Choosing between the following studio kits - help

karansaraf

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Karan
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I made a previous thread regarding lighting techniques for studio settings, but now need help on the equipment side.

Myself and a friend have been asked to do the studio photography for a Ball Event (Tux and Dresses).
This will be our first time doing anything of the sort. It will just be pretty simple photographs. Couples or groups of up to 10 will be standing in front of our dark grey backdrop and we will take pictures of them. Nothing fancy, all they want is a picture to commemorate the occasion that makes them look good.

I've been looking at different lighting kits within our budget and have narrowed it down to five choices, but do not know which one to pick. Can any of you guys help me?

Here are the choices:

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-interfit-int182-ex150-mark-ii-two-head-kit/p1025920

http://www.backdropsource.co.uk/Pro...att-flash-light-kit-with-umbrella-and-softbox

http://www.backdropsource.co.uk/Pro...e=320-watt-flash-light-kit-with-two-softboxes

http://www.backdropsource.co.uk/Pro...e=320-watt-flash-light-kit-with-two-umbrellas

http://www.backdropsource.co.uk/Pro...t-flash-light-twin-umbrella-and-barn-door-kit

Any help on the matter is much appreciated. Also, if you think none of the above are suitable and could suggest alternative kits for similar prices, that would be very helpful too!
Thank you.
 
im in the same boat, so would like to see the outocome, out of the ones you have listed id go for the barn door ones, as then you can angle light with gels etc aswell
 
Actually I have been told that the ones I posted are all useless for what I need, so I now HAVE To go for the more expensive ones.

These are the choices I am left with now.

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-elinchrom-d-lite-200-400-twin-head-umbrella-kit/p1029456

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-elinchrom-d-lite-2-two-head-kit/p1012337

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-lastolite-lumen8-sv-lighting-kit/p1029807

Notice I have the D Lite 2 kit there, not the 4 as that probably is too much for me now.

What would yo usay about those?

And any thoughts regarding combination of umbrella/umbrella, umbrella/softbox, softbox/softbox? Any combinations you would choose/not choose for any particular reason?
 
As per my answer to your question on PN.

Don't expect adequate power, consistent colour temperature, consistent output, fast recycling or good build quality from any of those.
The first link (Interfit) is the least bad. At least it has interchangeable reflectors, although they are a non-standard fitting and the range/quality of the accessories is limited.
Have you read this article ?
I don't agree that barn doors will be useful for your purpose.
 
Garry, what do you consider the must have accessories for a studio (excluding lights)?
 
Garry, what do you consider the must have accessories for a studio (excluding lights)?
Everything on the Lencarta website:)

Seriously though, it depends on the type of work, size of studio and skills of the photographer. Everyone has different needs.

My reference to barn doors being pretty useless for the OP was based on what he wants to use the lights for, it wasn't a comment on the efficacy of barn doors.
 
Karan, assuming you are going to want to take full length shots (no point shooting head and shoulders when they are showing off an expensive gown), you're going to struggle for light with anything less than 400W. Ideally you want 800W and a large octabox but that's out of your budget range I assume so you may get away with the 400/200 D-Lite setup if you're clever with the lighting and use reflectors to compliment.

I'd heed Garry's advice on everything that doesn't share a sentence with Lencarta :D
 
Karan, assuming you are going to want to take full length shots (no point shooting head and shoulders when they are showing off an expensive gown), you're going to struggle for light with anything less than 400W. Ideally you want 800W and a large octabox but that's out of your budget range I assume so you may get away with the 400/200 D-Lite setup if you're clever with the lighting and use reflectors to compliment.

I'd heed Garry's advice on everything that doesn't share a sentence with Lencarta :D

I think that 300 J would be enough for this, the extra cost of more powerful heads probably isn't justfied. After all, just increasing ISO from 100 to 200 will effective double to flash power without compromising image quality to a noticeable degree.

I'd heed Garry's advice on everything that doesn't share a sentence with Lencarta :D
I think that's a little bit harsh, even with the :D there:'(
I've been answering forum questions on studio lighting for at least 10 years and I was on Talk Photography too before I became involved with Lencarta. I do take care to try to give honest and useful answers and to avoid pimping, and I don't think that my association with Lencarta has changed that in any way. And this is just one of the many threads where I haven't recommended any make. As I pointd out in another thread, my advertiser 'status' here is paid for by me (photolearn) and not by Lencarta.
 
I think that 300 J would be enough for this, the extra cost of more powerful heads probably isn't justfied. After all, just increasing ISO from 100 to 200 will effective double to flash power without compromising image quality to a noticeable degree.

A very good point...

I think that's a little bit harsh, even with the :D there:'(

No it's not, it was complete tongue in cheek :)

I fully agree that you're pretty fair when it comes to recommending brands and usually advise on situation. Let's be honest as well, Lencarta more than holds its own when compared with the rest of the budget ranges so I'd recommend them over other similar spec'd brands as well.

No offense intended... :thumbs:
 
No it's not, it was complete tongue in cheek
In which case I apologise.
 
Yes I will be taking full length shots.

Just so I can be clear, the D Lite 2 Kit has two heads each with 200J or w/s of power. The Lastolite Lumen8 SV Lighting Kit has two heads, each with 400J of power. Am I then to assume that the D Lite 200/400 Kit has one head that with 200 and one with 400J? As in the specifications, it only mentions 200J power...

Also neo2810, is there a reason you recommended the D Lite 200/400 over the Lastolite, which is more powerful (with two heads each with 400J - as powerful as the D Lite 4 flash heads)?

And Garry, I know you said you didn't want to specifically recommend any brands, but I basically have to choose between the three kits that I've posted, and that being the case, if you were in my position, with the knowledge you have on lighting, which one do you think would be most appropriate? If you still do not wish to recommend one, then that's fair enough and I can respect that, it would just be a big help :)

http://go.talkphotography.co.uk/?id...-lite-200-400-twin-head-umbrella-kit/p1029456

http://go.talkphotography.co.uk/?id.../buy-elinchrom-d-lite-2-two-head-kit/p1012337

http://go.talkphotography.co.uk/?id...buy-lastolite-lumen8-sv-lighting-kit/p1029807

Edit: There's also a chance I may be able to get a used D Lite 4 Kit for £400, so IF that is still available in 2/3 weeks when I am going to commit to buying a kit, then I may go for that one as well.
 
yes the 200-400 elinchrom kit does come with 1 200w and 1 400w head.

i went for the d lite4s when i was looking, and i still like them, but find slightly too powerful for where i use them, as far as im aware the elinchrom are considered a better make than the lastolite, and with power not being everything you need to weigh it up yourself.

The Elinchrom accesories(like softboxes etc) are pretty expensive compared to most other places, and even umbrellas need to be different to standard as the hole is through the head to insert them.

out of the kits you have listed i would go for the Dlite200/400 with umbrellas.
for another option, personally i would consider Lencarta. They seem to get good reviews from people using them andprice seems pretty reasonable for decent quality lights. There has been talk of slight delays on shipping, but if you order a couple of weeks before delivery you should have plenty of time to try them out before using them
 
Power is just ONE of the things you need to consider - and the difference betweeen 300 & 400J is almost too small to measure, it's just a 1/4 of a stop...

I can't answer for other people but I imaging that neo2810 may prefer the Elinchrom to the Lumen 8 because Elinchrom produce a good quality of light, even though the build quality may not be the best, but Elinchrom accessories are very expensive.

If you want my recommendation (and bear in mind that I'm techie, customer support and photographer for them) then I recommend the Lencarta Starter Kit If you get it, it will include everything you need for this particular job, including an excellent radio trigger. There are plenty of variations on this kit available, but the Starter Kit is all you need.
 
There has been talk of slight delays on shipping
Now history, as everything is now at the new warehouse.
 
I would give another thumbs up for the Elemental range of Studio kits.

I posted this the other day in response to a similar enquiry:

I have a set of the Elemental Studio lights, the "M" Series Pro Studio 600 cost circa £499 August 2008 model, I have not used them much at all due to an arm injury - think only twice in the last 6 months - its the same as per the link below bar the radio trigger, but you can pick up better wireless triggers from eBay such as the Yongnuo RF-602, which act as a wireless camera shutter, flash and studio lights trigger.........

An M Series Studio kit got a best buy recommendation in the March 2009 edition of Practical Photography - click the link for details of the kit and the review:

http://www.studio-flash.com/m-series...600-p-331.html


As said above I have only used them a few times, but their quality and ease of use for me has been very good.

I had used a Portaflash system (similar to the Interfit's in terms of performance/quality) before which in comparison feels quite flimsy, the flash heads are made from toughened aluminium, and I imagine will withstand most photographic conditions, the heads have an in built umbrella bracket too.

The in-built stabilizer ensures a consistent power output regardless of variations in the AC supply (this was important to me as we do suffer from voltage fluctuations / power cuts more than the norm in our area), a fan removes heat quickly and quietly from within the strobe. Power levels can be set from 1/32 to 1/1 steplessly. The strobes will automatically dump excess power when lowering the output - gave me a fright first time it flashed as I reduced the power!

You can via a "DIM" button on the rear of the strobes, switch the modelling lamp off when the flash is triggered. This helps prevent heat build up and prolongs the life of both flash tube and modelling lamp. All of the accesories for the M series are compatible with the Bowens S fitting.

Everything is contained in robust storage bags - my only small gripe is that I find dismantling / assembling the softbox a tad hard (made worse by my arm injury), this is not unique to Elemental, and probably explains why most people leave their softbox assembled.

Hope this does not confuse further - the choice of kits is very varied - I like Elemental as they are fairly locally based to me and you can get good advice at the end of a phone.
 
Thanks again for the further recommendations, there's just a lot to choose from! And expense is another issue, considering I'm a financially struggling medical student! Hmm...

Also, having read four or five tutorials on flash equipment, I have some questions:

1. I read about guide numbers, and how to work out what aperture you should be shooting with your camera, you divide the distance the light source is to the subject by the guide number eg. if your flash head with a guide number of 80 ft is 8 ft away from the subject, then you should be shooting with a camera aperture of f/10. Correct?

In another (slightly confusing) tutorial I then came across the phrase "measure your flash aperture" and couldn't figure out whether measuring flash aperture was the same as the above (measuring what aperture to set your lens to for correct exposure with external flash heads using guide number and distance) or whether this was a separate thing altogether?

2. Will it be easy to get good lighting with two shoot through umbrellas as compared to softboxes? I have read your studio lighting theme guides Garry and you mention that shoot throughs aren't much different to softboxes, so I guess it's just more to do with my familiarity with softboxes/complete inexperience with umbrellas more than actually thinking that softboxes are significantly better than umbrellas. This is because I have been at a couple of studio shoots where the photographer used two large softboxes, at around 30-40 degrees either side of the subjects and achieved some good results with them, whereas I've never seen umbrellas being used and would feel more out of my depth with them!

3. Regarding lighting positioning. I mentioned in No. 2 above about seeing a photographer (in an identical setting to the one I have been hired to do - full length shots of couples or groups up to 10 people in front of a 3m wide backdrop) use two large softboxes 30-40 degrees either side of subjects and slightly elevated (perhaps 7-9 ft high?). The results of that shoot came out pretty well and I thought to myself to use the same set up. Now some more people have recommended that set up to me, whereas others have told me to avoid it like the plague as if it is a really bad way to do things. This has made me very confused as to where to put the two lights, especially the fill flash, as some people have said to go with the above example, someone else said the fill flash should be behind the camera, elevated to 12 ft and others have recommended other conflicting positions etc etc... Any help?



Also thank you everyone for being very helpful with your responses. I realise my extremely noobish and somewhat clueless questions may be very tedious to answer! :D
 
In which case I apologise.

dont!

I can vouch for the fact that the lencarta kit is 'awesome' and does everything I need and has plenty of power, don't let Garry's understated support deflect you from the fact that they should be a serious consideration.

You can spend less, you can spend a lot more, but I'm not sure you can get a better price/quality balance
 
1. I read about guide numbers, and how to work out what aperture you should be shooting with your camera, you divide the distance the light source is to the subject by the guide number eg. if your flash head with a guide number of 80 ft is 8 ft away from the subject, then you should be shooting with a camera aperture of f/10. Correct?

Actually you divide the guide number by the distance to arrive at the aperture. You need to be aware that there are two different ways of expressing guide numbers, metres and feet - but the answer is the same, whether you divide the distance in metres into the guide number in meters or the distance in feet into the distance in feet. Guide numbers are measured with a specific lighting modifier (e.g. a standard reflector) and at 100 ISO and (should be) measured in a space that's large enough for ceilings and walls not to inflate the figures.

In another (slightly confusing) tutorial I then came across the phrase "measure your flash aperture" and couldn't figure out whether measuring flash aperture was the same as the above (measuring what aperture to set your lens to for correct exposure with external flash heads using guide number and distance) or whether this was a separate thing altogether?
There are a lot of tutorials on the interweb that I don't understand either. :) Maybe s/he was talking about using a flash meter.

2. Will it be easy to get good lighting with two shoot through umbrellas as compared to softboxes? I have read your studio lighting theme guides Garry and you mention that shoot throughs aren't much different to softboxes, so I guess it's just more to do with my familiarity with softboxes/complete inexperience with umbrellas more than actually thinking that softboxes are significantly better than umbrellas. This is because I have been at a couple of studio shoots where the photographer used two large softboxes, at around 30-40 degrees either side of the subjects and achieved some good results with them, whereas I've never seen umbrellas being used and would feel more out of my depth with them!
Shoot through umbrellas have the potential to produce similar light qualtity to softboxes simply because they can be placed as close to the subject as softboxes can, this is different to reflective umbrellas because reflective ones face the wrong way. But this doesn't matter to you, because for this job you won't be able to place them close anyway - so reflective umbrellas are a much better choice than shoot throughs, which will scatter light everywhere.
Umbrellas are very portable and very cheap. Softboxes would be fine too, but they are neither portable nor cheap and I feel that ones big enough for your purpose may be outside your budget.
3. Regarding lighting positioning. I mentioned in No. 2 above about seeing a photographer (in an identical setting to the one I have been hired to do - full length shots of couples or groups up to 10 people in front of a 3m wide backdrop) use two large softboxes 30-40 degrees either side of subjects and slightly elevated (perhaps 7-9 ft high?). The results of that shoot came out pretty well and I thought to myself to use the same set up. Now some more people have recommended that set up to me, whereas others have told me to avoid it like the plague as if it is a really bad way to do things. This has made me very confused as to where to put the two lights, especially the fill flash, as some people have said to go with the above example, someone else said the fill flash should be behind the camera, elevated to 12 ft and others have recommended other conflicting positions etc etc... Any help?
The lighting arrangement you describe is known as 'event lighting'. That's a perjorative term but this type of lighting does actually work for this type of shoot.
The advantage of 'event lighting' is that it's extremely easy to set up and to get consistent results and there isn't a big problem with shadows from one person getting on to someone else's face. The disadvantage is that the lighting is bland and everyone ends up with a fat face, but that is the accepted standard for event photography.
A lot of people get confused about fill lighting. A fill light is a light that illuminates ALL of the subject as seen by the camera, therefore it has to be on axis with the lens, either immediately above, below or behind the camera, never to one side.
But don't worry about that. What you need is one light each side and a bit above for your purpose, and set at equal power, even though one light each side wouldn't cut it for portrait photography (unless you believe what you read in some camera magazines):)
A better arrangement, if the venue is suitable, is to have one light with an umbrella off to one side and above a bit and to bounce the other light off of the white ceiling, using a standard or high intensity reflector. But of course, for that to work, you will need the ceiling to be both white and low enough.

I can vouch for the fact that the lencarta kit is 'awesome' and does everything I need and has plenty of power, don't let Garry's understated support deflect you from the fact that they should be a serious consideration.

You can spend less, you can spend a lot more, but I'm not sure you can get a better price/quality balance
Thanks for that Keirik, yes I suppose I do understate. That's just my personality (or lack of it):)
I try to be even-handed and I feel that I can be, simply because I've tried out most of the equipment that's out there. The problem is, there are a lot of people posting on forums who wax lyrical about the 'qualities' of their own kit, when all they are actually doing is quoting the suppliers' sometimes untrue statements and they don't actually have any basis for comparison.
I think it's called human nature...
 
Thanks! Very informative!

Shoot through umbrellas have the potential to produce similar light qualtity to softboxes simply because they can be placed as close to the subject as softboxes can, this is different to reflective umbrellas because reflective ones face the wrong way. But this doesn't matter to you, because for this job you won't be able to place them close anyway - so reflective umbrellas are a much better choice than shoot throughs, which will scatter light everywhere.
Umbrellas are very portable and very cheap. Softboxes would be fine too, but they are neither portable nor cheap and I feel that ones big enough for your purpose may be outside your budget.

This is what it says in the description for the Lencarta Starter Kit you posted:

# 2 x Umbrella Reflectors (MOD006)
# 1 x White reflective Umbrella (UMB001)
# 1 x Silver reflective Umbrella (UMB003)

Again, forgive my ignorance, but is there much difference in the reflection of white and silver umbrellas? And out of interest, what's the minimum size softboxes would you want for this type of event photography? Bigger than the 65x65cm and 53x53cm ones included in the D Lite 4 Kit I presume?

A better arrangement, if the venue is suitable, is to have one light with an umbrella off to one side and above a bit and to bounce the other light off of the white ceiling, using a standard or high intensity reflector. But of course, for that to work, you will need the ceiling to be both white and low enough.

And just one final question as I was a bit confused - when you say bounce it off the white ceiling, where does the reflector come into it? I mean, the flash head faces into the silver reflective umbrella, for example, which reflects the light onto the white ceiling, which then bounces the light back down onto the subjects, right? So where do you put the reflector? Or am I getting it wrong and you actually don't bounce off the ceiling, but off the reflector which is placed on the ceiling?
 
Again, forgive my ignorance, but is there much difference in the reflection of white and silver umbrellas?
Silver umbrellas are slightly more efficient in terms of light power but the light is a bit harsher
what's the minimum size softboxes would you want for this type of event photography? Bigger than the 65x65cm and 53x53cm ones included in the D Lite 4 Kit I presume?
Yes, 100cm will be about right
And just one final question as I was a bit confused - when you say bounce it off the white ceiling, where does the reflector come into it? I mean, the flash head faces into the silver reflective umbrella, for example, which reflects the light onto the white ceiling, which then bounces the light back down onto the subjects, right? So where do you put the reflector?
Confusing terminology...
A reflector can be a reflective surface, but it can also be the accessory that fits to the front of the flash head, which controls and directs the light. That's the type of reflector I meant. You wouldn't normally reflect light from an umbrella from a ceiling, it's unnecessary and most of the light would be lost in diffusion. An flash with a reflector pointing at the ceiling turns the ceiling into the light source, which produces soft and natural looking lighting.
 
Another vote here for the elemental kit from studio flash, they have just got a new range of G & J series and the G's would be perfect for you and are cheap but REALLY well made.

I am really pleased with my hybrid setup.
If you call and speak to them they will make you up a bespoke it with all the bits that you need..!

Mac
 
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