift is unacceptable IMHO.
 
It's over 2 years old - gelling it would be the easiest option. I'll see how I get on...
 
Hodders said:
It's over 2 years old - gelling it would be the easiest option. I'll see how I get on...
Click to expand...
Hmm.. Gelling it would need a 281 Three Quarter C.T. Blue from Lee filters, which is actually a filter designed to convert tungsten to daylight.

From what you describe, it does seem to be the Hi-Lite that's causing the problem and although, as I pointed out earlier, all softbox material will change colour over a period of time (but it should be no more than around 200K in 2 years) this colour shift is massive. I would have thought that Lastolite would accept that something has gone wrong and supply you with a replacement diffuser, it has to be worth asking them. They have a good rep for customer service.
 
Last edited:
Hodders said:
It's over 2 years old - gelling it would be the easiest option. I'll see how I get on...
Click to expand...

Well, yes, but even so... Lastolite are a pretty good company and that can't be the norm for a HiLite.

I would take a shot of the actual HiLite and a softbox firing side by side, and send it to them.

Edit: LOL crossed post with Garry :D
 
Last edited:
Garry Edwards said:
Hmm.. Gelling it would need a 281 Three Quarter C.T. Blue from Lee filters, which is actually a filter designed to convert tungsten to daylight.

From what you describe, it does seem to be the Hi-Lite that's causing the problem and although, as I pointed out earlier, all softbox material will change colour over a period of time (but it should be no more than around 200K in 2 years) this colour shift is massive. I would have thought that Lastolite would accept that something has gone wrong and supply you with a replacement diffuser, it has to be worth asking them. They have a good rep for customer service.
Click to expand...

HoppyUK said:
Well, yes, but even so... Lastolite are a pretty good company and that can't be the norm for a HiLite.

I would take a shot of the actual HiLite and a softbox firing side by side, and send it to them.

Edit: LOL crossed post with Garry :D
Click to expand...

I'll put some shots up later with softbox next to highlight. If the difference is apparent I'll escalate to lastolite.
 
OK here's the latest. It is the hilite. Pictures of each light show a definite cast to teh hilite.

Anyway, some CTB gel later and:

Before (right hand of shot is lit by soft box, left hand by hilite):

IMG_1004.jpg


After:

IMG_1005.jpg


Still not perfect, but a whole load better !
 
What do you think - do the above shots look OK ?

On the after shot setting the neutral beanbag colour to be 'grey' there is less than a 1% variation in any of the RGB value ratios going from right to left - looks good !
 
Probably good enough for portrait use, but personally I would have asked the supplier to sort out the problem.
 
I might well approach them, but it's nice to have a solution in place if they don't deal with it....
 
Did you ever contact Lastolite ? I find it shocking that 18 months - 2 years down the line you have an expensive product that has in my eyes failed .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top