Car engine seized

markyboy.1967

markyboy.1967

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Mark Molloy
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Folks, some basic info required. My young daughter got a Vauxhall Corsa on PCP(3 years). She had it booked in for an MOT and service as per the plan she took with the car. A few days before it was due a service the car cut out and wouldnt restart. Arnold Clark picked the car up and told her a few days later the engine was seized. They said the timing belt was breaking up but hadnt snapped. They offered a 25% discount. She got onto Vauxhall as per advice but they refused any help at all and closed the case. I believe this is a very well known wet belt issue with them breaking up and then snapping. I can only guess at the moment that it has blocked the oil pump and seized the engine. Arnold Clark said there is nothing she could have done and it wasnt her fault but Vauxhall ate having none of it. Now the service advisor has moved from Arnold Clark and now were are being told that my daughter shouldnt have been told it wasnt her fault and nothing Arnold Clark can do.

My daughter has now gone to the ombudman to get a resolution. She has continued paying the car even though its been off the road now for 5 months. Her contract of 3 years finishes next year.

Any advice on how to proceed? Can she give the car back in current condition as she is over 2/3rds of her contract?

She just doesnt have the money for a new engine and wants this over with as soon as possible. Thanks.
 
A quick thought in regard to 'making a claim' for more than a token gesture of contribution?

Was the it brand new when purchased?

Or was it pre-owned?

In either case does she have a full (ideally dealer serviced) documented service history?

Such 'full serviced history' can be key to ensuring a better outcome NB how come the original service guy said "not your fault" but 'they' now say the opposite.? How is the drivers fault if a key component fails (on the above proviso that it has been kept serviced according to the manufacturer recommendations!)?
 
Box Brownie said:
A quick thought in regard to 'making a claim' for more than a token gesture of contribution?

Was the it brand new when purchased?

Or was it pre-owned?

In either case does she have a full (ideally dealer serviced) documented service history?

Such 'full serviced history' can be key to ensuring a better outcome NB how come the original service guy said "not your fault" but 'they' now say the opposite.? How is the drivers fault if a key component fails (on the above proviso that it has been kept serviced according to the manufacturer recommendations!)?
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It was just over a year old when she got it. Full dealer history. Arnold Clark tech told the service advisor that there was nothing my daughter could have done and she gad no way of knowing. New service advisor says she shouldn't have been told that as its not for them to speculate. Service record up to day minus the one it was booked for the following week.
 
I can empathize with this story about a year ago we had our C3 serviced at about 80k miles it had over average miles as i had used it a lot up and down the country doing lots of contract work for HMPS , car was running superb, all the servicing on the ball, always went with the best oils/approved by Citroen.

went to collect it next day was told when changing the oil wouldn't prime when fresh oil in, wouldn't pull into the filter.
the tech had to fill the oil filter and prime the pathways, he suggested it would be the wet belt falling apart and blocking the oil pickup and filler etc.

long story short he just said you need this sorting like now, so £650 later and 3 days , new wet belt fitted and all the oil pathways cleaned, pickup etc sump off and it was sorted he said when he got in there it was this close to siezing..
 
Was the car in full manufacturer warranty or within the time/distance travelled wet belt change interval with a full and on time service history when the wet belt failed?
 
srichards said:
Was the car in full manufacturer warranty or within the time/distance travelled wet belt change interval with a full and on time service history when the wet belt failed?
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Fully serviced per manufactures instructions at main dealer then arnold clark. Was due a service a week after the engine seized( was booked in to have service done as she gad a service plan in place). Vauxhall wanting nothing to do with it. Arnold Clark said they would pay 25%. They gave said if the wet belt had snapped then it would have been covered but not with the belt breaking up— which happen before it snaps, they think by saying this it removes blame.
 
Just over a year old when you bought it and it's failed at roughly two year in? Sounds to me like a case of the belt system not being fit for purpose. But is it worth the fight? I believe if you've passed 50% of the payments you can hand the car back to the finance company (not the dealer). I'd probably try that route and never go near a wet belt again.

I'm not sure if this helps: https://www.stellantis.com/en/contacts/puretech-compensation-platform
 
gman said:
Just over a year old when you bought it and it's failed at roughly two year in? Sounds to me like a case of the belt system not being fit for purpose. But is it worth the fight? I believe if you've passed 50% of the payments you can hand the car back to the finance company (not the dealer). I'd probably try that route and never go near a wet belt again.

I'm not sure if this helps: https://www.stellantis.com/en/contacts/puretech-compensation-platform
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Im on holiday at the moment so cant check. Think car was around 20-22 months old when she got it. Was serviced by Arnold Clark and was due another when it seized( im sure it was the following week). She took on a 3 year deal. Now over 50% of contract done. Car has sat for months whilst she tries to sort it out and continues making payment.
 
I would take advice as Graham said on just handing the car back to the finance company as its not fit for purpose
Its not good that Vauxhall do not want to know as its a poor design
 
I would get some advice from Citizens Advice Bureau or solicitor before doing anything like handing the car back and stop paying as that may impact credit ratings etc. (not that I know).
Hope things work out for her.
 
Re John's advice above to go to a solicitor. I had a lot of problems with family and had to have a lot of solicitor involvement and the cost was nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be and they removed a lot of stress too.

Hope all this can be sorted soon Mark.

I'd avoid wet belts at all costs, there just seem to be too many horror stories.
 
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gman said:
Just over a year old when you bought it and it's failed at roughly two year in? Sounds to me like a case of the belt system not being fit for purpose. But is it worth the fight? I believe if you've passed 50% of the payments you can hand the car back to the finance company (not the dealer). I'd probably try that route and never go near a wet belt again.

I'm not sure if this helps: https://www.stellantis.com/en/contacts/puretech-compensation-platform
Click to expand...
As far as I'm aware the car has to be returned in good condition so this wouldn't be possible while the car is in a failed state.

On what basis are Vauxhall refusing any contribution, are they claiming she drove with a warning light on or something?

I'd recommend trying to find a big Vauxhall forum to get specific advice on what approach people have had success with especially if the car has a full Vauxhall service history.

I have a workmate who bought a four year old Vauxhall Grandland with the Peugeot Puretech 1.2 engine which showed an oil pressure warning, he stopped the car and had it towed to the garage who claimed the belt had started breaking up and blocked the oil pick up. They cleaned out the engine, replaced the belt and returned the car (I think it was off the road for about a month) and the car ran for a short time before showing the same error light. So again the car was towed and they were investigating an issue with the oil pressure sensor, I can't remember what they repaired that time before the car was returned. After another short duration the car conked out and now had a severe misfire which they couldn't find the cause of so the car was towed again back to the original garage. They eventually diagnosed a problem with a valve which was replaced but the car still wasn't right so it had all the injectors sent away to be checked although they were ok so they then replaced a camshaft which resolved the issue, the car was behaving normally with no faults so he decided to get shot of it.

I did ask if he'd pursued it with Vauxhall but I think they were claiming because the car had a single non-Vauxhall service then they must have used the wrong oil and that was causing all the problems although I don't think there had been any testing to establish that. I can't believe how much mechanical work a car less than five years old needed and both the cost and inconvenience he suffered as well. I've seen claims there's huge amounts of these engines and as long as they're serviced correctly there's no issues but I'm not convinced but even then, they don't seem to offer much if any advantage (neither the increased fuel economy or longer belt durations seem to apply in practice) but minor problems can end up destroying the engine. To me that doesn't seem fit for purpose but somehow Stellantis seem to be getting away with it.
 
I know it doesn't help the OP, but in the past few years both my kids and the (now) wife have all started driving. My mum also bought a little auto car (because my stepdad had to give up driving) - of every car they were all considering, the first thing we looked into was cambelt, wet belt or chain.

I hope this gets resolved for you.
 
JohnMcL7 said:
To me that doesn't seem fit for purpose but somehow Stellantis seem to be getting away with it.
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Not just V'hall. AFAIK Ford, Toyota and VW also use this system in at least some models.
 
woof woof said:
Not just V'hall. AFAIK Ford, Toyota and VW also use this system in at least some models.
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Yes that’s correct although as far as I know the Aygo is the only Toyota that uses a wet belt , the Aygo is made in the same factory as similar Pergeot and Citroen cars
Our Yaris has chain driven cams the same as Japanese motorcycles
 
The discussion of type of cam belt/chain got me thinking.......

I have a Kuga 1.5 (150ps) 4 cylinder Eco Boost and found this in a specs pdf.

"Low friction Belt-in-Oil with dynamic tensioner"

So, a wet belt system! I am not sure what the replacement cycle is but it is a 69 plate and it now has a little over 20k on clock.
FWIW it uses barely any oil between its annual service and it looks on the dipstick as clear as when changed.
 
LCPete said:
Yes that’s correct although as far as I know the Aygo is the only Toyota that uses a wet belt , the Aygo is made in the same factory as similar Pergeot and Citroen cars
Our Yaris has chain driven cams the same as Japanese motorcycles
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IFAIK Proace people carrier with 1.2 ltr engine too. No idea what that's based on though. I think what makes this issue more widespread is that manufacturers share so many parts these days.
 
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Box Brownie said:
The discussion of type of cam belt/chain got me thinking.......

I have a Kuga 1.5 (150ps) 4 cylinder Eco Boost and found this in a specs pdf.

"Low friction Belt-in-Oil with dynamic tensioner"

So, a wet belt system! I am not sure what the replacement cycle is but it is a 69 plate and it now has a little over 20k on clock.
FWIW it uses barely any oil between its annual service and it looks on the dipstick as clear as when changed.
Click to expand...

I think a wet belt replacement is pretty similar intervals to a 'dry' belt - ie 10 years or 100,000m or whatever. The cost is much higher though.

It's the regular & correct maintenance that is much more important.
 
JohnMcL7 said:
As far as I'm aware the car has to be returned in good condition so this wouldn't be possible while the car is in a failed state.
Click to expand...

Good point, although I believe you can still return it but the finance company will most likely seek to recoup the repair bill. I suppose a chance could be taken to then fight this instead.

From AI:

"Yes, you can usually hand back a car on PCP after paying 50% of the total amount payable, even if the engine has failed, due to the Voluntary Termination (VT) rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, you remain responsible for any damage beyond fair wear and tear, and the finance company may seek costs for the engine failure if it's deemed your fault or due to neglect."

The key point I would take from this is the part in bold.

However, upon thinking further I would be more inclined to get the car fixed, hand back to the finance company and submit a claim to court for the repair bill as there's probably a higher chance of winning that either due to the facts of the case, or them not bothering to defend it (the latter is just a guess).
 
LeeRatters said:
I think a wet belt replacement is pretty similar intervals to a 'dry' belt - ie 10 years or 100,000m or whatever. The cost is much higher though.

It's the regular & correct maintenance that is much more important.
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mine was 80k and 8 years and it wasn't planned it was emergency
if i could offer advice just do it at about 6-7 years and accept it
 
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andya700 said:
IMHO, the worst automotive designs in the past twenty years have been - wet cambelts and dual mass flywheels. The motor industry are well aware of these problems, but will try to sweep them under the carpet and say they are very rare failures - they are not.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka0l5G3tqaE
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Re: dual mass flywheel problems

Some years back, I chose to get a Subaru Legacy Estate as my company car. It was a great drivers car and it's 4WD got me through some nasty weather on more than one occasion.

My MD at the time never leased cars but bought them on finance and we typically kept them for 3-4 years. IIRC the Subaru was about 2.5 years old and I had done around 60,000 miles.

I was creeping along in heavy traffic, on the A322 where it crosses the M3, and noticed a slight change in the behaviour of the clutch pedal.

Next with a fairly loud bang the clutch pedal went full travel and 'stuck' there!!!! No recall now as to how but I got her into 1st gear and limped into a safe area out of the traffic.

I got it recovered to home.......and IIRC got it taken the next day to the regular dealer that serviced it for me.

The report was that the dual mass flywheel had destroyed itself, the thrust bearing & clutch plates and a bit of shrapnel had punched a hole in the gearbox bell casing of the clutch assembly.

Long story, short, we came to an agreement with the dealer and Subaru UK that we paid 1/3 of the cost of repairs and they paid the rest.

However, this arrangement was on the basis of using a single mass (old style) flywheel......IIRC I asked what effect that would have on the performance and was reassured that it would(should?) be unnoticeable? If we had chosen the get a DMF fitted that would have added about £250 to our contribution. As the car would be sold on within about 6- 9 months the MD accepted the terms......not too sure now but I think they provided a courtesy car for the 2 weeks it took to complete the repair as not all parts were immediately available.

PS it may have my imagination but I did notice some difference in the performance characteristics.
 
In one my parts jobs I sold a lot of DMF replacements kits, no one came back and wanted to change back from ‘normal’ to DMF, manufacturers fad that went wrong.
 
For all its faults, GM used to look after its customers. Network Q helped me when my Saab 9-5s turbo packed up - the car was 6 years old and 8 months into the warranty period when the wastegate pin sheared - Vauxhall paid this in full, this was on the Saab developed A20NFT engine used in Vauxhalls too. Even when I had Vauxhalls I had no issues with servicing and customer service. I felt the service drop off markedly once GM sold Vauxhall to PSA.
 
As a matter of interest and a bit off topic m but as dual mass flywheels came into it , my last CRV used to suffer with the clutch pedal sinking to the floor , then worked ok for a good while after lifting it and it would then happen again .. took it to my local Honda garage and the comment was , despite the car having a full service history, the one thing that never gets changed or serviced is the clutch fluid . .they drained mine and replaced it and it cured the problem .. other garages wanted to replace the clutch at around £900 instead it cost £10 to replace the fluid . This was the first time I used that Honda garage but they now get all my work
 
In 2012, our Skoda's DMF gave up the ghost, quite spectacularly when I was on the way to have the solid flywheel/clutch kit fitted. That was when the car had 93K on it, it now has 221K on it with the solid flywheel modification, very smooth as well.
 
I'm not looking forward to the day when my DMF or clutch needs replacing... :oops: :$


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