Cheap Effective DIY Light/Studio Setup - Suggestions please?

WelshNoob

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*Caveat - Just a novice starting out.

Just about to have my 2nd child and I wanted to take some nice 'studio' shots (in my dining room). I'm thinking I could fashion a background up relatively easy but I haven't got a clue about what low cost lighting solution I could use (obviously other than natural light) I currently don't have a separate flash (which I don't mind purchasing) I'm just wondering what else would make for an effective simple set up (soft boxes, umbrellas etc) Any guidance would be gratefully appreciated.
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

How would the continuous light kits with soft boxes perform against what you recommended?
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

How would the continuous light kits with soft boxes perform against what you recommended?
They won't.

You might get somewhere with still life, if you're prepared to put the work in, but there's nowhere near enough power for portraiture. Human beings insist on breathing and twitching and stuff, it makes low shutter speeds unworkable.
 
They won't.

You might get somewhere with still life, if you're prepared to put the work in, but there's nowhere near enough power for portraiture. Human beings insist on breathing and twitching and stuff, it makes low shutter speeds unworkable.

I agree. When subjects insist on breathing and things, it really winds me up. Can;t you just hold your breath for the hour? I mean, Come on!!! I bet Bailey never had to put up with this Cr*p
 
I agree. When subjects insist on breathing and things, it really winds me up. Can;t you just hold your breath for the hour? I mean, Come on!!! I bet Bailey never had to put up with this Cr*p
Bailey used to manage with continuous lighting, in fact I remember him using just a couple of photoflood lamps at one point, that's all that he had...

But bear in mind that back then there was little choice, and also the models were highly skilled professionals, and that poses were very static.

Things have changed, a lot, and studio flash is the equipment of choice for nearly everyone today, for good reason.
 
They won't.

You might get somewhere with still life, if you're prepared to put the work in, but there's nowhere near enough power for portraiture. Human beings insist on breathing and twitching and stuff, it makes low shutter speeds unworkable.

Makes perfect sense when someone who knows what they are talking about points it out. OK, potentially another silly question, how about the kits's I've seen with strobe lights?
 
Makes perfect sense when someone who knows what they are talking about points it out. OK, potentially another silly question, how about the kits's I've seen with strobe lights?
As you've not linked to a specific kit, I can only generalise.

The cheap ebay kits are OK as a start point, if you accept them as redundant kit. As soon as you realise what you're missing, there's virtually nothing of any value to keep.

The biggest issues (Garry would add more technical stuff):
  • A lack of control (usually only about 3 stops of control)
  • Built in reflectors make the lights less use inside softboxes and totally useless for beauty dishes
  • A lack of choice of modifiers, they have a non standard mount, meaning that you're more or less stuck with the softbox that comes in the box.

You'll realise that modifiers are much more important that the light source, so it's worth buying a single head kit from a reputable manufacturer, or going with Carl's suggestion of starting with a flashgun and doing some experimenting and reading.

books: The Speedlighters Handbook by Syl Arena, Light Science and Magic, and Joe McNally's The hotshoe diaries.

web: The strobist blog, Lencarta tutorials,
 
Thanks for the book suggestions Phil!

Without reading and from a basic setup point of view would 1 umbrella and a flashgun be worthwhile or would I need 2, one either side of the subject and me shooting from inbetween them?
 
As you're just beginning it's actually better for you to start with only one light as it simplifies things when learning and in a lot of cases you may find one light produces the results you want.

Umbrella's are fine, they tend to send light everywhere but you may see that as desirable (or not in a small environment) and a softbox isn't a bad idea as at the very least it'll give you more control. Definitely add a cheap 5 in 1 reflector to whatever you buy.
 
Thanks for the book suggestions Phil!

Without reading and from a basic setup point of view would 1 umbrella and a flashgun be worthwhile or would I need 2, one either side of the subject and me shooting from inbetween them?
One light is enough to start with, then you can add a reflector, or a 2nd light. But basically if you google single light portraits, you'll see what can be done if you add talent and imagination. Honestly though, read the books, or the blogs, a single light source is always the first thing you set up. The biggest mistake people make is switching on 3 or 4 lights then trying to make sense of the situation.

We always start with a keylight (even where it's the sun or a window) and then work the shadows to produce what we want, whether that means moving the light, or the subject or adding more light with reflectors or further lights, or removing some of the light with flags or ND filters.
 

Thanks redsnapper, I'd use one of these strobes with an umbrella right? What's the difference, advantages/disadvantages of the strobes, over a flash gun with the same umbrella? I know I'm coming over as a complete noob, and if I read what's been recommended I'm sure I wouldn't need to ask such basic questions.
 
Thanks redsnapper, I'd use one of these strobes with an umbrella right? What's the difference, advantages/disadvantages of the strobes, over a flash gun with the same umbrella? I know I'm coming over as a complete noob, and if I read what's been recommended I'm sure I wouldn't need to ask such basic questions.
Advantage:
More power

Disadvantage:
Tied to mains
Lack of available modifiers
Lack of power control

As a strobe, it's rubbish because the best things about using mains flash are negated:
Huge selection of modifiers
Fast recycling
Large amount of power control

As I said previously, you're better off with a starter kit from a reputable mfr. and if you can't run to that, a simple speedlight setup, which will also be useful for portability when you've collected loads of gear.
 
Thanks redsnapper, I'd use one of these strobes with an umbrella right? What's the difference, advantages/disadvantages of the strobes, over a flash gun with the same umbrella? I know I'm coming over as a complete noob, and if I read what's been recommended I'm sure I wouldn't need to ask such basic questions.

Specifically to that model it has more power and a modelling light, the modelling light will give you an idea of how things are going to look before firing the flash so they are quite useful especially for a beginner, power is a bit trickier as extra power allows you to tackle certain problems you otherwise couldn't easily (bounce the flash off the ceiling, work from a greater distance, overpower the sun etc) but the most common problem beginners face is they have too much power and cheap heads offer very little range of adjustment so that 180w max would end up as 45 if it's only 3 stops while a decent unit could be twice as powerful at 400w yet go down to 25w giving you more flexibility.

It's worth getting a flash that uses a standard modifier, one of the biggest strengths of a studio head is you can use a very wide array of modifiers (softboxes and the like) and that flash doesn't appear to offer that with the fixed reflector (which is also a problem as for a studio head the light will be relatively narrow like a flash gun while we normally want it to be very wide for things like large softboxes or beauty dishes). For a bit over double the cost you could get a second hand 2 head kit which uses a standard fitting and should serve you better.

Don't get too caught up in it though, light's light whether it's coming out of a £900 Profoto head or a £40 Neewer.
 
Thanks for all the replies, it's really helping. Just watching an 1 1/2hr presentation by Gavin Hoey called just one light.
 
Hi

I think I started out looking at lighting in the way you did (I mainly shoot our kids). I started off with a couple of CLS compatible (I shoot Nikon) TTL speed lights which was pretty versatile. Could use them outdoors for moody cloudy portraits (no hope of overpowering the sun with them though) and use them indoors with softbox/beauty dish modifiers.

I then got a couple of lencarta lights - great value and work really well for indoor portraits. Biggest practical advantage for me was the modelling light and recycling time compared to speed lights. I had a quick play with some speedlights and a softbox last night

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/th...ected-soft-box-worked-ok.546370/#post-6312677

I really missed the modelling light.

Another major advantage of the Lencarta lights (others are available, its just this is what I use) is the range of modifiers and spread of light in the modifiers. You can get similar for speedlights but you have to get specially adapted ones or modifiers to attach them (lencarta do a lovely solid one - I've had three cheaper ones which were less than solid)

Hope that helps

Shaheed
 
Advantage:
More power - TRUE

Disadvantage:
Tied to mains TRUE

Lack of available modifiers - FALSE
Lack of power control - FALSE

As a strobe, it's rubbish because the best things about using mains flash are negated: FALSE
Huge selection of modifiers - TRUE but there is are small selection of softboxes, octoboxes, brollys, snoots, barn doors, honeycombs that are available for the Neewer Strobe.
Fast recycling - 0.5 - 3 second at full power.
Large amount of power control - The Neewer Strobe has 4 Stops of control.

Hi Phil Do you have any evidence to show that Newer are not a reputable brand?

You are forgetting the OP asked for cheap lighting solution. I suppose if the OP asked for a suitable car for a learner you would probably recommend a Lamborghini Aventador
 
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Advantage:
More power - TRUE

Disadvantage:
Tied to mains TRUE

Lack of available modifiers - FALSE
Lack of power control - FALSE

As a strobe, it's rubbish because the best things about using mains flash are negated: FALSE
Huge selection of modifiers - TRUE but there is are small selection of softboxes, octoboxes, brollys, snoots, barn doors, honeycombs that are available for the Neewer Strobe.
Fast recycling - 0.5 - 3 second at full power.
Large amount of power control - The Neewer Strobe has 4 Stops of control.

Hi Phil Do you have any evidence to show that Newer are not a reputable brand?

You are forgetting the OP asked for cheap lighting solution. I suppose if the OP asked for a suitable car for a learner you would probably recommend a Lamborghini Aventador
I'll add some real facts to this discussion...

Neewer are in fact made by a reputable Company that also makes good equipment.
The Neewer is an old design that they bought 7 years ago when they bought the factory that made it, it was already several years old. No doubt they still continue it because there are a lot of people who won't spend money on better equipment, there is in fact a vast market for the cheapest lights.

The tooling for the case is however generic, several other (backstreet) workshops use it so the product appears in many guises, all are poor copies of poor copies...

It has a modelling lamp, but it's too dim to be much use

It doesn't have 4 stops of adjustment, it theoretically has 3 (full power to 1/8th) but the actuality is that most of these flashes don't actually adjust when you turn them down to more than half power, so in fact is has 2 stops.

It doesn't have fast recyclying, pretty much all other studio flash heads recycle between 1/5th and 1 second, this is important when photographing people.

True, it does have a limited range of softboxes available to fit, but the built in reflector prevents the softboxes from being lit evenly and fully.

Your analogy with a car may be valid. When my youngest son passed his test he bought a Ford Ka, he hated it but it was a good choice for him at the time. Difference is, it met the required safety standards, and it had control, i.e. it steered and it stopped. The cheapest lights are NOT made to EU safety standards and they don't stop or steer, by which I mean that they are very inconsistent in terms of colour temperature variation and flash energy variation, both throughout their limited adjustment range and from shot to shot. The effect of this is that beginners, who need decent tools to help them get reasonable results, find themselves working with tools that make their lives difficult.

You have your opinion, which you are fully entitled to, and I have mine.
My opinion is based on several years of experience in the lighting industry, and on the fact that I have actually visited the factories that make the lights.

My advice, for anyone who wants to start studio lighting on a very tight budget, is to start with 1 light and a reflector. You can get a perfectly good studio flash for just £110. If that's too much, then try to pick up a good second hand one, but I would never advise anyone to get one of the really cheap flashes, it's an economy too far.
 
Advantage:
More power - TRUE

Disadvantage:
Tied to mains TRUE

Lack of available modifiers - FALSE
Lack of power control - FALSE

As a strobe, it's rubbish because the best things about using mains flash are negated: FALSE
Huge selection of modifiers - TRUE but there is are small selection of softboxes, octoboxes, brollys, snoots, barn doors, honeycombs that are available for the Neewer Strobe.
Fast recycling - 0.5 - 3 second at full power.
Large amount of power control - The Neewer Strobe has 4 Stops of control.

Hi Phil Do you have any evidence to show that Newer are not a reputable brand?

You are forgetting the OP asked for cheap lighting solution. I suppose if the OP asked for a suitable car for a learner you would probably recommend a Lamborghini Aventador

I'm offering help based on my experience, I bought some of these cheap ebay lights, and controlling them compared to better lights is really rubbish. That's my opinion having used them and better flash heads. You clearly disagree with me, but offer no user experience to back it up. I'll put some meat on the bones:

Apart from recycling times. 3sec is similar to my flash guns, so I think that's slow. If I'm shooting in a studio I want much better than that. They say they have 4 stops of power control, but in testing mine were about 2 stops. A decent budget light generally has a tested 5 stops.

Your analogy is somewhat exaggerated, the OP asked about buying a Renault Twizy and I'm suggesting he'd be better off buying a Peugeot 107, and what he's actually losing out on by choosing the Twizy, despite the fact that it's still actually a working car.

Here it is practically, the softboxes suitable for those lights are crap, they soften the light 'sort of', they're not big enough or a soft enough light source (hotspots). But worse, the best thing about softboxes for portraiture is the ability to feather lights, which requires a deep lip (those softboxes have no lip) , the next best thing is adding a grid for shadow definition, again, not an option because there's no lip.

The next modifier I'd want would be a beauty dish, but you can't get one to fit. So even if you bodge a proper S fit adaptor (yes I did this) it really doesn't work properly because of the built in reflector, which puts the flash tube in the wrong place for the BD.

The next modifier would be a strip box - not available, you'd be into making your own.

Then there's the whole 'buy a 4 light setup like the pro's use' bull, which actually creates problems. You'll learn to light much better and easier by starting with a single light which will be easier to control in the first instance, then push you to really think about how light works as you go. So to finish the analogy, I'm suggesting buying a decent spec Focus for the same price as 3 Twizy's. Because I think it's a better use of the same funds, not because I think anyone should spend more than they have.
 
I brought a couple of 2nd hand Elicrion 500s about 25 years ago. That was my first set. At the time they were ok but only had two power settings, Full power and half power. I used one on full the other with half power with a couple of soft boxes. I got some very pleasing results but you soon realise the limitations and get frustrated with them. Get the best 2nd hand set you can afford. There are some real bargains to be had if you look around.
 
Read Bryan Peterson's 'understanding flash photography' book.

If you're heading down the off camera flash route, another great book is 'off camera flash' by Neil van Niekerk. Check out his website neilvn.com and planetneil.com.

The lencarta system is highly recommended. Calumet genesis 200/400 is the same system I believe? But for starting off, I decided on a cheap system - I've the yongnuo 560 III flashgun (about £48 on Amazon) and the Rf603 triggers (about £20 on Amazon). Just got the flashgun yest so haven't had a chance to try it. I'll be going for lencarta when I'm a bit more experienced
 
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